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quite the odd idea

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#1 Fireshot

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 07:33 PM

Here are my plans for an extreemly far-fetched idea for a nerf gun. The Nerf Surpressing Tactical Barrage. My scanner is broken so the pictures suck. I will be attempting to build this within a few weeks, once I get some bigger pvc and other parts.

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This is the launcher. Basically a giant air tank with a wide barrel on the end. The barrel and largest pieces of the tank will be 1 and a half inch pvc. The design will probably change as I get to building it. The barrel size will stay the same.

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The ordinance. It is a 1 1/4 inch pvc endcap glued onto an inch or so of 1 1/4 pvc. The other endcap is not glued on so that it can be pulled off when a string attaching the cap to the launcher is pulled taunt. It will probably be sprayed with cooking spray to keep it loose. The ammo, 1/2 fbr, will be weighted down by 2 or 3 BBs per piece, so they have less chance of being blown off course by wind.

This system will hopefully enable a nerfer to cover an area with foam in a short time. It obviously wouldn't work in an area with lots of trees, or against any sort of cover with a roof.

Questions? Comments? Flames? I know this idea is absurd and probably not efficiant, but I need something to do in my free time and this is it.

Edited by ‡Fireshot‡, 10 February 2007 - 07:36 PM.

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#2 Retiate

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 07:44 PM

I'm not quite sure I get the projectile. Does the gun just shoot a whole bunch of darts, like a shotgun? Or does is shoot a grenade projectile, which breaks open and showers darts in an area?
I had an idea of making a sort of mortar that would shoot darts the same way I explained above, with the large projectile containing several darts. Only I was going to have it look like a large tube with a bipod. Of course, like you mentioned, it wouldn't be very helpful in a war, but I would probably just play different game types, like assault, with it.

So how big is this going to be? It looks like, according to the picture, about 6" long?

I think it looks like it could be pretty cool. Keep us updated on your progress, I'm curious as to see how this comes out.
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#3 Fireshot

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 08:53 PM

The gun shoots a grenade-like projectile, which is attached to the gun by twine or something of the sort. When the twine goes taunt, the bottom of the grenade projectile is pulled off, and the darts fall out.
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#4 Retiate

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 10:24 PM

Whoa. I never even thought of that. That's a really good idea. You should install some kind of switch that locks the twine, so you can adjust when the darts fly out. The only real problem here is the reload time. It would take forever.
It would be really good at clearing corners or rooms, you'd just peak around the corner, fire it off, and go back around the wall. The twine could just fly around the corner while you stay under cover.
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#5 WratH

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 10:47 PM

That is a pretty cool idea, I hope you pull it off.
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#6 Carbon

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 11:58 PM

Some thoughts.

1) I understand what you're looking to do, but I don't see how you'd get any kind of spread with this ammo. Essentially, your ammo cannister will have a forward trajectory, but the rear of the cannister will fall off. I could see the darts falling out backwards in sort of a clump, but it would have a direct arc to the floor. I could see you having more of a spread if you used this as some sort of air powered catapult, where you filled a cup with foam, and let air power fling it forward (still keeping the cup tethered)...but not from the back.

2) This ammo will be heavy. You're going to need a lot of pressure to get it to do more than a lazy arc. More pressure than that, and you're getting to dangerous levels, because...

3) You're talking about sending a large chunk of PVC flying through the air. Padded or not, that could do some damage, to either people or property.

Edited by Carbon, 10 February 2007 - 11:59 PM.

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#7 Retiate

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:03 AM

1) I understand what you're looking to do, but I don't see how you'd get any kind of spread with this ammo. Essentially, your ammo cannister will have a forward trajectory, but the rear of the cannister will fall off.


I think his projectile will open a hatch in the front when the back piece is pulled. At least that's what I thought it would do.

3) You're talking about sending a large chunk of PVC flying through the air. Padded or not, that could do some damage, to either people or property.


That would be quite a problem. A large piece of PVC would do some severe damage to someone who got nailed in the face by it.
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#8 Fireshot

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:32 AM

Ratiate: I would never use this inside. The grenade would be covered in foam, and I will be downsizing it so it is less massive.

Carbon: I've been working out where to have the twing attached to the grenade so it torques it into a forward rotation and dumps the ammo. I am downsizing the grenade so it will have less mass, thus fly farther with less force applied to it. I will not make this or use it until I create a projectile that has low to nein chance of injuring anyone hit by it.
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#9 Carbon

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 09:18 AM

Carbon: I've been working out where to have the twing attached to the grenade so it torques it into a forward rotation and dumps the ammo. I am downsizing the grenade so it will have less mass, thus fly farther with less force applied to it. I will not make this or use it until I create a projectile that has low to nein chance of injuring anyone hit by it.

If the string were attached at the front, then the string would pull the cannister into a spin, finally pulling off the cap when it got taut. Maybe. Even then, you'd have the issue of trying to get a good seal around your cannister with a piece of cord going past the seal.

I'd be curious to see what you could do with this as a sort of air powered linear catapult. Remove the front cover of your cannister, and load: your ammo cannister would move forward, but would be stopped before it left the gun, letting the ammo fly forward and spread.

Davidbowie build a version of the KISS that was like this; it used a shell for the ammo that went forward and didn't leave the gun, but it used bungees and was single shot per shell.

Edited by Carbon, 11 February 2007 - 09:18 AM.

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#10 Fireshot

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:08 PM

If the string were attached at the front, then the string would pull the cannister into a spin, finally pulling off the cap when it got taut. Maybe. Even then, you'd have the issue of trying to get a good seal around your cannister with a piece of cord going past the seal.


