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Semi-automatic 12 Shot Bbb

Reload barrel equipped Big Bad Bow

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#1 Carrtoon

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 12:32 AM

Hey guys, this is my first post, so I hope to make it a good one. Some of you have seen this at the HQ, but I thought more would like to see it and possibly use it for other guns:

This is my first attempt. It is equipped with 2 SSPBs. Sloppy, but effective:

Old BBB

Next, I decided to make it look a little better. I made a new reload barrel and put a pump from the waterbolt water gun from Lanard inside the BBB:

Posted Image

Posted Image

And finally, here's the video of the new and improved BBB Rapid Fire!

BBB Redone

One shot looks like it mis-fired, but the plunger didn't catch. The very last shot didn't fire because I ran out of stefans.

Edited by Carrtoon, 29 March 2006 - 10:20 AM.

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#2 fobpawwor

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 12:47 AM

Wow, a very unique shotgun. Looks very cool. But, can you explain the clip system? Thanks!
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#3 ambushbug

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 01:24 AM

  But, can you explain the clip system? Thanks!

judging from the video and the pics, I believe the forward motion (just prior to re-cocking the spring) slides that thin purple "guide rod" forward, forcing air through the vinyl tubing, pushing all the darts in the clip down. As a result the dart closes to the front/bottom gets loaded into the barrel and... fire!

Nice mod - I never would have thought of that. I may try this out - though my 3B has already used that space (the sliding rod) to create a breech/bolt system similar to the "4B" (inspired by Piss Bacon's and Lukeinator's mods). I may have to pick up another one.

A few questions:

1) how did you figure out how much vinyl tubing (air volume) was required to advance one dart?

2) how does the Y-junction between the clip and barrel work so smoothly? Is the barrel the same diameter as the clip?

3) what are the ranges like? Suffer at all compared to the clip-less? Presumably, this would still let you use long barrels, right?
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#4 Jangadance

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 07:16 AM

Back with the SSPB's taped to the side, I thought it was kind of jury-rigged but nonetheless progressive and inspiring. Your new, streamlined design is definately very sexy, a whole new way to think about clips. How easy is reloading that thing?
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#5 GeneralPrimevil

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 07:27 AM

That was pretty interesting. So, umm, what made you think of using pressurized air to advance the darts? Very nice work anyway.

I'm gonna have to get a 3B now...no, I am not going to even attempt to do what he has done. I just need something that isn't homemade and isn't a pistol...
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#6 J cobbers

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:14 AM

I think I'm going to abandon my breech style clip and do this instead. What are you using for the plunger system? what sort of ranges are you getting?
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#7 Carrtoon

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:37 AM

Yes, the clip system works by taking pressurized air and pressing the next dart down in the reload barrel, just like ambushbug said. Before going on, I'll explain the clip:

This is the old clip, but you'll get the idea:

Materials:

Dremel
1/2'' inside diameter PVC
1/2'' outside diameter CPVC
Electric tape

Start out by cutting about a 3'' piece of PVC.
You need to take your dremel to it and cut completely through it on the sides. Next cut through the top to the other side only once. Cut the opposite side also, not cutting all the way through, but leaving a thin plastic film. Now peel the plastic up like this:

Posted Image

It is a bit confusing, but I hope you will get it with the next few pics...

Now, cut a piece of CPVC to about 3''. Slot out about 1/3 of the 3'' piece like this:

Posted Image

Now push the CPVC into the PVC. Look carefully at the placement of the CPVC. I pushed it in, not quite flush with the slot of the PVC. This is essential:

Posted Image

Now, you need to cut another piece of CPVC to around 5''. Cut it to however long you want your reload barrel to be. It has to maximize ROF, but not so much that it fires inconsistently from a lack of pressure. 5'' fits around 10 stefans. Cut the end of the CPVC at around a 30 degree angle to sit flush on the 3'' slotted CPVC:

Posted Image

Fold back the PVC and push the reload barrel in. Make sure to push it into the little gap you left between the slot of the PVC and the CPVC. Here's the next pic:

Posted Image

Now, load that sucker up with electrical tape! Make sure it doesn't leak! I didn't use hot glue because the stefans could possibly get caught on it, but if your careful, you'll be fine. It should look like this:

Posted Image

Now here's a finished pic of how it should look when you look down the barrel:

Posted Image

Notice that this reload barrel can be quickly taken off and you have just your cpvced BBB. It's completely removable.

