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Star Wars Revenge Of The Sith

The Final chapter?

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#26 Zero Talent

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:03 AM

Yeah, he really did hit the B-movie goal. That endeared me to the movie... The horrible acting reminded me of A New Hope.

I think the defining problem of this trilogy was, quite simply, the Jedi. After the original trilogy, and the rather simple lightsaber duels inherent, a lot of fan fiction really blew up the power of the Jedi to proportions outside of the original trilogy. Kevin Anderson's books involve a single Jedi apprentice pulling a ship out of a star from lightyears away, for instance. When the new trilogy came out, it had to compete with inane expectations.

Come on, admit it... When you saw the duel with Darth Maul open in the first movie, you totally forgot about your festering hate of "Little Ani" and Jar Jar Binks (along with just about every other animated character), and proceeded to admire the flashy swordplay with rapt attention.

The problem is that the ostentatious action card can only be played once (contrary to the Final Fantasy series, you can only blow up the earth once before it gets silly).

To me, it seemed like Lucas designed these films to cater to the 12-year-old boy in all of us: the one that imagined crazy lightsaber battles and force powers; the one that dreamed of complex planetary battles and speeder chases; the one that imagined his own spacecraft in a seedy universe of bounty hunters and spice runners; the one that didn't really pay much attention to the romantic subplot because girls were still sort of boring.
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#27 Talio

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:27 AM

To the person who said read the books. Lucas has said many times that the books are not the same from the movies, they take place in a different Universe. If they didn't, there are more inconsistancy's then you can shake a stick at, including Chewie dying 3 times. (Oh my god, you killed Chewie. You Bastard!) Besides, I know the storyline, you know the story line, average Joe does not know the story line. It's still bad form.

Zero, I pretty much could not agree more. Maul was almost as cool as Empire Vader. I really think I would have like the entire trillogy better if they had him in there. At least then we would have had a clear enemy, which we really didn't have the rest of the time. Sure there was dumb stuff in Episode 1, but I can actually watch Episode 1, and the Terry Brooks book really wasn't all that bad.

However, I half way disagree with you. Jedi are rediculously powerful, but that's where I think they went wrong in these flicks. They weren't protectors of the republic, they were politicians who also happened to be ninja's in wizards robes. They used the force for attack in just about every movie and for the most part, didn't seem like Jedi. In the original trilogy and expanded universe, I thought Jedi were cool. In this one, I felt they were chumps. I can say very easily, that I didn't like the Jedi at all. I think if they had captured the mystery and sacrifice it was to be a Jedi Knight, it would have been great.

What can I say, Star Wars is just dead to me now.

Talio.
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#28 VeggieBoy 3000

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 01:12 PM

Darth Maul was such a badass. He really had potential to be a freaking awesome character if they would have developed him instead of killing him off in the first one. Maybe make general grievous actually Darth Maul in a robot suit, because of his massive injuries in Episode 1? (a precursor to vader) That would've been badass.

On another note... I have a question for those of you who know starwars more than me... (most notably Talio) Why is yoda so weak int he original trilogy? I mean even though he took a beating in his fight with the emperor, he still has a ton of fight in him at the end, and palpatine didn't incapacitate him at all during the fight. If he's 900 or whatever when he dies, he's only like 880 in episode 3. 20 years in that long of a life span is nothing, but he deteriorates sooo much in just that short amount of time. I don't get it.
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#29 Talio

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:18 PM

Ok, lets keep in mind what came first, and what came after it to fuck it all up.

Yoda is 900 years old when he dies, yes. He states this, and look as good, you will not. Lets also keep in mind that Yoda has no need for strength or size. He's a Jedi, and his ally is the force. All his strength comes from the force. He's approximately 897 in Empire and can pick up an X wing. No physical strength needed, only mental.

Now, in the prequels, I think they really fucked up Yoda's character. I don't doubt the homey can swing a lightsaber with the best of them, but again, Yoda is a friggin ninja! I agree it makes no sence and it's an intellectual inconsistancy of the flick. I don't think doing ballet style lightsaber duels is exactly Yoda's style and is one of my major grievences of the prequels. However, there is one case in Sith that I think they nailed Yoda's part.

