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The Possibility Of Lemons

Is there one?

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#1 ompa

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 01:05 PM

Alright, the subject of Maverick modification is what mainly brought this to my attention. Is there really a possibility for there to be "lemons" within the foam firing projectile weapons industry? Because there seem to be people, where no matter how hard they try to mod their gun, fail miserably, and it can't every time be attributed to modding skills.

For example: I have my maverick, which is modded pretty much to the best of my abilities except I have not yet done a barrel replacement. Stefans prove to be too heavy, so I use stock darts. I even went into the turret and made sure all the barrels were airtight, which they now are. Yet, I only get around 30'-35', and I can't figure out why. I've made the design more air efficient than mods I've seen around here, and the barrels seem just fine, yet I can't seem to get the damned gun to fire over 35' flat. It's really bugging me seeing as everyone else is getting 40'+ on their Mavericks.

The same type of thing has happened with one of my BBB's and my EAB- they both suck-ass no matter how much I mod them. My BBB at one point had internal bands, and nested barrel, and on a good day shot 60'. My EAB I got so frustrated with I stuck a X-bow spring in it, re-inforced the plunger, and had a 3-step nested barrel and only got 60'. Yet my x-bows get top-notch range, and my other guns do as well.

In short, my question is, is there the possibility of getting a "lemon" nerf gun?

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 21 January 2005 - 01:09 PM.

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#2 cxwq

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 02:21 PM

Well, the short answer is "yes" but I think there are a lot of other factors as well.

I would conservatively estimate that at least half of the ranges posted on the forums are complete bullshit. Even with good intentions, many people hold their guns at a slight angle for 'level' range testing or only report the distance for the fluke dart that caught a breeze and went 10' farther than the rest. Then there are many who don't even bother with a tape measure and just guess.

It's not that their ranges are unbelievable or anything, what you tend to see is one person report a given range, then everyone else says their gun does about the same. The problem is that the vast majority of people do not have the skill to mod their guns to the maximum. The sm5k is routinely reported as achieving 150' flat distance. I have tried many lengths of brass taped completely airtight to the tank of two different sm5ks and even with my best heavy-weight darts, my maximum level range is consistently around 135'. While I believe it's possible that someone has gotten 150' out of theirs, I very much doubt that it's a common occurrence.

Regarding your EaB, I have 4 of them and pretty much wrote the book on the mod. I think there was only one person in the NIC using EaBs before I posted my writeup. My best EaB will get 70-80' flat. Someone on NHQ reported they got 100' flat with theirs about a year ago and now everyone accepts that EaBs get 100' flat.

Take it all with a grain of salt until someone you completely trust gives you an averaged, measured, level range that has at least 3 significant digits in it.

But yeah, there are still lemons.
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#3 ompa

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 02:24 PM

Well, that explains why alot of the time my average ranges are lower in most cases... Except my X-bow and AT2k. I test all my guns indoors for starters, especially pistols, so no WIND really takes part.

Thanks for the advice though, it helps- but I'll pick up another Maverick to see if I have any better luck with a new one...

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 21 January 2005 - 04:27 PM.

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#4 Crankymonky

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 03:04 PM

You mean no wind effects the dart? Not no air resistence...what kind of house do you live in?

One time, when I bought another Nite Finder, stock, the darts just wouldn't leave the barrel... I couldn't find anything wrong with it internally, and after it was modded it worked fine. I was using brand new darts that came with it.
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#5 ompa

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 04:27 PM

The thing is, mine IS modded.

~ompa
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#6 Drano

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 05:57 PM

i dont know if you would actually call it a lemon situation but, 2 of the 3 Titans i own are broken in the same way. (trigger pin pulled away from the breech valve) Might be more of a design flaw.
and as for ranges, I also always get lower distances than those outrageous ones.
The only ranges that i have acheived that were comparable to the ones reported here were the NF, AT2K, and the Titan
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#7 NerfMonkey

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Posted 21 January 2005 - 09:54 PM

I own around 25 (give or take 3 or 4) guns and I have yet to buy a gun and find that it does not work well out of the box. That could just be luck though.
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#8 Fuse

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 09:32 AM

I'd say my titan was a lemon. The valve never closed right, so I only got to shoot it once before I had to open it up and fix it.
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#9 Diego

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 12:57 PM

I'd say my titan was a lemon. The valve never closed right, so I only got to shoot it once before I had to open it up and fix it.

Man, I have that same problem with my Titan. Im having some trouble fixing it.


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#10 Crankymonky

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 01:34 PM

NerfMonkey, Thirst and I together own probably 80 guns, and have only had 1 gun not work out of box. It probably was just the packaged darts, Nerf guns are simple enough that I don't believe a "lemon" occurs that frequently, minus guns with some design flaws, like the Titan's valve, etc.

Edited by crankymonky, 22 January 2005 - 01:34 PM.

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#11 Fuse

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 03:57 PM

I'd say my titan was a lemon. The valve never closed right, so I only got to shoot it once before I had to open it up and fix it.