The canaster would be put into the barrel with the string end out, so the string wouldn't create sealing issues.

I'd be curious to see what you could do with this as a sort of air powered linear catapult. Remove the front cover of your cannister, and load: your ammo cannister would move forward, but would be stopped before it left the gun, letting the ammo fly forward and spread.


So, I shoot it up without the cap on? So when the string goes taunt, it stops the canister's movement, but the momentum that the foam has gained from being in the canister would keep it moving outward. That may be a better idea. If I were to impliment that, I would have to attach the twine inside the barrel. I would probably drill a hole in the barrel, put the twine through it, and epoxy it in place/cover the hole.

Davidbowie build a version of the KISS that was like this; it used a shell for the ammo that went forward and didn't leave the gun, but it used bungees and was single shot per shell.


An air powered one would be less complicated in construction, but would probably take more priming time. [sarcasm]Everybody loves pumping.[/sarcasm] Again, I may try this if the NSTB idea doesn't work out, or if/when I complete the NSTB.

I am going to try and get the pvc and fittings today, but it may have to wait another weekend.

Edited by ‡Fireshot‡, 11 February 2007 - 01:12 PM.

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#11 Retiate

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 01:44 PM

I'd be curious to see what you could do with this as a sort of air powered linear catapult. Remove the front cover of your cannister, and load: your ammo cannister would move forward, but would be stopped before it left the gun, letting the ammo fly forward and spread.


Me and my friends were thinking of a gun with that exact way of firing. We were going to make shells, each containing multiple darts, and it would fire like that, then the shell could be turned and pulled out the front of the barrel, and another shell could be loaded.


So, I shoot it up without the cap on? So when the string goes taunt, it stops the canister's movement, but the momentum that the foam has gained from being in the canister would keep it moving outward. That may be a better idea. If I were to impliment that, I would have to attach the twine inside the barrel. I would probably drill a hole in the barrel, put the twine through it, and epoxy it in place/cover the hole.

I am going to try and get the pvc and fittings today, but it may have to wait another weekend.


I think it might be easier to just have a stopper at the end of the barrel instead of some sort of twine. The only thing I can think of that could keep from breaking under that amount of pressure would be a cable. You could have the normal, airtight barrel, then at the end have a stopper then put cuts in the sides so the air can leak out.
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#12 Fireshot

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 02:16 PM

I think it might be easier to just have a stopper at the end of the barrel instead of some sort of twine. The only thing I can think of that could keep from breaking under that amount of pressure would be a cable. You could have the normal, airtight barrel, then at the end have a stopper then put cuts in the sides so the air can leak out.


If I did that, I would have a shotgun, which this idea is not going to be turned into. Also, twine can hold a small pvc canister being thrown through the air by a hundred or more psi fairly easily. I wouldn't use twine if it couldn't hold. Cable would be too expensive also, this is supposed to be fairly cheap and easy to build.

The purpose for having the canister attached to the string is so it can be thrown up, and have the foam fall down on top of the enemy, possibly bypassing any cover the enemy is behind.
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#13 Retiate

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 03:07 PM

Also, twine can hold a small pvc canister being thrown through the air by a hundred or more psi fairly easily. I wouldn't use twine if it couldn't hold.


Whoa. I didn't know that. I guess I really underestimated it. How thick is this twine you are going to use?

The purpose for having the canister attached to the string is so it can be thrown up, and have the foam fall down on top of the enemy, possibly bypassing any cover the enemy is behind.


Ohhh. I see. How many darts are going to be in each canister? I'm guessing quite a bit for this to be effective.
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#14 murakumo32

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 10:49 PM

Why don't you make the canister out of foam insulater? Adding a small weight of it would be like make it a large stefan that holds smaller stefans. If you cover the weight, it might not hurt if it hits someone.
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#15 Fireshot

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 11:12 PM

Why don't you make the canister out of foam insulater? Adding a small weight of it would be like make it a large stefan that holds smaller stefans. If you cover the weight, it might not hurt if it hits someone.
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I think I will do that. I bought the pvc today so construction will start sometime this week.
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#16 sporkboyofjustice

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:27 PM

Safety concerns pop to my mind but assuming you don't shoot it at someone you have a heavy piece of PVC flying through the air and then falling to the ground. I figure a parachute can be inside the shell and endcap parts so they would gently float to the ground. You do need a certain amount of distance for a parachute to catch but I'm not sure what that is.

From my model rocket days it always seemed to be 5 ft more that I had but maybe that was just me. Does anyone know formulas for a falling object with a parachute, what size is needed for a given mass, rules of thumb? I've always wondered about that.
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#17 Fireshot

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 04:51 PM

Safety concerns pop to my mind but assuming you don't shoot it at someone you have a heavy piece of PVC flying through the air and then falling to the ground. I figure a parachute can be inside the shell and endcap parts so they would gently float to the ground. You do need a certain amount of distance for a parachute to catch but I'm not sure what that is.

From my model rocket days it always seemed to be 5 ft more that I had but maybe that was just me. Does anyone know formulas for a falling object with a parachute, what size is needed for a given mass, rules of thumb? I've always wondered about that.


I was thinking about the safeness(is this a word?) of it at school today. A parachute would be too unreliable and too complicated to build a release for the simplicity I'm going for. A foam projectile wouldn't work because, even if I weighted it, it wouldn't have enough momentum and too high inertia to be launched high enough for the gun to work the way I want it to. I have a few other designs in my head for a foam ordinance weapon, I'll post them if anyone is interested.
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