71 replies to this topic

[taita cakes]

Pineapple, on Apr 2 2005, 12:36 PM, said:

As for me, since the moment I was able to, I have had a Do Not Resuscitate, Power of Attorney, and Living Will should the unavoidable occur a little sooner than expected. So basically, "keep the plugs out, let him fizzle, then pass the organs around!"

Powerful stuff Piney, and I understand completely.

In reference to Terri, euthanasia has always been a topical issue. If the supreme court made a ruling on euthanasia tomorrow, then high schools would have to revert to old abortion for their issues discussion. My grandmother was a complete vegetable, and there is no real way to describe the torment you see in someone lying there, dead, but alive. She faded, and eventually died. She was completely unresponsive to everything. It's just a part of life, but if we had a choice, she would not have sat there, cold, hard, rigid, for 8 hours a day in front of a television for weeks, maybe months of her life.

And the Pope? Well, we had a "Breaking News" report today about it, that interupted regular programming, basically to say that one of his assistants was quoting as saying that jesus had already opened the gates, and that he was expecting the pope tonight or tomorrow.

But you know what, it's just what happens when you peg so much hope, love and dependence on one man. He's mortal. Deal with it.

[Black Wrath]

Uncle Hammer, on Apr 1 2005, 08:16 PM, said:

On the shiavo thing or whatever her name is... For those who are religous, it doesn't matter if there in a coma forever and are never going to wake up, or if someone is living off a machine or tube. You do not pull the plug. It is gods duty to end your life not someone elses. God chooses when someone should go in a situation like this. Not other people. My two cents worth..

You're an idiot.

[taita cakes]

Black Wrath, on Apr 2 2005, 01:07 PM, said:

9th on the all time poster's list... and climbing. So sad.

No. You Sir. Are an idiot.

Calm down, people are entitled to opinions. Just some opinions don't count ^^

[Formerly Sane]

First Terry Schivo or how ever you spell her name: I think keeping people alive on machines is fine if you think the person will recover. But she had been practically dead for 15 years, and there wasn't really any hope that she would recover. And all keeping her alive did was waste money and who knows, if she was in fact able to think I doubt she would want to be locked inside her body like that for 15 years without being able to talk or move anyway. I guess it's hard to let your daughter go if someone wants to let her die, but sometimes you have to make tough decisions like that. So, I guess it's unfortunate that that whole thing happened, but keeping her alive like that just wasn't logical.

And as for the pope, I'm catholic and I'm sad that he's in this condition, but after reading this thread it all kind of makes more sense. I mean, most people should fear dying because they don't know if they're going to heaven or hell yet, but he's the pope. He pretty much knows he's going. So if you look on the bright side of things, it's really not that bad that he'll be gone soon.

There's my 2 cents. Don't spend it all in one place.

[Talio]

Hey, guess what. Anyone who refered to this topic with something along the lines of, "You're an idiot", way to go. That'll show them. Let them know that their intellegence is low, without any proof to back it up. Mission accomplished.

As far as how I feel on this stuff, I actually don't care. The Pope is old, and he is a good man. I hope he passes well. As far as Terry Schiavo, it was a civil case that's no ones business but the families. I don't care if it's on the news, it's none of my business, and it's none of your's either.

Fucking voyuers,

Talio.

[Suave]

Ash pretty much hit the issue on the dot for me.

Also Piney did, but that's because he's just that good.

If the chick was actually the definition for the term "braindead" Then she wasn't alive.

Machines were keeping her blood flowing and her oxygen streaming. That's it. Keeping the body fresh.

Edited by Suave, 02 April 2005 - 12:08 AM.

[AirApache]

Wow I didn't think that this forum was so.... dunno, I don't have a good adjective. It's really hard for me to believe that you guys would be almost enjoying these deaths (okay, near death for one).

For me personally I thought that the whole "Terry needs communion" thing was a stupid and obvious last ditch attempt to put back on the feeding tube. I'm astonished that Bush would pass such a law. And I know you guys are gonna say something like "yeah cause he's an incompetent leader" but you guys can shut the FUCK up because that's all you seem to think. How bout some openmindedness for once? I think that ultimately it should be the victim's decision, and while it IS unnecessary for THIS case out of all the other to have media coverage, if there wasn't at least one of these cases on the media the majority of people would never know about situations like this. I mean just think, what if this was YOUR relative, perhaps your father or your sister. Then this would change the spin on it, wouldn't it? And then if you read a thread like this, you wouldn't be too impressed.

