22 replies to this topic

[Gh05t]

I was just wondering what most people preferred to use: a modded BBB or a modded Crossbow. I only ask because I have the opportuntiy to buy either one of these, both unmodded, and I just wanted some "professional" opinions as to why either one is better(although I suspect the Crossbow will win out). I've seen quite a few "review" pages that give the BBB about a 9 and the Crossbow a perfect 10! Is it really that good? I was also wondering how people can get a modified BBB or Crossbow to shoot over 100 feet. It doesn't seem possible to me for a spring-compression gun to do so. I recently modded my A2k which hit 100+ ranges and it strikes me as highly unlikely for any gun short of extreme air pressure to be able to break, let alone get near, the 100 ft barrier.

[cxwq]

I think the crossbow is slightly overrated.

I think the bbb is massively overrated.

The crossbow, in its favor, is very durable and easy to mod. The bbb is neither.

100' from a bbb is very difficult, despite what anyone else may tell you.

100' from an xbow is simplicity itself. All you have to do is nest 2" of fairly snug brass with a PVC coupler and 10" of brass one size up. Make some nice 1/4" steel or 3/0 lead weighted 2.5" micro stefans. You will get damn close to 100' flat without any spring replacement or banding. With a bungee you should get somewhere in the 105-115' range.

[Pineapple]

I'm suspecting cx has found a replacement primary...




I think crossbows are junk. Mostly because I don't have one, and I'm envious.


-Piney-

[nerfer34]

Its basically unanimous- if you have the $ the crossbow is better than the BBB period.

[Rip32]

If you can try to get both guns. My guess is that you might like the crossbow better, for its performance and feel, but different people have different opinions.

Edited by Rip32, 04 April 2006 - 02:07 PM.

[pat 1st Lt]

I personally prefer the BBB. However, if you are looking only on moddability and range, get the Crossbow, by all means.


The reason I posted is so that I can attempt to spread the word of not long-range guns: Shooting ridiculously far is NOT a helpful thing to the Nerf community. It turns into a game of who can get the most range out of their gun, and then sit behind a tree/box/wall the whole game, waiting for someone else to move.


I like the BBB because it gets decent ranges, but it can modified to be a desrtuctive device: the Bacon Bow. A single-stroke to cock, 8 shot weapon with decent range and accuracy.

If you can, I would highly advise getting a BBB and breeching it, and attaching the breech to the rear cocking mech. With a decent magazine setup, this guns rate of fire overcomes any doubts of it's 'moddability' or 'lack of range'.


This is not to say that the Crossbow, singled AT2K's, SM5Ks, and SM1500 have no palce on the battle field: Just be warned that if you get the Crossbow and do a good job modding it, other people with get long-range guns to compensate, causing you to want more range, causing them to want more, etc. Your wars will very possibly turn into a bunch of people with Titans, LBBs, Crossbows, AT2Ks, SM5Ks, etc.


Be very aware of the way you play with your Crossbow: range isn't everything, and by valuing range so much, we encourage people to diminish other aspects of a gun (Like singling an AT3K) in favor of range, which leads to a very boring game.


Here's a link to a better article: http://nerfhaven.com...?showtopic=3919

Help facilitate the movement for more action in Nerf! Sure, go out and buy a Crossbow if you want, but don't use a good gun as a crutch!

I helped make a Titan that shoots darts larger than megas well past the century mark, in order to defeat people who thought 'armor' was a good idea.

It's a great gun, but I don't use it like a crutch, picking off people at 100 feet. Also, we don't use 'armor'. Why? Because these things take the fun out of Nerf. They encourage people to sit down and wait. And waiting isn't a fun game.




So, anyway, if you want to have a Crossbow, go ahead! There's nothing wrong with the long-range guns: just the way they're used. Don't use it simply as a 'range machine' in order to pick off poor newbs who wanted to play a game and have some fun. It's a Nerf gun: it is used to paly Nerf. NOT to make the neighborhood kids never want to play Nerf again.

