90 replies to this topic

[Megamannt92]

Methinks there are 5 colors, not 4. Unless gray is the same as white?

Yea i just noticed that there is a silver one. The Wii is coming out with the same colors i checked Gamespot. Exactly the same.

[TED]

Here’s another Fact: 40,000 children die every day from Malnutrition, Starvation, or Hunger-related diseases.

Through the church I belong to, there is a program call Kids Against Hunger. Volunteers take Rice, Soy, dried veggies and some flavoring and mix it together. It is shipped to 3rd world countries and other impoverished areas where it is mixed with water and then cooked. It turns into a kind of gruel/soup stuff that actually tastes pretty good. Each serving costs about 23 cents. And the really sad part is that most of the starving people’s stomachs have shrunken down so much that they can barely eat half of a serving.
e.

So why don’t you all get off your gluttonous self-centered asses and do something to help someone for once!

If you think that all the money we put towards video games should go to the poor. How come you play nerf wouldn't that money be better spent on 3rd world countries. One longshot could feed like 130 people you know. Don't preach to me that I should help the needy. The needy need to learn how to help themselves.

[cooldood31]

I almost completely agree with Elf about the amount of money people spend on video games.

Interesting fact is that in the last generation (Xbox ps2 and game cube) over all ps2 controlled almost 70% of gaming market. [I am almost 100% sure that you are incorrect. Possibly 70% of the console gaming market, but there is no way that they domintated the ENTIRE gaming market.]

I'm not sure about percentages, but I do know that the PS2 is the top selling console to this date.

Fact: foot balls (American, and rest of the world-ian) and other sport balls can all be found for under $20. [So, what are you saying, that anyone who owns a next-gen system is a fat ass? I may not be skinny, but I'm sure as hell not lazy, I find time to be active and play games.]

I think what elf is trying to say here is that you could be playing real football for far less than it costs to play a digital version of it. Personally, football isn't my sport, but I would still much rather play a real game of it with my friends than sit on a couch pushing buttons on a piece of plastic and pretend to play.

If you think that all the money we put towards video games should go to the poor. How come you play nerf wouldn't that money be better spent on 3rd world countries. One longshot could feed like 130 people you know. Don't preach to me that I should help the needy. The needy need to learn how to help themselves.

I don't think Elf meant that you shouldn't spend any money on yourself, just that you should try to think about others too. And as for the needy learning to help themselves, that is the most selfish inconsiderate comment I've heard in months. How can people learn to help them selves if no one teaches them? How are the helpless supposed to help themselves? Not every country is as rich as Britain, Canada, or the United States, nor as gluttonous. Canada uses the most amount of energy per capita than any other country. The United States has a mere 5% of the worlds population, but uses over 25% of the worlds ressources. Being as rich as we are, telling the less fortunate that they need to learn how to help themselves is just greedy, selfcentered, and pathetic.

Here's another Fact: 40,000 children die every day from Malnutrition, Starvation, or Hunger-related diseases. [And I'm sure you give your $20 to Greenpeace or whomever every year? I take time out of my life to build for Habitat for Humanity, and I'm sure other gamers perform community service. Sure, not all of them, but I'm really not sure what you're saying here; just because we spend 500$ on a vid game sys means we don't donate to people to save lives? I gave to Tsunami survivors, Katrina suvivors. I will not however donate to food for starving kids. I donate once and awhile to science to find cures for diseases plauging Africa and the rest of the world, but if I save one kid, 39,999 could still die, so what's the point.]

Elf isn't saying that nobody else tries to help others, he's just saying that there are people out there starving and, we, as a society, do very little compared to what we could be doing to help them. People spend so much money on themselves and try to justify it by saying "well I gave to this charity" ot "I helped these people" the point is that people could be helping more. As for the children that you can't help there's a story I once heard:

[indent=1]'A man was walking along the beach one afternoon as the tide was going out, when he saw a boy throwing starfish into the water "What are you doing?" the man asked.
"When the tide goes out, the starfish get stranded on shore and die, so I'm throwing them back into the water." responded the boy.
"But there are so many, you can't possibly save them all. You can't make a difference." said the man. The boy then picked up a starfish off the shore and said,
"It makes a difference to this one." and threw it back into the ocean.'


