119 replies to this topic

[Jangadance]

*snippity snip* oh, yeah, know why they picked the name "neo"???? Cuz it sounds cool, and if you mix up the letters you get; "one".

... Not to mention the fact that Neo is a prefix that means new or abnormal- Neo's ability to alter the matrix is his glitch, his abnormality.

[superadaquabat]

This is rather off topic, but could somone explain to me how people hjurt in the matrix are hurt out of the matrix? I've only seen it twice, and i haven't yet come to understand this. I hope this isn't anything really dumb to ask, but its been bugging me for a while now.

[GandalfInArmor]

could somone explain to me how people hjurt in the matrix are hurt out of the matrix?

well neo asks the same question and Morpheus says that "your body makes it real." So as you are hurt your body in the matrix your mind thinks it is real, and therefore may start bleeding, or cause pain. neo also asks that if you die in the matrix do you die in real life? which morpheus responds saying "the body cannot live without the mind."

Hope that answers your question.

[VACC]

could somone explain to me how people hjurt in the matrix are hurt out of the matrix?

well neo asks the same question and Morpheus says that "your body makes it real." So as you are hurt your body in the matrix your mind thinks it is real, and therefore may start bleeding, or cause pain. neo also asks that if you die in the matrix do you die in real life? which morpheus responds saying "the body cannot live without the mind."

Hope that answers your question.

Let's be real here, that answers noones question. The matrix is an entertaining series, but to take it as more is foolish. The brothers Wakowski are not literary geniouses, and the majority of the ideas in the matrix make little to no sense. I mean seriously, who can't be told what the matrix is? It isn't that fucking tough. I think we simply don't care for the most part. It's entertaining, it's fun.

VACC

[Jangadance]

Let's be real here, that answers noones question.

Ah, well, actually I think that does answer his question. superadaquabat didn't ask about the scientific truth behind that movie tidbit, he asked what the movie's reasoning was. And like you said, it is after all just a movie. Take it for what it is. And if you want to read into it further than that, you could imagine that the advanced system that is used for 'jacking in' to the matrix provides such extremely realistic stimuli directly to the brain that when you get shot with a bullet, the nervous system goes into a state of shock and simply shuts down. Or something.

[VACC]

He did not ask "How does the movie rationalize this..." and if you read my post my sentiments are pretty much identical to "it's just a movie", it's fun. However, if you, for some reason want to justify it with the idea that these advanced systemts shut down that part of the nervous system I could maybe accept that, but with regards to injuries within the system I'd have to ask why and how? Why would they use a system that deliberately hurts its users, and how would this mind over matter system actually cause people to bleed, as neo does in the first movie? Are we to believe that his mind some how created an incision, perhaps with a psychic blade? More likely, does hitting the ground automatically trigger his jaw to clamp down on his tongue, creating blood in the jump scene? If so how would you explain the spit up blood resulting from various other fights in that film? Does his mind cause his body to vibrate when smith punches him against the wall? Your mind, thinking you were being hit, woud not mimic the hits, would it? Wouldn't his body, instead, move against the punches mimicking the movements neo is actually initiating? I understand how to rationalize the idea of death, the mind being the mystery it is, but the bleeding and girating I can't seem to get hold of. I don't want you to answer these questions because I don't believe the answer exists, even for the brothers. Just deal with the fact that the movie can be entertaining and not make a lick of sense. That statement is, in fact, the very deffinition of this sequal I would argue. Oh, and I hate you.

VACC



Disclaimer: Vacc may not actually hate or desire the death of any person, persons, or racial/social/religious sects he may or may not threaten or dissmiss. Vacc, however, is a practicing asshole and most likely does in fact wish various maladies and/or ironies upon you.

[Groove]

I'm going to say that the first one was slightly better than this one. Don't get me wrong, Reloaded is still good, it's just that...the ending...is kinda, yeah, you know. I didn't like the end. The first one seemed to be much more plot oriented, the characters were intertwined with the plot, this one didn't seem to do that at all. I don't like it how they set you up for the sequel, either.