When Yoda confronts Palpatine, he walks into the room and there are two Empirial Gaurds on either side. It should be noted that they should have been much more of a part of the movie. In the expanded universe (which in all fairness, does take part in another universe according to Lucas) these gaurds are claimed to be the elite of the elite, armed with elctro-magnetic vibroblade type weapons (don't quote me on that, I feel a little fuzzy on the exact details of their staffs) and are a major part in the extinction of the Jedi (again, according to expanded universe). There are many Jedi who had serious problems fighting off these gaurds. However Yoda, in his unique style and badass-ness, walks into the room, and the two gaurds turn to strike, only to be tossed and killed in a single motion. Yoda was defending himself, and takes out both of these gaurds in about half a second. This is how I feel Yoda should have came off in the entire film. Super powerful, but not in strength, only in mental capacity and control of the force.

Now, with Yoda's saber skills, I said before, I'm sure he knows how to weild one. Yoda is a great warrior and has almost a mullienia of experience under his belt. However, he's old, and physically weak. So if we were to take the fact that Yoda has extreme mental and spiritual power coupled with a weak and small frame, that he would be more conservative about his swings. I always thought we would see an end-of-matrix-one-Neo style fight come from Yoda. Being as he's super smart and basically knows tons of stuff before it happens, he would be able to react to every swing. However, in these flicks he just comes off as another Jedi. Poor form in my mind.

So much could have been done with Yoda fighting. So much could have been done with the franchise. It's hard to believe that Lucas was able to fuck up Star Wars. I honestly thought it was impossible to make anything crappy that had the Star Wars name.

What would have been an awesome battle would be Maul vs. Yoda. Braun vs. Brain. Maul was quick, no doubt. But how would he fair against a Jedi Master who could sence his every move and dodge or block every hit?

Some day I will write up my own version of how I think the prequels should have been done, that bases more emphasis on what's already known about the characters and happenings surrounding the clone wars. Keep the cool stuff, trash the garbage, and just make a decent storyline. Someday.

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#30 MattPaintballer

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:32 PM

I agree with Talio.

Yoda is the shiznite. But it didn't seem like that in the movie. I always think of Yoda as the old, short, little, extremely smart dude that can do a whole bunch of flips and confuse the enemy while they just stand there in awe. But that doesn't really happen in the movie. LAME!

I liked when he killed the Emperial Guards when he walked into Palpatine's room. That was cool.

And what was up at the end when Anakin and Obi Wan were fighting? Anakin was litterally on fire and had his arms and legs cut off Monty Python style, and all he said was "I hate you." What the hell?! I would've been like "HOLY ****ING **** IM ON ****ING FIRE SOMEBODY ****ING HELP ME GOD DAMNIT IM ****ING DYING I MADE A MISTAKE FORGIVE ME HELP ME I HAVE NO LIMBS!!!"

And not only that, but when he was sitting there with no limbs, instantly Monty Python came into mind. I could just see Anakin saying "Come here! I'll bite your legs off! Pansy! We'll call it a draw."
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#31 Talio

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 03:48 PM

You were like a brother to me Anakin. A younger brother that I reminded daily he was a bitch and needed to learn his place.

Your breaking my heart Anni! Herk....Blah! (via RvB)

You were the chosen one! Wait a minute...shit you were the chosen one. Balance ot the force. Holy shit, there's about 50 of us and two baddies. Crap, we really should have thought this one through. Holy shit! Aw man, I'm alive. Yoda's alive. Your...well god, there's no drama here, we know what happens to you. Palpatine is still around. Aw crap...two on two. I guess that is balance. Shit. (walking away while still mumbling, leaving anakin to burn)

I hate you! It burns, it burns us precious! You wants it for yourself! They stoles it from us, nasty little hobbitses!

Yeah, I did alot of laughing in the movie. Got punched in the arm by my woman during the "You're breaking my heart" line.

Oh and by the way. Seems that I might have been wrong about Mon Mothma. Turns out the senatorial photage was all cut in favor for the oh so powerful Anakin storyline.

http://www.starwars....tion/f20050526/

There were a couple of things I was mistaken about, mostly linking back to the fact that I didn't think the movie could be lame enough to put an Egg in of the Falcon. There are thousands of corillian vessles, yet we HAVE to confirm that this one is the Falcon. LAME!

