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An In-line, High Capacity Clip

Or, high-capacity removable barrel

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#1 Carbon

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:02 PM

I've been working on clip systems as of late. This is my latest system:

SNAP-MAG.JPG

I installed it on the end of the SNAP-1. The white tube is the clip, in-line with the plunger. No modifications were necessary to the SNAP, as it's made out of 1.25" PVC and fittings...it slipped on the end.

This is how it breaks apart for loading. Not as elegant as a clip, perhaps, but effective.

parts.JPG

The clip is just PVC. The reason it works is in the 1.25" to .5" endcap reducer (same one as used on the end of the SNAP before.)

chamber.JPG

The inside surface of the reducer is already curved...I just sanded it so it was flush with the inside of the clip, and curved into the surface of the .5" PVC. I also beveled the .5" PVC as well, and then sanded the entire union...it's smooth, like one contiguous piece. The barrel is 17/32" brass inside of 9/16", sealed at the end with hot glue. The end of the 17/32" in the chamber is flared to the same OD as the 9/16"; it doesn't slide through anymore, and doesn't give any surfaces for the dart to catch on. Dropping a dart into the clip channels it right to the barrel.

After dropping in the leader dart, it's loaded in groups of four:

loading.JPG

The current setup allows me to load 13 stefans (I use 1.5" darts). Loading and firing is accomplished by pointing the gun straight down, and pulling back the plunger, then aim and fire. Repeat until depleted. The air pressure of the plunger forces the darts forward, making one chamber and fire. Out of a magazine of 13, I get maybe two or three misfires. (Lubing the clip helps with that) When it happens, just shake the barrel downward, then charge the plunger and fire. I can get off a shot about once every 3 seconds or so.

I may add a foregrip to the clip to give a batter way to hold onto it, and not make it look like an outsize pistol.


Edited by Carbon, 17 May 2016 - 11:11 PM.

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#2 ompa

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:12 PM

Whoa. It's an in-line version of the RSCB barrel. Very nicely done. Although wouldn't a problem present itself it the cluster of 4 darts ended up keeping eachother from firing? Or is that basically what the occasional misfire is a result of?

~ompa
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#3 Renegade

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:14 PM

The darts are all inside the white section of PVC?
I like it. So it works like how with brass(and other barrel mateials), one can stuff 3 or more darts inside, and shoot one off each shot using a springer? I don't understand how it can push the other darts forward if they're stuck in that 4 dart cluster. Please explain what caused the misfires. And, on occasion will it fire 2 or more darts out at once?

Edited by Renegade, 25 February 2006 - 09:15 PM.

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#4 Carbon

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:30 PM

The funny thing is, I was surprised as hell that it worked, myself. Yeah, all the darts are in the white PVC. I made the barrel end for another purpose (a shelled chambering system), but then found how well it channeled bare stefans.

Part of why it works is that the four dart clusters are very loose. I put them in that way so they fon't have any chance to tangle around or get crooked at all. Near as I can guess, a missfire occurs when all four darts hit the end of the barrel at the same time, and one of them can't get into the lead. This doesn't happen often, and the additional barrel shake jostles 'em enough to "reset" them, as it were.

About once every 30 darts or so, I've gotten a double fire. Since I've been feeding them in fours, none of them have been firing backwards (which was a problem when I was feeding like THIRST's T-clip.
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#5 m15399

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:33 PM

That looks like it would decrease range quite a bit (air must travel around the stefans and must fill space inside clip). How much range are you losing?
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#6 davidbowie

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:37 PM

Excellent!

Yeah, I was wondering about the dead space myself. How well does it shoot?

It kinda reminds me of a cloud BBMG, especially the inline variation I've been messing with.
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#7 Carbon

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:40 PM

I have to check range, still. The force with which they're hitting doesn't seem to be decreased, though. I'll be back in 5 minutes with a report.

EDIT: 59' flat, with about 3-4' of skip or so. A standard muzzle-loader on the SNAP-1 gets about 10 more feet. Not a bad trade-off, I'd say.

Edited by Carbon, 25 February 2006 - 09:47 PM.