The use of CGI didn't piss me off that much, I like the way they played that card. Hardly any guns, too...not even a single construct scene. Where did all those nifty gun racks go? I missed those. Some of those scenes were just "myeagh..." but I suppose I was expecting that, given the size of this sequel. My rating is a B-. I'd consider myself a hardcore Matrix fan...It's entertaining, exhilarating, but lacking something big. That's my wrap.

[Sacapuntas Cabesa]

The first movie had a lot of new things that no one had ever seen before. The bullet time, the rotating camera, etc. Reloaded didn't have anything I hadn't seen before, in the Matrix or other movies.

[rawray7]

i am going to see the second one later tonight. i watched the original last night, and maybe i am trying too hard to read into the movie, but here: i think that on some level the creators of this movie are scared of people. in the movie, neo is absolutely safe if he isn't around people; because the agents can turn into any person at any time. like in the market scence, everyone there can potentially turn into an agent. pretty much anytime (while in the matrix) neo is around people, he is being shot at. again, maybe i am making too much out of this.


edit: just saw the second one. my hypothesis remains the same. boy was it a cool movie. i don't know what all of the complaints about the 'no story in reloaded' are, i mean, there isn't nearly as much explained story, but there still is a whole new addition to the world of the matrix. i mean, after seeing the first one, i thought that maybe there were (at most) 100 people outside of the matrix. but no, there are billions. the fight scenes are a bit formulaic, but overall i thought the movie just came short of the original.

[WebbZter]

I thought the movie was not as good as the original as well. I felt they pushed the fight scenes too far and stretched them out too long. They began to bore me. The movie did offer an interesting look at the lives of people who have been freed from the Matrix.

<SPOILER ALERT>



I didn't really understand the end though. What would have happened if he had gone through the other door?</SPOILER ALERT>

[GandalfInArmor]

What would have happened if he had gone through the other door?

****MORE SPOILERS, don't read if you don't wish to know****


Correct me if i'm wrong but the arcitect told him that if he went in the right door he would be allowed to choose 34 (?) people from the matrix and take them to rebuild Zion after the machines had destroyed it. This would then continue the cycle of anamolies and possibly give the humans a chance to destroy the matrix at a later date. This was ovbiously the choice they wanted him to take. The other door then being one that lead to the destriction of Zion and all of mandkind.

[superadaquabat]

About my question, VACC is completely right. I did remember something like that it was so real your body is actually hurt. But taking things too literally here, why would they want the matrix to actually hurt you? If they were using our bodies as slaves why wouldn't they want them in optimal condition?

Another question of mine, is everyone in the same Matrix? They must be if the sage lady and all the telekinetic kids were together. Why would they only have one? Not only is it a lot less work to make/maintain only one program, but a single one give everyone the same programmed life so everything is controlled. If people are together in the matrix then they can organize. They can't do much other than kill themselves without magical pills (how do "virtual" pills have any "real" effect?), but even so what if someone found out about the matrix and blew up the world? The robots wouldn’t be too happy. The people like Neo wouldn't possibly hack into every single one of them. And if there were any problems with a universal matrix it would happen on a much larger scale than smaller one.

And finally, the robots seem pretty smart, being able to maintain something as huge as the matrix, so why don't they get energy elsewhere? We are not bound to this planet. If all they need is heat then my all means there are many other sources than the sun and humans. Humans has to be one of the worst ideas, the movie proves this. Anything with a mind of its own doesn't like to be controlled. Using the core of the earth would be a relatively simple task, there’s plenty of heat, it’s relatively close, and its not going resist as any life form would under slavery. I realize humans have used slavery throughout history and continue to today, however it has often backfired. Not only that, but humans don't really give off all that much heat. Water with temperatures in the 100's of degree's of Celsius pour from vents constantly at the bottom of the ocean, is this not a more efficient, more reliable, simply better source of heat?

I'm sorry for taking things so literal, but I'm like this. I'm not questioning the move, but rather the concept. I do not believe anything like the matrix exists. If it were so real that pain and death were real in it, what would I care? Honestly, if you were so upset about living in a virtual world, think of how minuscule we are in terms of our solar system alone, and then consider the universe!

[VACC]

And finally, the robots seem pretty smart, being able to maintain something as huge as the matrix, so why don't they get energy elsewhere?