[Gh05t]

Thanks for the advice all, especially you Pat. I needn't worry about neighborhood kids though as I am a college student and we play in competetive Nerf CTF 'wars' where range isn't necessarily a crutch. But, on harder consideration I think I WILL go with the BBB and mod it well. I'd rather use a tougher to "master" gun like the BBB than use an xbow like everyone else. Besides the person who was willing to sell me the xbow was asking for a hefty price I'm not really interested in getting both guns though because they are very similar and I'm not made of money. Also, I'd like to know more about this BBB mod you were discussing. I've always liked rast-firing guns, especially ones with good ranges. Anyway thanks for all the advice everybody

Edited by Gh05t, 04 April 2006 - 03:44 PM.

[Gh05t]

Oops! Somhow I double-posted

Edited by Gh05t, 04 April 2006 - 03:42 PM.

[TED]

The reason I posted is so that I can attempt to spread the word of not long-range guns: Shooting ridiculously far is NOT a helpful thing to the Nerf community. It turns into a game of who can get the most range out of their gun, and then sit behind a tree/box/wall the whole game, waiting for someone else to move.

I like the BBB because it gets decent ranges, but it can modified to be a desrtuctive device: the Bacon Bow. A single-stroke to cock, 8 shot weapon with decent range and accuracy.

I don't think that this is true at all. I mod my guns to their full potential not for range but for power. A gun that shoots 115' will hit someone at 60' before another gun that shoots 80' will. This gives the opponent less time to react and attempt to dodge the dart. I'm assuming you've never nerfed at a war becuase no one just camps as far away as possible. Most combat happens within 70' and no one will ever just camp the whole game. I'm also pretty sure that if you really wanted to you could do a Bacon mod on any cocking gun if you really wanted to.

[hokiefan0705]

My friend has the Crossbow and i think it is awsome, but It is a little to pricy, so I might have to get the Bbb.

[pat 1st Lt]

I'm also pretty sure that if you really wanted to you could do a Bacon mod on any cocking gun if you really wanted to.

Indeed, you could do a 'Bacon Mod' on almost any cocking gun: as I have, but it is extraordinarily unweildy and very difficult to maintain Also, it requires either a knowledge of pulleys, or releaseable claps and springs.

But, the BBB is the easiest to breech modify and attach the breech slider to the cocking mech itself.

Since the BBB cocks by pulling the back half of the gun backwards, this allows for a unique possibility: have an operating rod attached to a breech cover. When the gun is pulled back, the slider is closed back over the hole in the barrel. When the gun is pushed forward in order to re-catch and re-cock the plunger tubes, the slider is pushed forward and a new dart either drops in from a magazine, or is hand-loaded. Either way, it's faster than the ramrod method.


And for the BBB, I'd suggest a spring replacement. The stock srping is heavy gauge steel, but it isn't actually very powerful. I'd suggest ACE or Home Depot for good springs. For the BBB, there's not much you can do to reinforce the plunger (unlike a Crossbow), as it is pretty beefy to begin with.


Pissbacon's http://nerfhaven.com...17&hl=bacon bow

Lukeinator's http://nerfhaven.com...&hl=big bad bow



And about the 'people wouldn't camp a whole game!' thing: yes they would.

Imagine, if you would, a childrens park, filled with jungle gyms, monkey bars, etc. Now imagine college students and full grown, bearded men in fatigues, dark hats, and sunglasses with Crossbows, SM1500s, SM5000s, MaxShots, LBBs, ArrowStorms, Titans, and singeled AT2Ks. Now imagine two kids in jeans and sneakers, around 13 or 14, one with a lightly modded Dart Tag Gun, one with a stock Maverick + stock NightFinder, playing nerf for the first time.

Imagine how much camping and 'n00b bashing' would go on, and imagine how many welts and bad experiences those kids would leave with, never again to pick up a Nerf gun, and probably telling all their friends about how stupid Nerf was.

Is this what we want Nerf to be?

Is this how we want to be viewed as a group?


I don't, and that's why I, personally, love the Maverick, and the Dart Tag Guns. They're small, relativley cheap guns that have gotten people into modding, and competitive Nerf, that encourage fast movement, and taking a risky shot. These guns encourage, what I like to think of, as the right kind of play: running and playing, NOT hiding and losing.

In fact, the Maverick got me into the whole online Nerf experience when I had trouble finishing my Nite-Mav (Nite finder plunger, Maverick Body).

That's what I want Nerf to be: a game of running, hiding, shooting, reloading, and doing is all over again. A fast paced combination of hide and go seek and tag, but with guns.