The pump I found was from a Lanard water gun called the Waterbolt. I had to hack it out of its shell, but it fit perfectly inside the BBB.

The needed volume was just guess and check for the pumps. One SSPB didn't quite work, so I slapped another one on the other side. When I finished, it looked down-right ugly. Hence the new encased pump. It seemed to work even better than the SSPBs. I've got no leaks now, and a good air supply.

The Y junction clip system is the same diameter on the inside. The PVC on the outside is merely just a casing. You need to make sure that your darts are making a smooth transaction from the angled barrel to the striaght barrel. On my second clip, I had problems with that smooth transaction. Sanding is key. Also you need to make sure the seal is perfect. Dart size is important also. They need to be 1'' or smaller. Any longer, and they might catch in the process of trading from the angled barrel to the straight barrel.

The ranges are whatever your original BBB could do. It loses no seal, except on the last dart because there are no darts behind it, and works perfectly. One dart is pressed into the straight barrel. It stops when it hits the bottom of the barrel. Now it has made a seal and is in the line of the air. Pressurized air forces it out of the barrel at a good rate and it fires nicely! The next dart is pushed in, and the same thing happens.

Reloading can be very fast, or very time consuming. It all depends on how consistent you want your gun to be. The first reload barrel I made had a coupler where you could replace it with another pre-loaded one. This works fine, but sometimes the darts were hung up on the gap the coupler made. You can see that my new one doesn't have that. I get very consistent results, but it takes about 30 seconds to reload. I find that after the 12 shots, just rip off the reload barrel, and use the cpvced BBB. If you haven't noticed, it can also shoot arrows.

The idea of using a pressurized system to advance the darts came after guessing and checking. First, I made the reload barrel. I needed to advance the dart manually and then plug the top of the barrel. If the top of the barrel isn't sealed off, darts will shoot at you! So then, I thought a spring system would be my next try. This turned out to be too complicated. Jamming is an issue, and it'd be a pain to reload. Hence, the air. I had SSPBs lying around and serving no purpose. I saw that the action of the cocking on the BBB was perfect for the pumps, so I tried it. It works nicely and I couldn't be more happy!

I hope that answers everything so far... Any more questions? Maybe I should write a book!
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#8 Anothernoob

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 03:45 PM

How does the pressurized clip not leak? Just a good dart/CPVC seal I suppose? How long does it hold pressure for?

I would totally do that to my BBB but I've got 2 major problems:
1. My 1/2" CPVC doesn't fit into my 1/2" PVC, and
2. My stefans, even when stretch made, are too fat for CPVC. Have I been using the wrong kind of CPVC all this time? It's 1/2" SDR 11 CPVC listed for drinking water.
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#9 GeneralPrimevil

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 04:44 PM

Same with me. The O.D. should remain the same with CPVC throughout the schedules, however, your FBR might just be a bit fat, or you have a different schedule than me. My 1/2" CPVC here can barely fit a micro Stefan. It will not, however, fit inside of 1/2" Sch40 PVC without a bit of slimming.

So now the question is, where does Carrtoon get his CPVC and/or PVC?
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#10 Carrtoon

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 06:18 PM

When 12 darts are pushed into a barrel, little leaking happens. The seal and pressure are only needed to push the next dart into the straight barrel. I'm not sure, but I think the darts do move up the reload barrel when fired, but the are pushed back down. This may be happening, or may not be.

