39 replies to this topic

[SniperWolf]

ok, I just got another person into Nerf, and he is like 26 years old. He looked at my costom Maxx Shot and saw some things that we could do to it to make it better. He said that you might be able to fill the inside of the gun with spray-insulating foam(staying clear of the internals). That would quiet it down significantly. I'm also going to make a silencer for it. Then we cut the stock off of my Bandit Crossbow and glued that onto the back so I have a really bad ass stock on my Maxx Shot. He also said that he was going to glue 2 MS side by side and join the levers together so that you have a double barrel shotgun effect. He also had some ideas for the PC.

[Spoon]

All of his ideas revolve around glueing together large pieces of plastic, and expecting them to be structurally sound. Just don't drop it is all I have to say.

And why, exactly, would you want a "quieter" Max Shot? As you have no doubt seen at the YANO, there is simply NO STEALTH in nerf wars, at least not with more than 3 people in them, and certainly not once you've gotten a shot off. Hell I'd like my nerf guns to be as loud and fear inducing as possible.

[SniperWolf]

Thats what I told him, i guess it couldn't hurt to have quieter guns though...

as for the stock, well I'm going to glue the hell outta it. so I hope it doesn't break!

[Jangadance]

Good point, loud guns are definately a benefit for multi-shot purposes: your opponent will get frightened by the first shot and possibly take off runnin', to try to avoid the next shot. However, in a single-shot application, like the Max Shot, being loud isn't always necessarily a good thing. Since it has the power for long range shots, you might want to stand back and 'sharpshoot' occasionally.

Especially at longer ranges, Nerf darts can be dodged. The less reaction time you give your opponent, the less likely they will be able to get out of the way of your shot. If your Max Shot is insulated so it doesn't rattle so much when it fires, they won't be able to hear your shot as well, so they'll have to be looking for your piece of flying foam.

Also, you do have to weigh in the intimidation factor that the Max Shot has with its noise. Silencing the gun really just depends on how often you will be using it for each purpose.

[cxwq]

The time it takes a dart to get wherever it's going is well under a second unless the shot is arched to the point of complete inaccuracy.

While it's possible and sometimes quite easy to dodge darts, I've never seen an instance of someone hearing a gun fire, turning and locating the dart mid-flight, and then dodging it. I have, on the other hand, seen people reflexively dodge when the hear a gun fire. Unfortunately, they dodge into the dart as often as they dodge away from it.

Silencing is pointless unless you play with enough cover that you can be truly hidden from someone 30-40' from you.

[Jangadance]

I have... seen people reflexively dodge when the hear a gun fire. Unfortunately, they dodge into the dart as often as they dodge away from it.

Silencing is pointless unless you play with enough cover that you can be truly hidden from someone 30-40' from you.

The point is to give yourself any albeit slight advantage over your opponent. It's obvious that people will startle when they hear the gun being fired, where is the harm in filling up all that empty space in the Max Shot with insulation so they don't have that split-second window? Calling it pointless isn't going to stop that stinging sensation you will feel when a dart hits you in the back and you didn't even hear where it came from.

I would mostly be worried of messing up the inner workings of the gun. Oh, also, if you're going to go through the effort of muffling the sound of the firing mechanism, you had better have the best mod possible on that gun. The Max Shot already has great range, and if you can dampen the noise, I think the gun would be exceedingly nice.

[Zero Talent]

Well, there's always the problem that the barrel is completely open to the plunger tube, and thus fully conducive to the sound of the barrel smacking the front of it. Think megaphone. The only way you're going to prevent that sound is if you make the barrel out of foam or cork, and somehow keep it plugged while simultaneously firing a dart with it. Filling the beast with foam will only buffer sounds transmitted to the sides. Which, I suppose, is good for your ears if you want to sight along the barrel while "sharpshooting."

[Jangadance]

I don't think it's just the plunger thwacking into the tube, there are all of those interlocking plastic pieces inside, and the giant cocking handle that will slam down (unless, I think, you follow through with cxwq's mod in its entirety). On the issue of a PVC/brass barrel becoming a 'megaphone', I think its much more likely that the enemy will become aware of your location faster due to the sound escaping from the big plastic shell.

Anyhow, enough with the naysaying. I hope Sniperwolf and his buddy go ahead with this idea, and relate back how effective it is. The idea is pretty sound to me.

[Spoon]

First off the cocking handle does NOT slam down on the Max Shot. If it does you're just asking for a bruised head. The handle is fully down when the gun is fired.

Second, even if you DO get the stock securely glued, what happens when you want/need to open the gun up? Sloppy sloppy.....If you really want to stick a stock on there (and I agree, stocks can often help accuracy through greater stability), find a way to bolt or screw it on so that it is (somewhat) easily removable so you can still open the gun up if need be.