'losing' (which in my oppinion does not exist the way so many portray it) does have it's place on the battlefield: long range, well aimed shots will always have their place, but do we want the game turning into 'stay at least 120 feet away until he has to reload, then I'll take a 120 foot shot, and hope he doesn't hit me while I reload.'?




Sorry for ranting a bit...And the bad spelling/punctuation. Couldn't help it: I've been getting very little sleep working on all these SCAR-N's...


So, in conclusion, I like rapid fire, semi-accurate guns that encourage movement. I don't like guns, or for that matter people, who think range (Or 'power', or 'velocity' as some call it) is everything.



EDIT: Dark Shrimp wrote:
"I'm assuming you've never nerfed at a war becuase no one just camps as far away as possible. "

I take offense to that. I assume, then, that you've never been to a war where every single person but the {SF3G} had either a Crossbow, an SM5K, or a singeled AT2K. That's why I suggested we make our Super Titan, to beat them at their own game, once and for all, and get them to adopt different tactics.

It's worked fairly well: it's gotten our Titan banned from most of the wars we've been to. But, due to good lobbying on our part, it's also gotten SM5Ks, and singeled AT2Ks banned from several local wars.

And no, Dark Shrimp, I've never been to one of the huge SoCal NerfOuts: The biggest game I've ever been in was 20 vs 20 at our high-school tennis courts, where poeple had mostly stock, or very lightly modded guns (Which was, coincidentally, the most fun I've ever had in any competitive sport, including paintball and airsoft).

I hope I didn't sound mean in my reply. Sorry if that came across as rude.




Sincereley,
Pat

Edited by {SF3G}pat 2nd Lt., 04 April 2006 - 06:48 PM.

[LordoftheRing434]

I think crossbows are junk. Mostly because I don't have one, and I'm envious.


-Piney-

I'm in the same boat. I've held/shot one once, and I loved it.

To pose an opposing viewpoint, I own a BBB and it is the favorite gun in my possession. 100' ranges from are very unlikely to happen, but all the same I enjoy the gun. My favorite feature is the cocking mechanism. The action is just so cool.

My recommendation: since you have the opportunity to get either, go Crossbow. It's rarely available, and yet so nice. Besides, the BBB is still around at TRU if you ever want to get one...

~Rings

[Greek Assassin]

I have a BBB and i love it, but i would dfinately love a crossbow more if i had one... If you are willing to spend $60.00 on a nerf gun, go ahead and get the crossbow. If you can get it for less, definately get one. Otherwise, the BBB isn't exatly crap.

[ambushbug]

Pissbacon's http://nerfhaven.com...17&hl=bacon bow

Lukeinator's  http://nerfhaven.com...&hl=big bad bow

not to be a shameless self-promoter - actually, who am I kidding - I'm all about shameless self-promotion - but I've also posted a version of the Bacon Bow. Granted, the write up isn't as good as the original but its more along the lines of what Pat was describing (i.e. the "rear cocking" mechanism).

here's my version

[CaptainSlug]

I'm going to continue kicking myself for giving my crossbow to a friend 7 years ago.
I had one for a really long time and it held up extremely well.

[ompa]

You can very easily fix a Crossbow, the internals are as simple as they get. So the Crossbow wins out in durability.

If you add a clip on the Crossbow (Renegade, Ompa, etc.) you can get a good ROF and range.

Look around your community, I'm sure SOMEONE has one. I was lucky enough to find two people at my school that had Crossbows, and pretty much just gave them to me. You can find alot by just asking. You'll get alot of funny looks, and your chances of getting a girlfriend will go to around 0%, but you'll get quite a few nerf guns.

~ompa

[GeneralPrimevil]

...your chances of getting a girlfriend will go to around 0%...

Not for me...
Apparently all of the "hot chicks" at my school love to shoot...anything. I mean, PB, airsoft, Nerf, real steel...
Can anyone guess what I am doing next year to help myself out?




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I started an afterschool shooting club .

Anyway, I'm gonna have to ask around for a crossbow, T3, and a few otehr guns. Hopefully I can get them in exchange for auto repairs/customizations or electrical work. Everyone loves lights!