Man, I have that same problem with my Titan. Im having some trouble fixing it.


--Diego

I glued those little round peices in place on the little metal rod that come out, and used thick wire (in this case a burned out sparkler) to wire the trigger on to the peices. Haven't had it fail me yet. Sorry if that description is rough, but the baisic idea is to let the trigger spring help push the valve shut. Works for me.
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#12 Ash

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 06:23 PM

There are lemons or Defective out of box products in absolutely any retail industry. There are absolutely "lemons" in nerf. I have been buying nerf guns for 10 years now (maybe longer, who really knows) and I know that I have personally gotten a handful of defective nerf guns right out of the box. I also know that the rest of the horsemen have also gotten a handful of "lemons" as well. The simplicity of the design really has very little to do with it.
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#13 Viper

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Posted 22 January 2005 - 10:31 PM

Ya, that's why I use max ranges angled just cuz its so hard to be perfectly parrallel to the ground. my ranges are usually inflated since my driveway slants up to the firing point, but my maverick ranges are accurate, though like I stated, are not perfectly flat. You're crossbow could use some surgical tubing it sounds like. CXWQ is completely correct in that 90% of all ranges are BULLSHIT. Eabs with correct banding may get 100' flat since unbanded get 75-80' flat

Edited by Viper, 22 January 2005 - 10:33 PM.

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#14 NerfMonkey

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 07:04 PM

NerfMonkey, Thirst and I together own probably 80 guns, and have only had 1 gun not work out of box.

Wow, you're my idol. :)
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#15 cxwq

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 07:45 PM

Eabs with correct banding may get 100' flat since unbanded get 75-80' flat

If you're talking about my ranges, I use a heavy duty spring replacement in mine so banding would not add significantly to the range. Unbanded and with no spring replacement, you should expect around 50' flat.
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#16 Viper

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 08:07 PM

That makes sense, since an unmodded eab would get about 20 feet flat (36 max). Where do you get your spring replacements cxwq? I think it was the nerf shadow company that posted the first EAB mod. 60' flat on a modded BBB is very good. I use 24" of PETG tubing to achieve a 154.6 average flat max on 7 pumps. I just use a "bullet" like dart, with like 70% of it being glue.

Edited by Viper, 26 January 2005 - 11:16 PM.

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#17 Tinkerer

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Posted 18 February 2005 - 08:28 PM

I've gotten a lemon or two, mostly, it's guns with those open, "Try Me" boxes. However I avoid this by reaching to the back of the shelf for my guns.

Regardless, if it's made on an assembly line, it's going to have some lemons.

(hey, does hasbro test fire their nerf guns before they're sent on their way?)
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#18 Half Newb Half Nerfer

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Posted 18 February 2005 - 09:32 PM

(hey, does hasbro test fire their nerf guns before they're sent on their way?)

I doubt it.
~Halfling
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#19 chores55

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 09:28 PM

;) I'll tell you a lemon! the strong arm is the worst of nerf that i have seen!
with the exception of the secret strike i have never seen a worse ranged gun. it gets 20' MODDED and if I were any of you, I'd stick with the nite finder. :P
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#20 Renegade

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 10:12 PM

The Strong Arm isn't that bad. I brass barrel rmodded mine and it shoots darts straight across my basment which is 20 feetwide so it should get ranges over 20 feet. All I did was insert 9/16 sections into the old barrels so single barreling it might improve range even more
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#21 last man standin

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 10:31 PM

Plus, that would just be a bad gun, not a lemon. A lemon is when a certain gun fires poorly or malfunctions, and others of its kind dont. The strongarm isn't a lemon.(and Razorfin's worse)
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#22 parmaster320

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 11:55 PM

I don't know what to call this but I think I got the opposite of a lemon (if that so exists) with one of my At2k's. I have owned 6 of these guns and used one other before (making a total of 7 that I have interacted with since they came out). All of these guns performed like crap stock even though I'd be real careful and put the (stock) darts in slowly so they didn't bend and so they got all the way to the back of the barrel. Well as most of you know a stock At2k will average like 10-15 feet, if that. Well the first one I ever owned got me an average of 35-40 feet, right out of the box. Of course I modded it anyways.

Edited by parmaster320, 28 February 2005 - 11:56 PM.

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#23 wtrent10

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 12:36 AM

what was the ranges after you modded it?

and yeah I've gotton some lemons, like this one EAB I bought from somebody... damn did it suck.... the bullet's didn't even leave the barrel! I opened that gun up so many friggin times it's ridiculous...

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#24 parmaster320

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 12:40 AM

I did a crayola single barrel on it with 8 inch pvc and got 70 feet with stock micros on 3 pumps, 100 feet on 4 pumps, 130 feet with sonic micros with 4 pumps angled.
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#25 chores55

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 06:34 PM

I get 75' on my recently modded maveric! its no lemon at all! whered you get that idea! Besides these have good rof. ;)
5 year olds use squirt guns, but nooooo, we NERF!

"We got both kinds; country and western."~ The Blues Brothers


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