I'm amazed at how defensive and offended people get when others don't sugarcoat every one of their phrases, or point out faults.

Edit:

So why don't you all get off your gluttonous self-centered asses and do something to help someone for once![Just unnecessary]

Is it really unecessary, or was this phrase have a long time coming

Edited by cooldood31, 19 November 2006 - 12:17 PM.

[m15399]

Kill sports games, kill EA, and kill Microsoft (free Bungie!!).


Wii all deh way.

[Rambo]

Newsflash douchebag; in the past 5 years I've given more to charities and other funds that are for the good of other people then I've spent on videogames. Do you want me to give every penny I make? Let's give to people we don't know who are probably going to die anyway, and then GIVE SOME MORE!

No one said that PS2 didn't sell the most, but I don't agree with the fact that "they controlled 70% of the market" or whatever.

Yes that fucking blatant generalization was totally unnecessary, as was most of your post. Who gives a shit if you'd rather play real football? You can't play real football all day. You can't do it with your disabled friends who want to feel like they can actually play, if videogames is as close to playing as they can get, you might as well play with them.

Again, your United States comment is an unnecessary GENERALIZATION. If I give 50% of what I make to charity or whomever you want me to give to and other pompous assholes who make 10x me decide to give nothing, how does that make me look? Bad. Gamers could be quite generous as a whole. Until you find a fucking resource and cite it and it shows that gamers as a whole donate less than the United States as a whole, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[cooldood31]

Newsflash douchebag;

I love you too.

in the past 5 years I've given more to charities and other funds that are for the good of other people then I've spent on videogames. Do you want me to give every penny I make? Let's give to people we don't know who are probably going to die anyway, and then GIVE SOME MORE!

I never said you don't give anything, now did I? And about not spending money on yourself, to quote myself: "I don't think Elf meant that you shouldn't spend any money on yourself". And what's wrong with giving money to people that we don't know who are probably going to die anyway? If we can help to improve the quality of someone else, why does it matter if we know them, or if they die shortly afterwards?

No one said that PS2 didn't sell the most, but I don't agree with the fact that "they controlled 70% of the market" or whatever.

As I said, I don't know the numbers.

Yes that fucking blatant generalization was totally unnecessary, as was most of your post.

So what you're saying is that we should just sit around while thousands of people are starving and dying? While that's very decent of you

Who gives a shit if you'd rather play real football? You can't play real football all day. You can't do it with your disabled friends who want to feel like they can actually play, if videogames is as close to playing as they can get, you might as well play with them.

Again, your United States comment is an unnecessary GENERALIZATION. If I give 50% of what I make to charity or whomever you want me to give to and other pompous assholes who make 10x me decide to give nothing, how does that make me look? Bad. Gamers could be quite generous as a whole.

If you didn't notice, I also mentioned Canada using more energy per capita, and I said as a country. I didn't say "RAMBO, you greedy SOB, quit using all the F***ING ressources!" I said that as a society, we are very well off and should be doing more. If you are already giving a lot, you are doing your part.

Until you find a fucking resource and cite it and it shows that gamers as a whole donate less than the United States as a whole, SHUT THE FUCK UP

Nice day to you too.

In closing, I'd like to refer to my previous post and say: I'm amazed at how defensive and offended people get when others don't sugarcoat every one of their phrases, or point out faults.

[Rambo]

in the past 5 years I've given more to charities and other funds that are for the good of other people then I've spent on videogames. Do you want me to give every penny I make? Let's give to people we don't know who are probably going to die anyway, and then GIVE SOME MORE!