[six-hungry-ducks]

Silencers don't exactly make the gun silent. They just reduce the sound alot if you make them right, but you will lose distance and sometimes accuracy with a silencer. Though I think it would be pretty cool to shoot people silently and the victim's teamates not know where the shot came from.

[Catch22]

Hello all,
I wanted to introduce myself and answer some questions, I am the friend Sniperwolf spoke of. I just wanted to come and say hello, after seeing these foam guns, I was hooked on them.

There are a million and one mods for the Maxx Shot, it just depends how technical one wishes to get. The internal mechanisms can be quieted with several small mods. The plunger could easily be modified to increase output by about 25%. Being primarily a ranged gun, the Maxx Shot would be a good candidate for a bolt action breach loading system using a gravity feed clip. Hoestly it just depends how creative and technical one wishes to get. Now on to the subject of the

1.) On the subject of glue: If surfaces are prepared correctly and the right epoxies are used, breakage will not easily occur. If you reinforce the joint with metal brackets and screws or bolts, this is an even less likely occurance.

2.) Foam Insulation: Not only will foam insulation quiet down the ambient noise inside the gun, but it will also weigh it down. This in combination with a stock means less recoil and improved accuracy. A heavier gun will absorb more of it's on recoil.

3.) Stealth: Jangadance has already addressed some of the positive issues surrounding stealth. In a single shot application, the seconds that a quiet attack can easily make the difference between return fire and escape.

4.) Silencer: six-hungry-ducks is correct in his statement that a silencer will cause a gun to lose some range and accuracy. However a silencer is an easily removable accessory and when made correctly will signifigantly reduce the plunger and spring noise exiting the barrel.

[SniperWolf]

good to finally see you on the forums Catch-22! Anyway, I woke up this morning and I played with my Maxx Shot with the new stock on it! It is so cool. Thanks for helping me.

[cxwq]

No offense, and welcome to the boards and all, but have you ever been in a Nerf war? It seems perhaps premature for you to lecture us on the benefits of stealth.

I look forward to seeing your plunger enhancements, clip, and bolt action breach. Those sound very useful and we'd love to have a full writeup.

[SniperWolf]

Catch has never been to a large war such as Armageddon or something. But you don't have to go to one to know war tactics. IMO i think a semi-silenced gun would be good. And there is such thing as stealth in Nerf, it's just hard to do it.

[Catch22]

You are correct, I have never been in a large nerf war and I cannot begin to tell anyone how to play. My point was that stealth in any form can be a valuable asset and should never be overlooked or discounted.

'Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected'
~Sun-tzu the Art of War

[SniperWolf]

Zen Nerfing...


...I like

[Spoon]

There are no nerf war tactics. You just play until you get a feel for things, and then you make stuff up as you go. Pre-war set tactics never work, and are usually much to complicated. Nerf wars (and I'm talking 10+ size wars here) are simply a bunch of 12-18 year olds running around shooting each other in a vaguely organized fashion. All that matters is how good your gun is, how good your aim is, and how well you can dodge people's shots. "Tactics" really only come into play when you're playing an objective-based game with large teams that have a set commander. On the fly tactics or strategies can sometimes be created and work, but that's on the fly. Nothing pre-planned usually works, unless it's ridiculously simple.

I'd like to see a full explanation of how you can inrease plunger performance by 25%. It'd be even better if you can actually do it and test it.

Lots of people agree that the Max Shot, just like any long range single shot nerf gun, would be better when fitted with a bolt action breech loader. The reality of designing and (heres the kicker) CONSTRUCTING one that works and improves the gun is much more difficult. When you start working with telescoping brass barrels (which currently is what is required to get maximum range using Stefan micros), you'll find that having a bolt action breech loader is virtually impossible due to the fact that the dart must be forcibly twisted into the brass constriction. If not, it will get drastically less range.

Still, I'd like to hear your ideas, but I'd like even more for someone to get off their butt and BUILD something. We've had some success (boltsniper, most notably) with breech loaders and bolt action loaders in homemade nerf guns, but it's much more difficult with modded nerf guns.

And as for the glue thing.....epoxy is fine and dandy for holding small pieces that are NOT directly load bearing. However anybody who has tried to fix (for example) a Crossbow plunger with epoxy knows that it just tends to FSU. Nerf wars (at least the kind we have out here, I can't speak for all nerf wars) can be incredibly strenuous on nerf guns, and theres not a single war I've been to where at least a couple people's guns break and/or fall apart. Now epoxy reinforced with bolts is definately a better idea, but I'd still look at it as bolts reinforced with epoxy.