As for the pope, I agree with most of you (but on a less..shall we say harsh scale?). Pope John Paul II was a good guy and now is his time to meet God, and it IS a big thing because he IS the leader of a giant world organization (to be as PC as possible) so it rightly deserves coverage. Sure, if you're not Catholic you probably don't care (I for one didn't take that much interest) but for those other millions of people it has some importance.

As a whole I think, Famine, you could have should have toned down the..dunno, aggressiveness? of the post because you probably knew that it would stir some strong reactions. I don't know if this was on purpose or not. Hopefully not.

-AirApache

Slightly off topic, but I thought this was a cool thing to add here after Suave's post. My friend's grandma a couple months ago was dying, and they had her on life support for a few weeks until their family decided that it was better for her to die than to live off a machine (why couldn't the Shiavo family have this kind of sense too?) so they took her off. What was really cool was that my friend's father was in the room with her and a couple hours later she actually opened one eye. He called her name a couple times and she turned to look at him. In a couple of hours she was actually sitting up on the bed, responding (not talking yet) to people who had come in, watching television, and so on. Right now she's currently doing fine. Dunno, you guys might think its stupid, but I thought it was a miracle...

[nerfspecialforces]

That's amazing.

P.S. I know it was a short post.

[cxwq]

AirApache, on Apr 1 2005, 09:45 PM, said:

Wow I didn't think that this forum was so.... dunno, I don't have a good adjective. It's really hard for me to believe that you guys would be almost enjoying these deaths (okay, near death for one).

Blah blah blah...

You can get 5-to-2 odds on Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi to win the Holy See championship. I'd jump on those odds cause he's like Italian and shit. Did you know that before JPII, Italians had like a 500 year dynasty going on the papacy? Dayam! Catholics need to consider putting in free-agency or something.

[Davis]

JSkater, on Apr 1 2005, 03:41 PM, said:

Davis, on Apr 1 2005, 03:31 PM, said:

I hope you burn in hell you little bitch.
Have a nice day.

DaViS

Please leave.




...now?

Okay. I'm Christian. I see a topic of a guy somewhat laughing because the leader of my religous structure is dieing. I take offense to it. That's like me coming on here and saying the Jewish masiah (sp?) will never come. It's not a big deal personally (I'm not really religous) but an insult to my beliefs.

On to Shiavo:
Personally, I feel her husband doesn't have authority to make the decision, but it was better that she died. I mean, she obviously wasn't coming out. But for her husband, who has 2 more children with another woman already, to try to kill her is odd. Anyway, it is better off that she died.

Edited by Davis, 02 April 2005 - 08:48 AM.

[THIRST]

I dont think your Pope would like that you started cussing at people over the internet in defence.

Im not Christian/Catholic, so this all really means nothing to me.

THIRST

[Gamefreak]

Well I'm a christian and I don't care if he dies. Not one bit, doesn't change my life one bit. And on Schivo they needed to off her about 13 years ago.

[JSkater]

Gamefreak, on Apr 2 2005, 09:11 AM, said:

Well I'm a christian and I don't care if he dies. Not one bit, doesn't change my life one bit. And on Schivo they needed to off her about 13 years ago.

Lutheran here, and I could really care less about the Pope. All I know is that he was good at.. uh.. pope-ing.

Davis: Once again I will apologize for being rude. Sorry.

[LordoftheRing434]

Does anyone know how there is a next pope? Is there an election, or does JPII have some sort of dynasty? And if the pope supposedly hasn't sinned, how will they find another non-sinner? I've wanted a good explainaton, and I haven't ever had one....

[Davis]

LordoftheRing434, on Apr 2 2005, 09:39 AM, said:

Does anyone know how there is a next pope? Is there an election, or does JPII have some sort of dynasty? And if the pope supposedly hasn't sinned, how will they find another non-sinner? I've wanted a good explainaton, and I haven't ever had one....

Well, I am not really religous at all, but I go to CCD on the demand of my parents. According to that, the cardinals vote among their peers to who becomes the next Pope. Again, it's not that the Pope dieing is a big deal to me, but it just pisses me off when someone insults someone else's beliefs.

DaViS

[buddynerfer]

Where do they find a "Non-Sinner"?
Or is the pope allowed to have sinned before being the pope?

Edited by buddynerfer, 02 April 2005 - 12:49 PM.

[Davis]

buddynerfer, on Apr 2 2005, 09:48 AM, said:

Where do they find a "Non-Sinner"?
Or is the pope allowed to have sinned before being the pope?

Well, I think it's like when someone becomes a priest. They really don't give what you did before (as long as you aren't a murderer.) Like, they aren't gonna ask all your friends if you ever swore. It's just assumed, since you commited your life to an ideal that possibly isn't true, that you are willing to do whats right.