The cpvc is 1/2'' outside diameter 100psi @ 180 degrees F, 400 psi @ 73 degrees F made by Coastline Plastics L.L.C. The pvc is 1/2'' inside diameter Bristolpipe SCH 40 600 psi. All of it is bought at Menards. Try sanding down outside sharp edge of the cpvc. Just to make a smooth start. I had to hit mine pretty hard with a hammer to get it to fit.

I use RCR Dennis comfort seal Caulksav'r Poly foam backer rod that has a 1/2'' diameter. Hope this helps!
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#11 WratH

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 08:07 PM

Cpvc is 1/2" ID.
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#12 Carrtoon

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 08:15 PM

Really? I thought since 1/2'' cpvc fits inside 1/2'' pvc, that it has an OD of 1/2''...
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#13 Black Wrath

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 09:51 PM

Really? I thought since 1/2'' cpvc fits inside 1/2'' pvc, that it has an OD of 1/2''...

The inside of 1/2" PVC is closer to 11/16ths I believe. It's almost 5/8ths, but not quite. The OD of 1/2" PVC borders on 3/4" too.
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#14 rotoryfan

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:35 PM

that's really amazing. where do you live that you found sspb's, assuming that they're no older than 4 months. I liked the SSPB's for the simplicity of it, and I am thinking about using them to enhance the power of the existing spring, by adding the air into the barrel, aimed slightly forward, so that it doesn't create a counter force, which would slow the dart instead of pushing it forward. I would just make one of Ompa's clips, but gravity fed, and there would be a BBB with a slightly lesser ROF, but I'm thinking that the range gains would be incredible, and would be complemented by the decent ROF of a bolt action clip mod.

Once again, that is truly brilliant. even though I'm only 14, I don't think I would ever have thought of that. I'm still a little curious as to how you made the cpvc fit into PVC, even with a hammer, it must have been pretty difficult. Might I suggest PETG? it seems to have a thinner wall thickness, and its transparency would allow you to see how many darts are in your clip...thing. it would fit into the PVC better, I think. I wouldn't know, but I think that the darts would be a little looser in the clip too, unless that defeats the purpose...
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#15 GeneralPrimevil

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Posted 29 March 2006 - 10:39 PM

It seems as if it would slightly defeat the purpose, although only testing would tell.

CVPC is based off of copper pipe. PVC is based off of lead/iron/steel pipe. There, happy?

Once again, really nice. Seriously, this thing is pretty nifty now. Must...buy...3B...
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#16 Carrtoon

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 09:18 AM

Hehe. Thanks for the comments and the clarification on the 1/2'' cpvc. I used the new N-strike ones. They're crawling in all the walmarts around here(SE Minnesota). There is nothing wrong with the old method, the new one is just for looks. That idea for using the sspbs is interesting. Let me know how your results come out.

That cpvc is a pain to get into pvc. Once it's started, though, it can be hammered hard and it fits, though.

As to the PETG, I would be using it, but I can't find any. The smallest I've found is 1'' at the local pet store. Any suggestions? Menards and Home Depot have never even heard of the stuff...
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#17 rotoryfan

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 11:47 PM

...if only I could find an SSPB...
I only know that Cx sells PETG in huge increments, but that was a few weeks ago. hopefully he'll sell by 10' increments instead of 100'.
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#18 murakumo32

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 01:37 AM

Hmm, I also use Coastline Plastics CPVC, but my stefan are a little fat, even when stretched. I use the FBR that comes in a purple and clear plastic bag that I get at Home Depot.
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#19 Ryan201821

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 11:05 AM

Wow where do you live, over here there is no FBR at home depot. By the way Carrtoon, I am jealous of you BBB

Edited by Ryan201821, 31 March 2006 - 11:06 AM.

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#20 Carrtoon

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 11:07 AM

Hehe. It's not that hard to do if you have the right materials...

Near Rochester, MN. A city of about 80,000 people. I go to Menards to get my FBR.

Edited by Carrtoon, 31 March 2006 - 11:08 AM.

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