To me that was THE major flaw of the first movie, but once you get over that idea -- whether by rationalizing that getting into space requires an awful lot of energy that they might not have, OR that the AI of the Matrix hasn't evolved that far yet, ORr just by accepting it -- the whole story flows much better.

Just came home from Matrix Reloaded. It was great.

***spoilers***

The one fight scene that went too long for me was the chateau scene. I really enjoyed the freeway scene and the Neo/Agent Smith showdown, and I loved how the conversations between the characters further advanced our (lack of) understanding of the Matrix.

***end spoilers***

I'm confused as all hell now and I'm gonna go sleep on it. Looking forward to Matrix Revolutions in November.

I'm sorry Julie...you're wrong. The chateau scene was fan-bloody-tastic, and the agent smith scene was like an acid enima. Concerning sleeping on the meanings of it all, I would say don't bother. You're mind may boil, and your head explode like a grape....I've seen it hapen a hundred times. I think the wakowski brothers wanted nothing more than to confuse us, because they really put nothing of clarifying or explanitory value anywhere near that script, cast, or film. Having said that, I really didn't mind, I enjoyed the hell outta that movie, and I'll probably do it again. I love the way they've written Neo's character to fit Keaneu's mental cpabilities. I can't see any other way the film would have worked and I think it's a testament to clever film making.

VACC

[Vonoska]

"I'm sorry Julie...you're wrong."
"This answers noones question."

VACC...why so judgemental?. poeple are entitled to thier own opinions. couldn't you try being alittle respectful? come on, as one of the leaders of this site the least you can do is not go around telling poeple where they are wrong. i hate when poeple abuse power. we are all poeple and we can act civilized with out bashing other peoples thoughts. all i ask is alittle more caution and respect from one of the leaders of this oraganization.
-Vonoska

[VACC]

"I'm sorry Julie...you're wrong."
"This answers noones question."

VACC...why so judgemental?. poeple are entitled to thier own opinions. couldn't you try being alittle respectful? come on, as one of the leaders of this site the least you can do is not go around telling poeple where they are wrong. i hate when poeple abuse power. we are all poeple and we can act civilized with out bashing other peoples thoughts. all i ask is alittle more caution and respect from one of the leaders of this oraganization.
-Vonoska

Shut the fuck up hippy. This community was built on me being an ass and you're not gonna turn this into a Faggtroppolis this late in the game.

[Vonoska]

BLahahaha. now THATS what ive been waiting for. thats funny. i love you.
Faggtroppolis. HAH. classic...thank you for britinging my day. i will now resume my carzy self. today. just right.
1ne
2wo
3hree....boom

so...back to the MATRRIX..who saw the trailer for Revolutions? is it revolution or revolutions? BECAUSE THAT CAN MAKE ALL THE DIFFRENCE. like..there are TWO or maybe...SEVEN revolutions...HMM? perhaps...but only...in..november we will seeeeeeeeeeee. bye
-Vonoska
ps. hippies stink pretty

[merlinski]

I personally think that the movie completely kicked ass, the action sequences are some of the best I have ever seen. They really set a new standard.

As for the plot, I am definitely going to see it again in the hopes of getting a better understanding.

**spoiler**

When Neo is talking to the father of the matrix, the guy explains that the concept of "the one" was designed by the oracle in order to give the humans hope. This Neo is the 6th "one", and the 5 before him have all chosen to go rebuild Zion after the machines destroy it. This cycle give the humans hope which allows the matrix to work, for as long as the humans have hope they will accept the matrix. But then, what is the door that doesn't lead to rebuilding zion? I thought it would destroy the matrix and everyone connected to it, but it turns out that Neo can just go back into the matrix and save trinity.

And then, I'm assuming that the thing at the end where Neo destroys the sentinels is a sign that his power extends outside the matrix, but I think thats the backbone of the Matrix: Revolutions.

**end spoiler**

So was my understanding of the basic plot correct from what you can see?

[wtrent10]

did you know that the wachowski brothers put out 2 fake plots to the news press and media before the movie came out????

[Zero Talent]

Cxwq and I were talking about that pivotal scene at the end where Neo puts up his hand, stops all the sentinals dead, and falls into a coma. So, if the human world isn't real, and it's just another layer of the Matrix, how the heck are they ever going to escape?