[Gh05t]

Wow I guess I started a hot-topic huh? Again, thanks for all the feedback everyone but I've definetly made up my mind now. I'm going to get the BBB for $20 brand-new on ebay as opposed to the crossbow down in my friend's basement which he refuses to offer for less than $60. To me it's not really worth it: they are very similar, albiet the xbow is significantly more powerful, and the xbow isn't exactly in prime condition not to mention price. I can't really see paying more than $50 for a Nerf gun. That xbow has been sitting/molding in his basement for years and he still "can hardly part with it". Bastard (In case you hadn't noticied this "friend" of mine is more of an annoyance than anything. He was more of a High-school aquaintance or friend-of-a-friend if you know what I mean ). Anywho, I have made my descision to go with the BBB and I'll think about the bacon mod. Thanks for all of the support everyone

Edited by Gh05t, 05 April 2006 - 01:46 PM.

[pat 1st Lt]

Pissbacon's http://nerfhaven.com...17&hl=bacon bow

Lukeinator's  http://nerfhaven.com...&hl=big bad bow

not to be a shameless self-promoter - actually, who am I kidding - I'm all about shameless self-promotion - but I've also posted a version of the Bacon Bow. Granted, the write up isn't as good as the original but its more along the lines of what Pat was describing (i.e. the "rear cocking" mechanism).

here's my version

I tryed searching for your version, as I had read the topic some while ago, but I , apperantly, am not very good at searching (I rarely find the topics I search for...)

I did not forget you, I simply couldn't find your mod. Sorry if that was insulting to you.

EDIT: I'm glad you've chosen to go with the BBB. Good luck with your modding.
And, yes, you find that when you approach people about old Nerf Guns they've never used in years, and they go online and realize they can scrape 50-70 dollars out of it, them become remarkably 'attached' and 'reminiscent' about the 'good ol' days' and how they could 'barely stand to part with it'. However, my clan just put up flyers around my school with pictures of Nerf Guns we wanted to buy, and our phone-number, and we got two DT3's, a Crossbow, three SuperMaxx 1000's, and one SuperMaxx 5000.



Sincereley,
Pat

Edited by {SF3G}pat 2nd Lt., 05 April 2006 - 05:34 PM.

[ambushbug]

I did not forget you, I simply couldn't find your mod. Sorry if that was insulting to you.

No worries. I didn't find it insulting at all. Just wanted Gho5t to be aware of it.

[Falcon]

I'm suspecting cx has found a replacement primary...

I dunno, though...

He's had an xbow with Rawray's mod on it at every war I've been to with him. He used it for a short while at the beginning of Spring CAFF '05, but he's really just been loaning it to other people for the most part.

I could be wrong (he was mentioning integrations when he was discussing a new possible primary, so I won't factor out the xbow just yet) but I'm not entirely sure that he'll be settling on it just yet...

I certainly wouldn't put it past him, though.

When we find out what he's cooking at April YANO, I'm sure we'll fill you in so you can set your mind at ease...

[J cobbers]

I've had an x-bow (now highly modified) for about 6 years and in terms of comfort it is the best that nerf has offered. I picked up a BBB about a month ago and haven't had a chance to do much with it other than tinker a bit with a breach system that I haven't had time to finish. The BBB has more of a shot gun feel where as the x-bow is more the clasic rifle. Both have great power, but require modification to capitalize on it.

Over all if I had to choose I'd take the x-bow, but the BBB is a perfectly viable option and currently available for sale.

[Pineapple]

I could be wrong (he was mentioning integrations when he was discussing a new possible primary, so I won't factor out the xbow just yet) but I'm not entirely sure that he'll be settling on it just yet...

I certainly wouldn't put it past him, though.

When we find out what he's cooking at April YANO, I'm sure we'll fill you in so you can set your mind at ease...

Thanks, Falc.

It's just that maybe if he switches primaries, I might have a better chance persuading him to sell me one of his AT3ks...or two.

All the quirks and bugs notwithstanding, the innovative creativity has really poked at me to get out and purchase a BBB (never owned one before), and see what all the hub-bub is about. The two video'd multishots (Forsaken_angel24 and Carrtoon) really sold me.

It's not as though I don't have enough things to mod around the place, though. I'm just feeding my habit....I mean, my son's habit.



-Piney-