I never said you don't give anything, now did I? And about not spending money on yourself, to quote myself: "I don't think Elf meant that you shouldn't spend any money on yourself". And what's wrong with giving money to people that we don't know who are probably going to die anyway? If we can help to improve the quality of someone else, why does it matter if we know them, or if they die shortly afterwards?[Donate to whomever you wish, scientific study, in my mind at least, is more important than people who are starving. I'm not going to state any numbers because, quite frankly, I don't know any, but I will bet any amount of money that there are 5 or more diseases out there that kill more annually than hunger does.]

Yes that fucking blatant generalization was totally unnecessary, as was most of your post.

So what you're saying is that we should just sit around while thousands of people are starving and dying? While that's very decent of you[Not sure what you mean here, it doesn't relate to that line of my post.]

Who gives a shit if you'd rather play real football? You can't play real football all day. You can't do it with your disabled friends who want to feel like they can actually play, if videogames is as close to playing as they can get, you might as well play with them.

[Did you forget something here? Again, I am confused, but I don't think there is really anything to say here]

Again, your United States comment is an unnecessary GENERALIZATION. If I give 50% of what I make to charity or whomever you want me to give to and other pompous assholes who make 10x me decide to give nothing, how does that make me look? Bad. Gamers could be quite generous as a whole.

If you didn't notice, I also mentioned Canada using more energy per capita, and I said as a country. I didn't say "RAMBO, you greedy SOB, quit using all the F***ING ressources!" I said that as a society, we are very well off and should be doing more. If you are already giving a lot, you are doing your part.[I agree with you about the US being greedy as a whole, but why are you posting about it here?]

Until you find a fucking resource and cite it and it shows that gamers as a whole donate less than the United States as a whole, SHUT THE FUCK UP

Nice day to you too.[Stay with me here. We are posting in a video game thread. Generalizations about people have been made. What kind of people? Video gamers. So, I ask you, if generalizations have been made about video gamers as a whole, and those generalizations false, I think I have the right, as a gamer, to defend myself and the groups of gamers I belong to.]

In closing, I'd like to refer to my previous post and say: I'm amazed at how defensive and offended people get when others don't sugarcoat every one of their phrases, or point out faults.[I am not offended by the ignorance of others. Some who have posted in this thread must be in heaven(If you don't get this, too bad). I don't care if you sugarcoat anything, as either way I would not be offended. All I ask is that you represent facts, not your incorrect views.]

[elf avec gun]

Wow…
So much negative attitude towards helping others…
Why?
I’m not saying that anyone here HAS to go out and take their money and spend some of it to save people, I am merely saying that this would be the right thing to do. Don’t get me wrong here, I have found video games to be quite entertaining; but my life doesn’t revolve around which video game I’m going to buy next, or how many hours I get to spend playing them.



[quote] I will not however donate to food for starving kids. I donate once and awhile to science to find cures for diseases plauging Africa and the rest of the world, but if I save one kid, 39,999 could still die, so what's the point. [/quote]

Every child you save is one child that wont die. Have you ever thought that maybe that one child you saved will go on to be the person who comes up with the cure for one of those diseases?

[quote] Here's another Fact: 40,000 children die every day from Malnutrition, Starvation, or Hunger-related diseases. [quote] [And I'm sure you give your $20 to Greenpeace or whomever every year? [/quote] [/quote]
First off I would like to state how much greenpeace pisses me off! …. Greenpeace REALLY REALLY Pisses me of!!! Ok I voiced my opinion. I feel better now. I would also like to point out that Greenpeace isn’t a charity.

Second: Although I no longer have a job (I quit right before school started) But when I do make money, I make it a point to take 50 percent out of my pay check to donate to a charity. So don’t accuse me of being someone who makes an annual donation of toilet paper to the local poor house.

