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#1 Nero121

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 06:20 AM

Hey, I hear all the time on the Forums about how people's NF are amazing. That's okay, I love my NF too. But they say they get ranges of up to 75 with the NF. I am only getting around 50. I replaced the spring and drilled through those 2 front pieces. And added a new barrel too. Any other suggestions? I've been through a fair amount of NF topics looking for the answer. I though O-Rings (bigger) might help but I'm not sure. Please respond. Thank you!

Edited by Nero121, 27 April 2006 - 06:34 AM.

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#2 puggy

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 06:26 AM

You need to add a 4" peice of cpvc to the planger tube, secure it with some epoxy. The seal with the plunger is poor. So wap electrical tape around the plunger head 3 times. That should help.
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#3 NinjZ

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 03:25 PM

I always say, if you're not going to give good advice, dont give any at all.

Nero, the problem is not everyone uses the same materials. CPVC works for some peoples stefans, and for others CPVC is garbage. Not everyone has the same type of barrel materials and foam. This makes varied performance from one persons NF mod to another.

You may need to find a better barrel-to-dart fit. You will also want to put another O-ring on the plunger head to help increase the seal and amount of air being pushed out. Check to amke sure your barrel is perfectly sealed to the plunger tube.
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#4 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:38 PM

NinjZ is correct.

Dart-to-barrel fit varies widely: what brand of PVC, what brand of foam, how you made your darts, etc. Weather can even affect you dart-to-barrel fit.

The general rule, however, is that spring guns function well under a fairly tight barrel, while pump guns require a slightly looser barrel (The terms tight and loose refer to how the dart fits in the barrel: NOT how securley the barrel is attached).

So, buy a couple short segments of stuff. Order some PETG from someone on this sight, buy some schedule 80 PVC, buy some 9/16" and 17/32" brass, buy some CPVC. See how well they fit your darts. When you find a good material, buy a fair amount of it, and use it as you 'standard' barrel for that kind of gun (Spring or Pump).



Anyway, more you your actual question about the Night-Finder, I would suggest a case reinforcement coupled with a stronger spring (available at most hardware stores), and either wrap a thin layer of tape around the plunger head, or pick up some new O-Rings at a hardware store (just bring your NF one with you, and find two or three more of the same size).

Also, make sure your barrel is very secure: a strong enough spring will take out a flimsy barrel. The barrel will literally be shot off the gun.


I hope that helped a bit.





Sincereley,
Pat
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#5 Nero121

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:47 PM

Thanks everyone. Just to clarify on some things, should the O-ring I get be bigger or the same size as the current one on the NF? I also got a new spring, which seemed to do some good, but I was worried that the NF would be too flimsy to hold a really big one. How do I reinforce a plunger tube and the case. I have tried searching this, but to no avail. If someone could clue me in that would be most helpful. Any further tips would be welcomed as well. Thank you!
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#6 nerfer34

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 04:49 PM

Also grab a pack of 10" bungies. They are very cheap and added over 10' in range to my NF. Make sure you follow the mod correctly on this website. Also old style NFs get about 10' more than the EX-3s too.

Edited by nerfer34, 27 April 2006 - 04:50 PM.

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#7 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 05:16 PM

Thanks everyone. Just to clarify on some things, should the O-ring I get be bigger or the same size as the current one on the NF? I also got a new spring, which seemed to do some good, but I was worried that the NF would be too flimsy to hold a really big one. How do I reinforce a plunger tube and the case. I have tried searching this, but to no avail. If someone could clue me in that would be most helpful. Any further tips would be welcomed as well. Thank you!



The O-Rings should be the same size: you want to use multiple: ie. three o-rings on one plunger. The seal will be much better, and ver much more air efficient.


Could you list the compression strength of the spring? The plunger tube needs no reinforcement. The plunger rod is very beefy. If you want, you could cut the heads off some very thin nails and epoxy them in the grooves along the plunger rod. I'd also suggest a more powerful catch spring. It doesn't have to be done, but sometime's my NF's with spring replacements don't catch well (like a SSII, or DT3 pistol), and a stronger catch spring helps that problem.

Also, make sure that the little orange pieces are very secure. Take the first orange thing, drill out that air-restricting disk, so it's just the part that fits in the plunger tube. Rough it up with some sand paper, wash it off, epoxy it, and let it dry for ~ 12 hours. Take the post off of the other thing, and drill out the little baffle things.

Rough up that piece with sand paper, wash it off, and epoxy it on. Put some weight on it, like a dictionary, or a small brick, and let it dry for ~ 12 hours. (You should do both these steps at the same time so it'll only be ~12 hours, not 24+ hours).


Other than that, there's not much prepping I would suggest for a stronger spring. Oh!!! Before I forget! Most springs you'll find are a bit longer than the NF spring. Cut your replacement spring to the same length as the stock spring, or else you're barrel is going to pop out no matter how reinforced it is.

That about sums it up.


I hope that helped you out. And, as I said before, go looking for some different barrel materials. For a Night Finder, they should be fairly tight, but not so tight it's hard to get the dart into it.