DaViS

[The Infinite Shindig]

I'm a Catholic and my prayers go out to the Pope. He is truly a great man and has been an influential world leader for a quarter of a century. I do think that most of you could agree that he is quite important to many people around the world. I don't really get why Famine would post this topic. To me, it's a matter of foul taste.

At the time of my post, his condition seems to be improving. That is quite impressive when the media was reporting he should have been dead close to 24 hours ago.

"LordoftheRing434" said

Does anyone know how there is a next pope? Is there an election, or does JPII have some sort of dynasty? And if the pope supposedly hasn't sinned, how will they find another non-sinner? I've wanted a good explainaton, and I haven't ever had one....

I will answer your question as best as I can. Considering I haven't been alive for more than this Pope, it will be hard to give you exact information. After the Pope is declared dead, the Cardinals of the world are given 2 weeks to get to Vatican City. This is the standard used because it is the amount of time needed to get to Rome by steam ship. The Catholic church has never been on the cutting edge, but that's the standard. You can pretty much bet every Cardinal will be in Rome within 48 hours of the announcement.

There is a Cardinal who's only job is to run the church and the conclave (the meeting of the Cardinals intended to pick the next Pope). This partiicularly Cardinal is out of the running for the next Pope. The conclave does not meet until at least 2 weeks after the Pope's death, for the reason listed above. It is safe to bet that this is when informal meetings will be held to narrow a list of candidates.

The conclave lasts for 10 days. During which, the Pope is selected through a consensus and prayer.

Filling the shoes of John Paul II will be an immense task. Expect candidates to be of the highest caliber. After all, not everyone has 3 PhD's, speaks more than 5 languages, is a published author and poet, has traveled more than 99.99% of the planet, is the reigning world champion in 70+ category in Scrabble, and holds the title of honorary Harlem Globetrotter.

Yeah, I wasn't kidding about those facts about the pope.

[LordoftheRing434]

Aight, thanks for the info. This will be interesting to see what unfolds in the following weeks.

[Jester]

I just read on MSN that the Pope has infact died. Info here. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/?GT1=6428

[The Infinite Shindig]

The Pope has just died. Rest in Peace John Paul II; you were truly a great man.

Here is an article that sums up his many accomplishments for those of you who were not aware of them. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3276587/

Replies in this topic that are not in good taste will result in this topic being closed. Feel free to tastefully make comments, but don't be a jerk about this. It's safe to say that some of you have been already, but I'm looking over those posts.

[Shotty Master]

May he rest in peice. Such a sad thing to see such a great man go. however, I feel he is in a better place.

Edited by Shotty_Master, 02 April 2005 - 03:47 PM.

[Pineapple]

For most of you here, you've known no Pope other than John Paul II.

His run was long, by papal standards; third longest I think.

His run saw the fall of communism, the advances in communication (no cellular phones back when he was elected), computers (no Internet either), and transportation (non-stop flights almost anywhere in the world nowadays), technological leaps and bounds in his 26 years of service.

Despite the advances, and the changing worldview becoming more materialistic and self-seeking, this pope has always spoken of God's message of what really is important in life; strong faith, kindness to one another, moral fortitude, and the value of people. He not only spoke it, he lived it.

And again, he is THE most travelled pope ever, like Shindig said, seen 99% of the world's countries, and every continent except for Antarctica. I'm sure he would have found a way to get there if he could. He was truly a "people's pope". He made sure that he could bring the highest level of leadership in the Catholic church to the grass roots. The common people. He was with them, not above them. A servant of the people as well as the leader of the people.

Despite being one "with the people", he never swayed from the heavily contested values and morals the church has embraced since it's formation; namely, homosexuality, abortion, and birth control.

At the same time broke some of the lesser essentials of tradition, like going to a synagogue to bring a bridge between Judaism and Christ-followers (Catholic or Christian). Bridging national, social, economical, and even theological gaps.


Truly a most influential man of the turn of the millenium, whether you agree or disagree with him.


Well done, good and faithful servant. Rock on, John Paul II.


-Piney-

[CTA then and now]

Everyone who has said this is right. He was a wonderful, great guy who stayed with us so long. I think the average serving time of a pope is 6.3 years. Around that time most die from exhaustion from their amazingly hard, 24-7 job.

[Arcanis]

Mugabe should be apprehended.
As for Terry Shavio, to hopefully wrap it up- like Wask said, there are lots of people in her state across America. It's just advantageous to certain political parties to dig up the topic. There's no arguement as to wether she should of died or not. She was dead as soon as the heart attack came along.

The pope was a great guy. R.I.P. Although, is he dead or not?