[quote] I take time out of my life to build for Habitat for Humanity [/quote]
[quote] I gave to Tsunami survivors, Katrina suvivors. [/quote]
All power to ya! And how does it make you feel whenever you help someone? Dont you get feeling of fulfillment when you do these sorts of things?

[quote] Cost of an X-box 360= $400 + cost of games (most are gunna be around $70-$80)[Are gunna? Future tense? You mean, they're not out yet? I'm pretty sure I've bought quite a few 360 games, none of them over 50 bucks.[/quote]
… I think that you are missing the point here…

[quote] Please don't think that all gamers are lazy, fat, inconsiderate blobs. [/quote]
I don’t think that. If I did think that, I would be making a hasty generalization that would make me a hypocrite. I am also a gamer but as I have

[quote] I'm sorry to pick apart another post, but I felt it necessary. [/quote]


I don’t think that it was necessary,....but thank you for apologizing. I take no offense to what you said, I just think that it is wrong and that you need to re-assess some of you values.





[quote] If you think that all the money we put towards video games should go to the poor. How come you play nerf wouldn't that money be better spent on 3rd world countries. One longshot could feed like 130 people you know. [/quote]
Yes I realize that money spent on nerf could go to save a lot of people, but I am not saying that all money should be sent there.

[quote] The needy need to learn how to help themselves. [/quote]
Why don’t you go and tell that to the face of a starving child.
What do you think that they try to do? They spend their entire day looking for that elusive scrap of food. And then there are those who don’t have the strength to even stand up. What are they supposed to do? I don’t think that they can go and plow a field, or weave cloth or fish or mine or much of anything at all. They need to be taught ho to do work before they can support themselves. And before they can be taught, they need to have the energy to be taught and the energy to work.

[quote] I almost completely agree with Elf about the amount of money people spend on video games. [/quote]

It is nice to see that someone on the boards has some morals.

[quote][quote]Fact: footballs (American, and rest of the world-ian) and other sport balls can all be found for under $20. [/quote]
I think what elf is trying to say here is that you could be playing real football for far less than it costs to play a digital version of it. Personally, football isn't my sport, but I would still much rather play a real game of it with my friends than sit on a couch pushing buttons on a piece of plastic and pretend to play. [/quote]You speak the truth!

[quote] 'A man was walking along the beach one afternoon as the tide was going out, when he saw a boy throwing starfish into the water "What are you doing?" the man asked.
"When the tide goes out, the starfish get stranded on shore and die, so I'm throwing them back into the water." responded the boy.
"But there are so many, you can't possibly save them all. You can't make a difference." said the man. The boy then picked up a starfish off the shore and said,
"It makes a difference to this one." and threw it back into the ocean.' [/quote]

That is a really good one! That one is going on my facebook quotes.



It doesn’t matter if someone else who can donate more than you chooses not to. That is their choice. But that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t. Why don’t you set an example and do it anyways.

We should all stop now.
I think that both sides of this argument have stated their beliefs and that this has all been blown way out of proportion.
I apologize for starting this.

~Elf

Edited by elf_avec_gun, 19 November 2006 - 01:50 PM.

[DTReaper]

Ok, Back on topic I have played the Xbox 360 and I like it. The graphics are quite good. Personally I don't reaseach these things alot but Nintendo Has been making new consoles that are outside the box and ultimatly may sell way less or way more due tyo its uniqueness. Personally I will probably stick to my PS2 that and my donkey kong stand up arcade game. Just because the other things are quite expensive. I dont know which I want to get. But I voted PS3 because well i like playstation and because I think the gamecube blows. I really wish this argument would be stopped by the admins or by the bigger man just stopping it.

-DTR

[Commonly Hunted]

I actually ended up camping out for the Wii last night. My dad saw all the people waiting for it last night at Walmart so he decided that we would camp out at the Circuit City next to that Walmart. Walmart only had 20 units and there were more than 20 people waiting already. Circuit City didn't open until 9:30 am today. So we stayed all night and at 7 am an employee came outside and gave us vouchers so we didn't have to stay outside another two and half hours. Now we have two Wiis. We're putting them on eBay.