The part about Mothma still doesn't make sence why they cut it. She's the leader of the rebellion and doesn't even get a credited part. And look at that woman! She's perfect. That's gotta be the best casting of the entire prequel and they cut her part! WTF Lucas?!

Again, everyone says they movies tie together well. The Anakin story ties together well I suppose, however there could have been a little more sublty, not to mention it was really the lamest part of the whole flick. Anytime Vader was on the screen, I just seemed to shut off, it was boring.

I can't figure why they cut the only truely important part of the political story when they put all that other crap in the past flicks. Why?!

The more I read, the more dead Star Wars becomes to me. Do it Frodo!

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#32 Viper

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 04:12 PM

I thought episode 3 was great. The dialogue was a little dry, like he was trying to hard to portray feudal europe meets star battles. I thought the rebel alliance was implicitly explained as Yoda etc. group together at the end. I did notice a great deal of contradiction in the JEDI way, as in reality they were just a little-bit-nicer siths. Think about when Mace Windu tried to kill the emporer when he was down, which was wasn't the jedi way and Vader defended the emporer. The best part was the development of Anakin into Darth Vader through a series of events that start out being what may seem to harmless.

Does anyone know where I can find the scripts for episodes 7,8, and 9?
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#33 mayhem

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 04:16 PM

I love Star wars.
Always have, always will.

Episode 1: A bit for kids... I still enjoyed it.
Episode 2: Better than 1, not incredible... still enjoyed it alot.
Episode 3: This one blew me away, seriously liked it A LOT.

I've noticed that people sometimes get angry/upset/mad/sad/dissapointed when a sequel/prequel doesn't turn out how they wanted it to. Don't go to a movie with expectations, go to a movie with curiosity. I mean you don't follow a class because you know everything about it, you go because you're going to learn something.

I saw the same thing happen to "the matrix".

And what was up at the end when Anakin and Obi Wan were fighting? Anakin was litterally on fire and had his arms and legs cut off Monty Python style, and all he said was "I hate you." What the hell?! I would've been like "HOLY ****ING **** IM ON ****ING FIRE SOMEBODY ****ING HELP ME GOD DAMNIT IM ****ING DYING I MADE A MISTAKE FORGIVE ME HELP ME I HAVE NO LIMBS!!!"


Please have your legs cut off, your non mechanical arm severed, the cloths you're wearing set aflame, your best friend and mentor "betray" you, have the knowledge that the woman you love is goin to die AND THEN come back to the forum and tell me what the line should have been.

Edited by mayhem, 28 May 2005 - 04:21 PM.

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#34 MattPaintballer

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 04:28 PM

Well other than what I posted I thought it was a good movie.

But mayhem see Obi Wan didn't betray him, he betrayed Obi Wan and then faced the consequences.

It would've been better if they played the Black Knight scene of Monty Python on one half of the screen at the same time as the Anakin vs. Obi scene on the other half of the screen.

That would've been perfect.

Edited by MattPaintballer, 28 May 2005 - 04:29 PM.

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#35 Talio

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 05:22 PM

Actually in that list Mayhem, I would have to seriously consider each and every last instance to understand. Sure my master betrayed me but I was evil and....my woman...she....uh....wow, that's a pretty shade of blue....that looks like....(deep breath)....FIRE! Holy shit, FIRE motherfucker, quick get some water.

Seriously, I think being on fire does somehow constitute immediate attention regaurdless of how crappy a day goes. Anakin wasn't exactly doing well, but yeah, I agree with Matt here, putting out your clothes does take some presidence and priority over your woman leaving you.

As far as going with curiosity, well....there is none. I was curious. I was hoping somehow Lucas would do something that really would blow me away, but what I got was terrible acting, scenery by crayola, stupid creatures, poor connectivity, and just about the driest story I've ever heard.

Sorry, I'm still no fan.

The greatest adventure, doth lie ahead.....

Bilbo is the man,

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#36 baghead

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:32 PM

when he was sitting there with no limbs, instantly Monty Python came into mind. I could just see Anakin saying "Come here! I'll bite your legs off! Pansy! We'll call it a draw."

me too... me too...