*Spoilers... You may as well give up reading this topic if you're trying to avoid these.*

Let's pray he just has a some degree of control over the machines, as opposed to control over a second layer of the matrix... Otherwise we have a hopelessly infinite plot that never resolves, perhaps ending with "Not to be concluded" in big, green letters.

The fight scenes were good, the Zion intro was a tad too "Deep Space 9" for me, and the extended rap/dance/porn scene was boring, and rather uneccessary. It did serve to introduce the magnified primal aspect of the human in that situation, but I got enough of that out of the cave/torch atmosphere and Morpheus's speech. But the fight scenes and Matrix end of the plot were interesting enough. Neo's a tad less manic, though, which is a bit disappointing... And like Groove, I miss the guns a little.

But it was certainly worth the $6.43

[jon]

the movie was a good one but there were some realy stupid scenes like when neo masojed trinitys heart to bring her back to life. i thought that the sex scene was stupid, come on (not to be racist) black people getting ther freak on to techno while neo and trinity are doing it! if anything it was more funy than erotic. the fight scenes were great especialy the freeway one. i read one article about the matrix they said that there was suposed to be ghost and wearwolfs in it. i know about the gost but what about the wearwolfs? the story line was good but i needed a better ending. I agree that it wasn't as good as the first one. over all i would give it a B, but still i makes want to see the final one

[cxwq]

There was no ending, hence your dislike of the 'ending'.

Think of Reloaded and Revolutions as one 4.5 hour movie chopped in half for fiscal amusement.

[Grinch]

I personally feel that the "sex scene" was important. I agree that it was too long, but it does express that Neo and Trinity are deeply in love with each other. Just a kiss doesn't justify having that strong of feelings for each other.

On the topic of the Revolutions preview at the end, I was extremely disappointed. The preview was way to short, and after 10 minutes of watching people's names scroll down the screen, I think we deserved a little bit more.

***spoilers***

I have a few questions about the film I didn't quite understand.

1) Ok, the "father of the Matrix" said that if Neo chose one door, Zion would be saved, but Trinity would die. If he went through the other, he could save Trinity, but would lead to the extinction of mankind. Of course, love overcame him and he went to save Trinity. However, he was still breathing, and mankind seemed just fine to me. What happened?

2) The whole thing with the Oracle actually being a program I understood fine. However, it didn't "click" to me why her "visions" were always wrong. In the first Matrix film, she flatly to Neo that he wasn't "The One". She was wrong, wasn't she? What's up with that?

3) Also, another thing with the Father of the Matrix scene. Why were hundreds of Neo's emotions being shown on the TV screens? And, what was all that stuff about the choices being made 6 times? That totally baffled me.

4) I understood the thing with the Oracle when she told Neo that some "bad programs" rebelled. Agent Smith was portrayed as a bad program. He was "unplugged". In this case, why is he still trying to kill Neo? For personal revenge? If he is just a computer program, how can he have emotions? And if so, why can't they just delete him?

***spoilers over***

Well, that's my list of confusing questions. Can anybody answer them to clear this up? When I saw the first Matrix, I required a second viewing to fully understand the concept. I think it's the same with Reloaded. I'm definitely going to have to see it again.

[Jangadance]

the movie was a good one but there were some realy stupid scenes like when neo masojed trinitys heart to bring her back to life. i thought that the sex scene was stupid, come on (not to be racist) black people getting ther freak on to techno while neo and trinity are doing it! if anything it was more funy than erotic. the fight scenes were great especialy the freeway one. i read one article about the matrix they said that there was suposed to be ghost and wearwolfs in it. i know about the gost but what about the wearwolfs? the story line was good but i needed a better ending. I agree that it wasn't as good as the first one. over all i would give it a B, but still i makes want to see the final one

I thought that the dance scene was appropriate, I felt it was celebrating the aspect of humanity, which makes us different than the computers. There was also a dance club scene in the original Matrix, but no one complained about that. And as for the scene in which Neo revives Trinity- she was in the matrix and since he has the power to alter the matrix, he reached inside of her (think about when Neo jumped inside of Mr. Smith in the first movie) but this time he manually pumped the valves to get her heart to start beating again. I suppose kind of like when they shock you with the defibulator.