Did you know that some people were selling their spots in line! If they were ahead of a lot of people, they would sell their spots for at least 50 bucks. I wish I had thought of doing that at the PS 3 release.

And stop trying to make the world better by complaining about people not donating, elf. It always pisses people off when you ask them to donate. An even when they normally do, they don't like to be told to or even asked to donate.

[Megamannt92]

Kill sports games

No! Sports games are my favorites!

kill EA, and kill Microsoft

Hmmm I do agree with that...I like 2k games.

As for Microsoft, I liked them until they reasled Windows XP.

DOS forever!!!!!

[Commonly Hunted]

Yeah, I hate XP, too. But I like the sound of the new one, Vista. You have to have that one to play Halo 2 on PC when it comes out.

[Lancaster]

PS1 > Everything of its generation

PS2 > Xbox > Gamecube (Xbox controllers = shit, Gamecube just wasn't very good.)

If it weren't for Halo, Xbox would have died a long time ago, and the 360 would never even be made. That's why Halo gets so much money in Royalties from Microsoft, because it's solely responsible for the survival of the Xbox.

Maybe Halo (I'm using your terminology, because games don't receive money, game studios do) gets royalties from Microsoft is because Microsoft made Halo.

I prefer XBOX because it has better graphics, better games, and Live. When you look at Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow (random example, because I play both) on XBOX versus PS2, the PS2 version sucks. XBOX games play like they're made for XBOX, while most PS2 games play like cheap ports. I'll take the Box any day of the week.

[Pineapple]

Thank you, last three posters. Back on topic.

Next one who wants to be Michael Jackson, and save the world, gets a trip to Neverland.

Pineapple, I don't mean to put down Nerf or you but you say that you don't respect anything that makes smart people act like animals.

What do you think we are doing? We can be smart when designing and building working guns but then we shoot each other while frantically picking up ammo and screaming and laughing at each other.

I think that makes us seem more like animals, too.

Point taken.

What I meant....is about systematically waiting in a line for hours like cattle prepared for slaughter, to thunderously stampede a store with little regard for each other, to grab a box, spend a (in my opinion) ridiculous amount of money, to be placated for what, a year or two of physical inactivity?

On top of that, yes, we Nerfers shoot it up with each other, pick up darts, and laugh our asses off. But we have a GOOD TIME.

Did you see what happened in California (I think, it was a pretty short news flash)? People shooting each other in line? Getting robbed? What is up with that?

Why do you think I carry a MK3 pepper fogger and an ASP telescopic baton (with proper training) when I go to the city? It's a sad sad world when you think that video games can bring out the worst in people. Then again, there are some games that young people decided to emulate in real-life, only to find out that bullets really hurt, or crashing cars that don't belong to you gets you a long time in jail (someone in HI decided to play Grand Theft Auto on the streets of Honolulu).


Don't get me wrong, people. I enjoy a game every now and then (my favorite is still Goldeneye64), and I'm an active Microsoft Flight Simmer, but it's just that when one's gaming habits take them disproportionatlely away from RealLife™, I wonder if it's taking form of disconnecting minds from societal life. That's why so many young people nowadays have so many more hang-ups.

Then again, I could just be old and grumbling about everything. My granddad used to complain about my BB gun shooting, that it would make me violent.

Old school video games! Or PCs.


-Piney-

[Commonly Hunted]

You're right, too, Pineapple. It is very stupid that people end up shooting each other over a worthless piece of crap that costs $600.

Next one who wants to be Michael Jackson, and save the world, gets a trip to Neverland.

Haha, funny. Hee hee! That's going in my sig.

Edited by Commonly Hunted, 20 November 2006 - 11:00 AM.