I am Sooo re-dubing that scene once the DVD comes out! (or sooner, rumors say one of my homies already has a bootleg)

My reaction to said scene: :D :lol: :cry: :w00t: :P

Edited by baghead, 28 May 2005 - 08:43 PM.

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#37 AirApache

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:27 PM

Stop using damn smilies, it pisses me off.

As for Yoda, I agree with you Talio. However, Lucas had to make Yoda do something like that because everyone when watching the original trilogy KNEW Yoda was extremely powerful, and Lucas had to put in something spectacular from Yoda in the prequels or disappoint his fans. As for Anakin, seriously people, Anakin, if you watched him throughout the episodes, doesn't blabber on like you prepubscent kids when something bad happens to him. He has a lot of internal fighting going on in his mind and when he says something, it will be thought out.
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#38 Evil

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 08:10 PM

If we are to preserve anything holy on this earth then we must kill Hayden Chistiansen on sheer principle. Corky from "Life Goes On" would have made a better Anakin Skywalker. Hehe, if you don't know Corky from "Life Goes On" then google it. Some of you I know will get it.
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#39 mayhem

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 08:10 AM

But mayhem see Obi Wan didn't betray him, he betrayed Obi Wan and then faced the consequences.


I'm sorry, that was confusing. BUT I am sure that's how anakin felt. In his mind the jedi have always underappreciated him, and now his master is there to kill him.

Talio, I certainly respect your opinion. I can see how someone could feel that way. I'm a bit younger than you, and I'm sure that has something to do with it. The acting didn't bother me very much, and all the flashing lights and cool effect kept me entertained. The lizard thing...I thought it was cool, even its noise, but I do remember thinking that many people would find it annoying. AND, I tend to not dislike a movie very often...

O yeah, LOTR is awesome. But I like the books better. Poor Faramir, I feel sorry for his movie-character every time I watch it.

BY THE WAY: WHO/WHAT IS GRIEVOUS, that was just not explained enough. Dooku should've been a better fighter in III and darth maul should have survived through at leas 1, if not 2 of the movies.
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#40 MysticNinja

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 09:56 AM

Iím not a true StarWars fan, never really have been. It was an interesting trilogy when I was young that I might have caught on TV.

I enjoyed episode three for one reason. I new the basic story line, yet I wasnít attached to it. Episode three was pretty good as a stand alone movie to me, the single thing that really made it good. To me it was just a movie taking place in an established and enjoyed universe. Of coarse it was cheesy some times but all sci-fi with love scenes (or sci-fi period) usually is. When Lucas made whatís now 4 it was also supposed to be truly good as a stand alone, not part of a series. Everyone wanted more; they got it and then didnít like it. Anyways it was probably better to me just because it was free tickets on opening day, makes any movie better.


What I really donít understand is why did Obi not just kill Anikan. Fuck you let a guy who was Ďlike your botherí slowly and painfully burn to death, twisted mercy, or torrid revenge?
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#41 Ash

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 07:04 PM

I'd have to say I enjoyed the flick. Granted, the acting was horrible and the special effects were mostly sub-par, just like ep. 1 and 2. However, this one was a tad bit darker and more depressing in some ways... I'd say for the most part, however, it was fun to watch. If you think too much about it, you find faults. I didn't read about half the posts leading up to this, just firgured I'd add my two cents. I felt that the Anakin to Darth Vader transformation was a bit rushed... as was most of the story line. It's as if Lucas realized he had a whole shitload left to resolve and kind of shoved it all into the least amount of time he could... all the while dilly dallying with stupid shit (most of the first have of the movie) that really wasn't terribly important. In any case, it was more enjoyable that ep1 and 2, but still not redeeming enough to make me respect Lucas again.

One thing I did see mentioned was Talio saying that Yoda wouldn't be the best with a saber because he was old and weak... but I'm not seeing how strength would really play into using a light saber.
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#42 Bad Karma

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 08:08 PM

I felt that the Anakin to Darth Vader transformation was a bit rushed...

You know what...That's exactly what I was thinking when I went to see it the second time.
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#43 AirApache

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 08:38 PM

I think Yoda needs a doo-rag.
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