During one of the many great lectures, someone (the Oracle, I think) reveals the fact that all of the reported sightings of aliens, ghosts, vampires, etc were actually agents of the matrix. I've only seen Reloaded once so far, but I of course picked up on the ghosts- the two guys with white dreadlocks) and I thought I saw some that looked like they could be the vampires- the 2 'outdated' agents employed by the french information dealer. They were watching TV at least, and it was a vampire flick. What do you guys think? Anyhow.

[cxwq]

2) The whole thing with the Oracle actually being a program I understood fine. However, it didn't "click" to me why her "visions" were always wrong. In the first Matrix film, she flatly to Neo that he wasn't "The One". She was wrong, wasn't she? What's up with that?

[snip]

4) I understood the thing with the Oracle when she told Neo that some "bad programs" rebelled. Agent Smith was portrayed as a bad program. He was "unplugged". In this case, why is he still trying to kill Neo? For personal revenge? If he is just a computer program, how can he have emotions? And if so, why can't they just delete him?

Spoilers are a given at this point in the thread so I'll just jump into it.

The Oracle wasn't wrong.

Neo: I'm not the One.
Oracle: Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.
Neo: What?
Oracle: Your next life, maybe. Who knows. That's the way these things go.

He was, in fact, waiting. He didn't believe in his powers until the end of the film and voila! he became the One. The "next life" bit takes on interesting new meaning in Reloaded though don't you think?

Agent Smith went nuts at the end of the first film and The System decided to delete him. He told Neo in Reloaded that the two were connected now - the assumption is that this had something to do with Neo 'jumping inside his code' at the end of film one. Agent Smith tells Neo that he knew what he was supposed to do (when deleted) but he didn't. He's now a renegade program, and possibly more 'human' than most. In the mainframe hallway scene, he tells Neo that he wants the same thing Neo does. Freedom? Control of the 'uber-matrix'? I'm sure we'll find out in November.

As an interesting twist, the Neo-Infused-Smith created a Smith-Infused-Human who is now trying to thwart Neo's plans out there in the 'real-world'.

[Jangadance]

***spoilers***

I have a few questions about the film I didn't quite understand.

1) Ok, the "father of the Matrix" said that if Neo chose one door, Zion would be saved, but Trinity would die. If he went through the other, he could save Trinity, but would lead to the extinction of mankind. Of course, love overcame him and he went to save Trinity. However, he was still breathing, and mankind seemed just fine to me. What happened?

2) The whole thing with the Oracle actually being a program I understood fine. However, it didn't "click" to me why her "visions" were always wrong. In the first Matrix film, she flatly to Neo that he wasn't "The One". She was wrong, wasn't she? What's up with that?

3) Also, another thing with the Father of the Matrix scene. Why were hundreds of Neo's emotions being shown on the TV screens? And, what was all that stuff about the choices being made 6 times? That totally baffled me.

4) I understood the thing with the Oracle when she told Neo that some "bad programs" rebelled. Agent Smith was portrayed as a bad program. He was "unplugged". In this case, why is he still trying to kill Neo? For personal revenge? If he is just a computer program, how can he have emotions? And if so, why can't they just delete him?

***spoilers over***

Well, that's my list of confusing questions. Can anybody answer them to clear this up? When I saw the first Matrix, I required a second viewing to fully understand the concept. I think it's the same with Reloaded. I'm definitely going to have to see it again.

Okay, I will try to answer some of the aspects of your questions with my albeit limited insight. **Warning, Spoilers ahead**

1) I assumed that the 'father of the Matrix' or Architect was offering Neo the opportunity to give himself up for the good of the unplugged humans living in the real world- he could be examined by the computers to find out what variables had made him turn out the be the One, and he could pick a group of people who would stay behind and rebuild Zion. Or, he could go and try to save Trinity, but then the Sentinels would kill all of the remaining humans that aren't plugged into the matrix. Obviously, Neo and Trinity and the gang weren't in Zion, so the Sentinel's assault force didn't kill them. That's why they were "still breathing". Also, I don't think he meant it as an instantaneous affect, it was more of a threat for what the Sentinels will do when they get to Zion.

(*gotta go step out for a bit, I'll finish the rest later.)