[elf avec gun]

OOOooo if we are on the subject of old games to get instead of getting a new gaming console...
This is my opinion (I am not trying to force anyone to convert to it) I think the one game that I have gotten the most enjoyment out of would have to be Freelancer. It is made by Microsoft and can be purchased for $20. It is one of those games that truly has no end. You can play for years and not have seen everything. And it has an amazing online expirience.

Oh yea, I was at my friend's house today and I played on his Wii. He is a nintendo fanatic who got one at midnight. The controller took some getting used to, but after I grew accustomed to it I found it quite fun and refreshingly different.
So I put my vote for Wii.
I am pooling money with some friends and we are going to get someone a Wii. So technically I can say that I am buying one.

Pineapple: I would like to apologize for what occured, and I am sorry that that ended up the way it did, It wasn't my intention to start a flamefest.

Edited by elf_avec_gun, 21 November 2006 - 05:01 PM.

[Megamannt92]

Old school games! Any Commander Keen fans?

I dig the dopefish..


Back on topic i think the Wii is going to blow all others away....Plus the downloads look awesome.

[Team Slaya]

IF I were to go and shell out cash for either of the current gen consoles, I'd first have to look at their libraries. Neither of the new consoles have a great library, I have nothing to really compare with.

When I was considering getting my PS2, I didn't go for the general, biased look on graphics and the ignorant ideas of being a sony/microsoft/nintendo whore. I went and looked at their libraries. I already have a Gamecube - it has served me well. I've had a TON of really, really fun games on it. Isn't that the point of it all? I couldn't give two shits if Xbox has better graphics with a semi-bland shooter, but has no other library to speak of. PS2 came to my tastes because of DDR and many good RPG's being brought onto that system. I like RPG's, they're fun, as is DDR and, as I discovered, Guitar Hero. Both of the consoles I got I am very happy with, and all my friends who got Xboxes when they came out are still playing Halo 2. Which I find sad, it was a good game, but not enough to entertain me for THAT long.

Don't get me wrong, shiny graphics are really hot, I like them a bunch. But if I was to shell out $599 + tax to some guy for pretty lookables I'd have my head thoroughly examined. I've seen a bunch of interesting titles come out for X360 already. I've also seen some VERY nice looking projects for Wii and PS3, such as Mario Galaxy and Assassin's Creed. As I said before, I'll wait it out and act accordingly. I was lucky with the GameCube - I didn't research anything about it, and some really good games came out for it.

All in all, I hoped this discussion wouldn't turn into a "my graphics r bettr than urs" fight, but actual discussions. I was mistaken, although the last two pages have had some seriously deep comments. Thanks a lot for that, elf, and others who kept their cool and gave some pretty intelligent feedback. Mad props.

And DTReaper had a good point, get back on topic! If you're gonna bash each other about charities, make a new thread.

And I gotta say it. Nerf really beats the hell out of shooters, both PC and Console. KthxI'llshutupnow.

TS

[Rambo]

I heard Halo 3 is going to be $100.

[Commonly Hunted]

No way! Microsoft and Bungie would never do that to us! I don't think any game producers have ever marketed a game for $100.

[Rambo]

My mistake. For 100$ you get two game disks, a disk "holder", and a helmet like the one the main character wears. They're calling it "Halo 3: Legendary Edition". The regular version will go for 60-70 I think.

[Commonly Hunted]

That sounds more like it. I'd buy that Legendary version if I had a job (and I better by then or I'm gonna start pimping my friends, just kidding). And real soon I'll be getting a 360 (probably for Christmas--more likely before) from the money I made on the two Wiis I sold (they both went for $365) and then when I start working I'll buy a Wii.

Edit: My brother found Legendary Halo 3 on Amazon.com. If you pay now, it's 80 bucks and Amazon will send it to you when it comes out. Also, Amazon says it's 4 discs instead of 2 but you were right about the helmet.

Edited by Commonly Hunted, 22 November 2006 - 07:15 PM.