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#8 m15399

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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:51 PM

Hmm that's pretty good. I think it needs a larger chamber though. The chamber is no longer 4:1 because you have to subtract the dead space in the clip. Maybe you should shorten the/swap out a shorter barrel and see what happens.
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#9 Enigma1313

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 01:01 AM

Genius. Absolutey genius. Your simple-yet effective methods of homemade building never cease to amaze me, carbon.
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#10 Carbon

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 03:15 PM

It kinda reminds me of a cloud BBMG, especially the inline variation I've been messing with.

I had to do a bit of searching to see exactly what you meant by cloud BBMG, but you're right, it's the exact same concept...just with a plunger (found some cool reading over at spudtech.com, too).

The cloud system makes me think...why not add an air pressure system to this, instead of a plunger? If the airflow was great enough, it could work...and that would be a *fearsome* Nerf MG. If it doesn't jam.

I think I need to try that.
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#11 davidbowie

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 03:36 PM

Yes, that would be a fearful MG.

Are you a member at spudtech? If so, try searching for "Vogt Pattern", or DR's golfball or tennis ball machine gun. That might be a better way to hook up an air supply.
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#12 boltsniper

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 10:07 PM

Very nice. I did a similar type thing on my first homemade using a bike seat post. The throat of the seat post was a perfect barrel size for 5/8" FBR but the barrel section was only about 1.5" long. I worked the system into the rifle in the foregrip and rerouted the CO2. The seat post would hold about 10 1" stefans. When you fired it, typically 3 would fire from the barrel and go about 20 feet or so on average. I noticed that there was a lot of wasted gas around the darts before they were sealed and fired.

Link to the thread from years ago:
http://nerfhaven.com...p?showtopic=210

Your system is very impressive and I am especially impressed with the ranges. A loss of that little with that kind of system is very good. It doesn`t seem to add any bulk to the gun either.
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#13 Carbon

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:00 PM

That's what that silver thing is! I've always wondered what the secondary barrel was made out of....

The size where it's at right now handles pretty well...total length is 29", and the actual blaster body is 13". The same clip system would mount just as well on the SNAP-2, but the current config would be almost silly long...the entire gun would nearly hit my sternum. I could see cutting it down and maybe using a 5 shot clip for that gun, and saving length. I use the SNAP-2 for target shooting, anyway.

Air loss before seal would be a big problem in making an air powered version of this gun...not to mention the huge clip that would need to be pressurized before firing. I was thinking, maybe an air pressure machine gun version would be a good candidate for nanos...a smaller ID clip, maybe make them an inch long....less volume to pressurize.
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#14 ShortShit

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:08 PM

Very Cool! I love it and see that it's just the beginning of something that can be improved as well. Funtioning MUCH like the RSCB Barrel system I adapted.
~I found the same thing range wise, that with the extra space about 6-8ft were lost from my max range without the barrel adaption, but having so many shots is quite worth while.

What I can see as a practical application for spring guns is a smaller scale version of this with extra clips.
IE instead of one big long clip, a smaller clip fitting 5 darts, with several more 5 dart clips to pop in, even just refilling would be cool. If the clip held less darts, there would be less dead space, and less decrease range.
I dig it!

EDIT: Looks like while I was posting you replyed with the small clip idea as well. nm!

Edited by ShortShit, 26 February 2006 - 11:21 PM.

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#15 m15399

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Posted 26 February 2006 - 11:19 PM

I really don't see the purpose in making a full auto gun unless you plan on taking on 20 people armed with stock blasters. That would actually pretty awesome to pull out your full auto gun and mow down 20 nerfers in 3 seconds... Nanos sound like a good idea, though. Do you have an air compressor? If I were you, I'd make a portable auto with a 10+ gallon tank in a backpack.

Edit: Try a nano barrel on it as it is and tell us the ranges. I'm always interested with ranges on different sized darts ;)

Edited by m15399, 26 February 2006 - 11:21 PM.

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#16 Carbon

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 12:25 PM

Shortshit: What's really interesting is that your RSCB system has a lot in common with a standard cloud BBMG, like davidbowie was talking about (air going in at the bottom, with the barrel right above it.) I still think it's weird that these systems work with foam at all...