That and glue just tends to make things more difficult to disassemble later, which is really annoying.

[SniperWolf]

I totally agree with you Spoon. But, my Maxx Shot is never coming apart because there is just too much glue and other crap for it to get taken apart. My plan is just to buy a few Maxx Shots, and mod each one differently. My Maxx Shot can be compared to Groove's X-bow which is also never coming apart.

[Catch22]

I understand what you're saying Spoon, and I think you read far too much into my posts. I'm not talking maneuvers, I'm just talking about being shot in the ass. How many of you have been shot in the ass by someone who you didn't notice. That is stealth. Why not be able to do it with a quiet gun so that you may even have a shot at a clean escape or a second shot?

As for building my ideas, I actually went shopping today on my lunch break for some parts to try to fabricate a few items. To improve the performance of the Maxx Shot for instance, could increase the stroke and also the volume of the air chamber. To increase stroke, and reduce noise I will be using 1/8"x 1/4" aluminum stock and modify the cocking mechanism. The plunger itself could use some work for a better seal.

Once I figure this out, I'll attempt to mess with the bolt action breech. I agree it is difficult, however with a little ingenuity anything can be accomplished. For now, I'd like a gun that fires... (mine is in pieces at the moment awaiting work)

I'm not trying to come here and steal anyone's thunder, I just happen to be an inventive person, I like to tinker and play with ideas. Call it reinventing the wheel if you like. Anyhow, you guys have some great ideas, I can't wait to play around and try some of them.

[SniperWolf]

yea... I don't think I'm gonna do anything else with my MS. Why mess with success?

[Spoon]

Well good luck extending the chamber, though I'm not quite clear on how you intend to do that without cutting and lengthening the plunger rod (which, while a simple idea, will be hard to make reliable), and fabricating an extension of the chamber, which would be difficult to maintain a good seal, but not too bad. Problem is then you have to re-do the catch mechanism and extend the amount the plunger is pulled back by the cocking handle. I'm looking forward to seeing tests when this is done. You hopefully won't be replacing the compression chamber entirely, as then the gun would technically qualify as a homemade. Though it'd still be pretty interesting.

FYI we measure nerf gun ranges "flat", meaning zero angle to the horizon, just parallel to ground, at shoulder height. Just fire on a flat surface and MEASURE IT. It bugs us when people come here and say "OMFG my gun shoots 100 feet!!" and when we ask if they measured it they give some bullshit answer about walking it and counting steps or how far it is compared to their yard or something. So measuring is good. Pictures of the mod(s) are also good. We always like seeing new stuff in that department.

Oh and my tactics rant really wasn't pertaining to anything you said, it just brought it to mind. I do that a lot.

[Jangadance]

On the "plunging side" of the plunger, just after the clear o-ring, there is a bit of a gap. The plunger rod attaches to the 'head' that holds the clear band, and there is some places where air could escape. Do you think it would increase the effectiveness of the gun if it was covered up?

[TheHaze]

I really dont think covering it up would make too much of a diference. It's not going to hurt to try though. I just dont think there is to much air coming through there.

[Nerf929]

Any progress on the Max Shot, yet? It's been about a week or two.

[superadaquabat]

Every nerf war I've been in I realize a few things, one my guns are totally ill-prepared, two I can't hit a thing!, three it takes forever to load my bloody gun!, four in a standoff those blasted airttech 3000's you never shoot first, and five my guns are totally ill-prepared. In my opinion, once you go to a nerf war its pretty easy to now what your doing wrong and what your problems are. My biggest problems were always missing and always loosing to stupid multishot guns of quick firing madness. People say spring guns have great rates of fire. Hup pff!! Try reloading when someone with a 3000 starts running at you after you missed your shot. Blast! Your gone! It's reloading that takes forever, not pumping or cocking. So, areas requiring improvemnt are accuracy and rate of fire. Now, unless you want to get all crazy scientific like bolt loser, accuracy will just have to get better with practice. Now for rate of fire, I took a air tech 2000 turret, already made, high quality hasbro orangey plastic goodness and stuck it onto my springy max shot, woohoo! Tested the gun, asweome. Turn Pull Pow, Turn Pull Pow. Turn Pull Pow and do it once again! Four shots like that. Now accuracy is not so much of an issue. I miss, they miss, i rush, they run, whamo they're down a life. Its all pretty good. Unfortunately the stupid turret fell off the second day. But thats not the point. My point is there are many ways to improve nerf guns, you can do a lot of work for miniscule things like sound which plays a miniscule if at all role in nerfwars, or you can go after the big things, which you notice rather quickly when you've had your first encounter with another nerfer.