Sincereley,
Pat
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#8 Nero121

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 05:19 PM

Thanks Pat, that really helped. If anyone thinks of anything else just add it. Thank again.
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#9 Ragornocks

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 05:32 PM

I think anyone who believes their NF is getting 75' can suck my left testicle.

Whatever happened to making the mods reasonable, to the point where it didn't take thirty pounds of force to prime a pistol? You don't have to put every piece of plastic in your hands to the max, ya know.
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#10 NinjZ

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 06:33 PM

You havent been frequenting much have you Rags? With my darts, a CPVC barrel and two simple every day newspaper rubber bands My NFs get 70' easy. This is nothing new.
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#11 LordoftheRing434

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 08:42 PM

My NF gets around 60-70' as well. It's not extremely difficult to accomplish, just tinker around with various materials for the best fit. For some people, PETG works best. For others it's CPVC or brass. In my case, it was a crayola/PVC nested barrel. Although that's basically how I mod most of my guns, it still turned out phenomenally. I required no spring replacement, however my NF is loaded with rubber bands and bungees. It's a bitch to cock, but it'd be more of a bitch to get hit in the cock by it..

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#12 davenelz

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 10:49 PM

Since we seem to be on a range dispute, no one should have to be any farther than 50-60 feet (sans sharpshooters, or "sn1pers" to many), close combat is intense, and that's where the party's at. I'm sure many will agree.

Don't try to increase the range so much, increase velocity, accuracy, anything. Don't make it a competition for whos pistol shoots farther. Just because it shoots far, don't mean it's any good.
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#13 Nero121

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Posted 27 April 2006 - 11:18 PM

Well, I find velocity is kind of hard to increase. It just kind of happens on some of my guns, and not others. I can't think of anyway to actually increase velocity besides trying to get better distance, which is usally caused by an increase in velocity, and therefore, increaseing distance increases speed. Don't quote me on any of this. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and if anyone DOES know of a way to increase velocity, all tips are very much appricieted.
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#14 Meaker VI

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Posted 28 April 2006 - 12:47 PM

Don't try to increase the range so much, increase velocity, accuracy, anything... Just because it shoots far, don't mean it's any good.


Well, I find velocity is kind of hard to increase... I can't think of anyway to actually increase velocity besides trying to get better distance, which is usally caused by an increase in velocity, and therefore, increaseing distance increases speed.


To take two birds with one stone; davenelz, if you increase velocity, accuracy, and anything, you will almost always increase distance (Even if distance isn't counted in anything). Those guns that shoot to 70' probably shoot with accuracy to 40'. Which is really handy in close combat, your shot lands where you expect it to.

And for Nero, no, you can't increase velocity without very likely increasing range. Range is caused by several projectile variables (weight, shape, size, drag, etc.) and gun variables (barrel fit, spring power, plunger stroke + fit, barrel length, etc.), while velocity is the resulting amount of movement in the dart. More movement out of the barrel = more range. Unless your dart is actually a rocket, which accellerates after leaving the barrel. Or your dart is doing flips, which could be considered velocity but wouldn't help range any.
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#15 Pineapple

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 12:06 PM

To take two birds with one stone; davenelz, if you increase velocity, accuracy, and anything, you will almost always increase distance (Even if distance isn't counted in anything).

Those guns that shoot to 70' probably shoot with accuracy to 40'. Which is really handy in close combat, your shot lands where you expect it to.


Right on.

I think what hasn't been mentioned, that Raggy had brought up, was that when you start taking the modification envelope to it's brink, you begin to enter the realm of breakages and failures.

This shameless plug leads to an article I wrote two years ago. Nerf engineers their toys to a certain degree of strength to last a certain amount of time, given proper care and stewardship. When those boundaries begin to be breached, the plastic parts only can take so much abuse before something fails.

I agree with davenelz...why would anyone want more than 50 feet or so with a pistol? It wouldn't shoot that much more accurately at closer ranges, although it would lessen the factors that affect accuracy (wind, diminishing projectile energy, etc.). Point is, pistols work best at in-your-face ranges anyway. Any further and you should have your primary out.

I think what everyone forgot is that Ragornocks was THE pioneer who posted the first NiteFinder modification, using PETG (and nothing else, besides the usual air restrictor removal), and his R & D yielded ranges of 52' average. I have a very similar mod (with my EX-3 NF with old version NF spring and a PETG barrel tapered on one end), and get consistent 60' ranges. So I understand his skepticism; in fact, to answer the original question on the thread...


Hey, I hear all the time on the Forums about how people's NF are amazing. That's okay, I love my NF too. But they say they get ranges of up to 75 with the NF. I am only getting around 50.


...while I do acknowledge the fact that SOME can get 70 foot plus ranges on their NFs, they're either getting their blasters ready for the parts pile, or in many cases, as in many other range claims with other blasters, they're full of it. And I don't mean "love".


-Piney-
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#16 Nero121

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Posted 29 April 2006 - 01:43 PM

Makes sense. I actually read your article before I joined and I thought it was very helpful. The only problem I have with a NF only shooting 50 (which isnt much of one at that) is that It's only worth shooting at 30 feet, cause after the arch, it is too easily dodged. But I understand what your saying, and it's true that I would like my NF to last me a good long time. Thanks for the advise :(
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