Yeah, I don't think this would be practical for most springers because of the air volumes involved...it works on mine because my plunger is pretty huge. I was thinking of nanos just in terms of an auto version, but you're right, they very well could work as a smaller clip (with nanos) on other springers. Some 3/8" FBR is on my shopping list for tonight.

m15399: *heh* I plan on making it full auto because it'd be damn fun. Aside from the amusement value, I could see it as being a great anti-rush/guard weapon (in say, CTF). One person could conceivably hold out against several, with a reload cycle a *lot* shorter than an RF20. I need to find out what size K&S fits the FBR I have around here....
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#17 THIRST

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 12:43 PM

Blue arch nerfer and BMZ will tell you when I tried to make an automatic homemade (was 6-8 months ago, for tinh), I used something very very similar to that barrel design. I dont know how the hell you got yours to work, but mine didn't. One or two darts would fire, then none would. All the air would escape, pushing the darts to the side. It was based off of a type of homemade automatic airsoft gun barrel, but I put it horizontally, like yours.

:S How did your work ><

Edited by THIRST, 27 February 2006 - 12:45 PM.

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#18 Carbon

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 04:06 PM

:S How did your work ><

I've been thinking about that, and I can think of two different things...

1) The barrel end shape. It's not so much a cup, as shaped like one of those "penny vortex" things....the center is a very deep cone, and assists in channeling in one dart.

2) My stefans don't have a dome - the glue is flush with the surface (or a little below), so I have less for them to potentially catch on - either on the side, or each other. I could imagine darts with a pronounced dome would get caught up on the end a lot easier...
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#19 davidbowie

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Posted 27 February 2006 - 04:20 PM

Now that I think of it, an RSCB barrel might be a better choice for this, as it's pretty much a direct translation of a Vogt Pattern gun.

I have a 10+ gallon backpack tank, and it's not quite comfortable. It weighs over 60 pounds. Now that I think about it, though, it's closer to 20 gallons.

The best way, in my opinion, is to modify a talon paintball gun like Boltsniper did for his co2 rifle, except without the cam he added. Then hook that onto an RSCB or Carbon Clip.

Another thought: If you were to have a carbon clip with a 45 degree bend (think Halo SMG) and the air supply coming up from the bottom, connected by a hose, would it work? A Nerf SMG replica would be awesome.
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#20 Carbon

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:02 AM

Try a nano barrel on it as it is and tell us the ranges. I'm always interested with ranges on different sized darts :rolleyes:

I got some 3/8" FBR and some 13/32" brass tonight. I quickly cobbled together one nano (without straightening), and wrapped the brass in e-tape until I got a decent fit in some 1/2" PVC, then shoved that in the end of the SNAP-2. I used the full 12" of brass, not gonna cut it down yet. Anyway, with that horribly inefficient setup, I got 83' flat. The SNAP-2 gets 74' with micros, so nanos could compensate for the range loss with the clip system. Now to make a barrel adapter so I can use 13/32" in my clip....
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#21 ShortShit

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 01:13 PM

seems like ammo is gonna get smaller and smaller 'till we are using BB's! heh.
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#22 m15399

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Posted 28 February 2006 - 07:39 PM

I think anything below a nano is not really considered nerf... I mean, you can't take a toothpick, stick some clay on the end, and call it a nerf dart.
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#23 KirbySaysHi

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 02:59 AM

I was just wondering what mechanism you used for your trigger? That's the part that always stumps me when dealing with homemades.

Also, your plunger looks really heavy with the handle on the end of it... is it, or am I being deceived?

Great work though, it looks super solid and quite simple when compared to other clips and loading mechanisms!

Copy!
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#24 Carbon

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 07:10 AM

It's a clothespin with a nail running through it. The nail extends into the PC, where it can catch onto the back endcap of the plunger. You can see specifics on it in the "First attempt at a homebrew gun" thread.

The plunger is a bit heavy, yeah. The SNAP-1 has the handle, and the SNAP-2 has a plunger which is twice as long. If I were to optimize performance, it would be to reduce weight someow. Maybe on the SNAP-3.

Edited by Carbon, 01 March 2006 - 07:15 AM.

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#25 WratH

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 05:30 PM

You could drill like a billion small holes in your plunger shaft, well maybe not a billion, but a lot. Just not so much as to compromise the structural integrity.
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