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

Commonly Hunted:
If you sell enough of those boltsniper-design guns, you will have enough money.

Anyway, I already bought (With my own money, bitch. I'm not poor.) a 360. Microsoft's console might not have done as well as the PS2 last year, but if you stand back and look at them side by side, this is what you see:

1) The 360 Pro console costs $200 less than the PS3
2) The 360 with XBox live has better online play capabilities that the PS3
3) The graphics on the 360 are better
4) Microsoft isn't trying to scam people for money without giving them the kickass system that they deserve
5) The 360 has Gears of War (the best game for the next year, in my opinion) and Halo 3 (the best game after it comes out, based on the trailers)
6) The 360 has wireless controllers, meaning I can own people while I'm not even in the same room as my 67" plasma screen (with surround sound)
7) The 360 has a better head start on the market than the Wii and the PS3

I'll admit that the Wii has cool motion-sensitive controllers, and the PS3 is built on an empire of Sony's, but in the end, the 360 is better that the other current gen. consoles. Now, that doesn't mean I have anything against Piney and the others who like to kick it up old-school on their PCs, because I do that sometimes, too, but if the new technology and consoles are out there, that's where I am.

P.S.: There's no way in hell I'm going to miss Halo 3, reservation or not.

[moubeus5018]

I am not going to buy the wii ever, it seems dumb and stupid. I want a ps3 but 600? HAHA yeah right. ill get a ps3 when the ps4 comes out. The first one im gunna get is the 360 unless I win a ps3. The wii's control seems dumb, and i dont like nitendo games other than handhelds. I am a die hard sony fan, but I wont pay 600 for a system. Im happy with my xbox and ps2 for now.

[Commonly Hunted]

SHA, I wrote that post about not having enough money just before I decided to sell the first FAR to General Cole. And I agree with everything you said.

But like moubeus said, the controllers for the Wii are stupid. I hated them at first but now that hate is just a mild dislike. I don't hate them because they were the first to use tilt-sensitive controllers as the main controllers for their console. But I played one today at a friend's house and it more complicated than it looks (playing Zelda Twilight Princess).

I think it is because the nunchuck is the control you use to move and that is normally held in your right hand but with XBox controllers you use the left stick to move. And then when you have to actually use the tilt-sensors (shooting arrows and fishing) it doesn't work as smooth as you'd like. Next time I'm going to try the nunchuck in my left hand to see if it's any easier.

Oh, and I just finished at Best Buy. We got two 22" LCD flat-screen monitors, two eMachine computers (these come with a photo printer and 15" LCD flat-screen monitor each), two 15" Toshiba laptops, a TV projector, two Canon PIXMA MP160 all-in-one printers, and two packs of 100 DVD-Rs. All of these will go on eBay except the all-in-one printers, one 22" screen, one eMachine, the TV projector, and the DVD-Rs.

The account these will be sold on will be Kan_az_plumber1967. Start looking on eBay later today if you want any of it. You can read the specifications of everything on the auctions. Here's a clear list of what's for sale (might change and I might update):

1(one) eMachine computer
1(one) 22" LCD flat-screen
1(one) 15" Toshiba LCD flat-screen monitor--came with eMachine
1(one) 15" HP LCD flat-screen monitor--came with eMachine, they ran out of Toshibas so they gave us this more expensive one with built in speakers
2(two) 15" Toshiba laptops
2(two) Canon photo printers

And we are also selling our old 17" and, I think, 19" LCD flat-screens. And a barebone (book-sized computer) and our old computer.

We camped at Best Buy starting Thanksgiving 5 PM until Black Friday 6 AM when it opened. We were between the 40th and 50th people in line but some middle easterns (my dad almost fought with one) kept cutting (raising that number to 60) until the police came and started kicking people to the back of the line. There were, by the time the store opened, at least 700 people waiting to get in. But we got everything we went there for. It was worth it.