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Aluminum parts


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#1 PBZ

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 09:51 PM

Please bare with me I am attempting to get this posted from mobile at work. I wanted to get this posted soon after Apoc.

I had a discussion with several people about making aluminum parts. The current state of affairs is that there are a few people milling parts, and the back log is huge (as I understand, since I have unfortunately become an E and C nerfer).

Having the CAD skills, a 3D printer, and access to a foundry, this post is a "pilot program" of sorts to gauge interest on metal nerf parts.

At the moment, I have a short list of parts including two from the Maximizer (if that's wrong, correct me Dom), 4B triggers for several individuals, and even interest in the spinny bits for the strongarm for the turret upgrades (though that being a rather complicated part).
If you have an interest in metal parts- including longshot bolt sleds- please post up what part you would like to see. Even one-off parts you think you might be the only person who wants one, post it. Also, parts for homemades- full metal rainbow catches? Full metal ESLT parts? Give me your ideas!

Edit from later post:
I you have CAD files please link to them or shoot me a PM about sending me parts so I can do the CAD work.

Edited by PBZ, 13 August 2016 - 07:39 PM.

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#2 PBZ

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 09:53 PM

Post saved.

Parts with interest:
Longshot sleds
LS catches
Retaliator sleds
Retal catches
Flywheel cages (need models, will need parts to CAD and people to test them)

Sentinal levers

Parts def. getting made:
PAS pump slide

Maximizer lever
4B triggers (need someone with access to SolidWorks to make a few changes to the file first)


Edited by PBZ, 27 October 2016 - 01:25 AM.

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#3 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 10:57 PM

Almost any internal piece from either ERTL blaster. Those things are built worse than old buzz bee stuff.
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#4 PBZ

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 11:09 PM

I think that came up as well at some point. I would need a set of part to do the models.
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#5 charlie156

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 11:34 PM

I would personally be interested in full metal (that includes priming bar and sled) of alpha troopers.

I also have a design for a "half sled" for longshot plunger tube replaced alpha troopers
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#6 VNERF

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:21 AM

Longshot boltsled, Roughcut gears (both of them), flywheel cages and triggers?


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#7 Houkaka

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:28 AM

I have acces to lathes, milling machine, CNC Lathes, CNC Milling machine, Surface grinder, Roll grinding machine and some other machine. If you need something machined, just send me the drawings (or cad model with some information about wich part is more important) and I will see if it is feasable. 

 

And I have some parts and projects to try out to. Something that I can't do is a replacement gear for the Appolo because of tool restriction and things like that.

Oh and If you need a 3d model or a drawing, I can do that in less than a week. Most of the time, the cad and the drawing are done in the same day and ready in 24h.


Edited by Houkaka, 08 August 2016 - 09:31 AM.

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#8 CaptainSlug

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:46 AM

I have acces to lathes, milling machine, CNC Lathes, CNC Milling machine, Surface grinder, Roll grinding machine and some other machine. If you need something machined, just send me the drawings (or cad model with some information about wich part is more important) and I will see if it is feasable. 

 

And I have some parts and projects to try out to. Something that I can't do is a replacement gear for the Appolo because of tool restriction and things like that.

Oh and If you need a 3d model or a drawing, I can do that in less than a week. Most of the time, the cad and the drawing are done in the same day and ready in 24h.

As do I. But none of what you or I can offer can compete with the low per-part costs that the OP is offering through foundry casting process. PBZ is looking at MASS-PRODUCTION of cast aluminum parts, but isn't sure what the community itself wants/needs made in quantity.

 

He brought this up at APOC and I haven't had time to really mull over the most likely candidates yet. The HvZ community really has much more money to burn than the NIC typically does so it might be worthwhile to also look into flywheel blaster parts, or the blasters that are more popular for that venue. Bolt sleds, bolts, flywheel cages, flywheels, and so on for superstock blasters are presumably the most likely to be profitable and the only current aftermarket parts are either 3D printed or CNC machined.

 

Replacement parts for more antique/vintage blasters is a great idea, but honestly the market for it is pretty tiny. 4B triggers however are more universally needed since derivations of that blaster are still available and the stocks ones break constantly.


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#9 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 09:55 AM

As do I. But none of what you or I can offer can compete with the low per-part costs that the OP is offering through foundry casting process. PBZ is looking at MASS-PRODUCTION of cast aluminum parts, but isn't sure what the community itself wants/needs made in quantity.

I believe he meant if the guy needed a prototype machined. A cast aluminum longshot boltsled would probably, along with 4B triggers, be the best part to make due to the universal necessity and appeal. If they sold well (and they should) it would be far easier to justify putting in the capital to make other, more obscure parts. 


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#10 Houkaka

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:13 AM

I believe he meant if the guy needed a prototype machined. A cast aluminum longshot boltsled would probably, along with 4B triggers, be the best part to make due to the universal necessity and appeal. If they sold well (and they should) it would be far easier to justify putting in the capital to make other, more obscure parts. 

Exactly, if you need to machine a prototype you can call me.

Also, if needed for prototyping, I may have acces to casting tools and materials overhere for aluminium parts if I can get the permission from the technician.

And finaly, I can design (and maybe cast) parts that could be machined at some places after the casting.
oh and I can design molds also.


Edited by Houkaka, 08 August 2016 - 10:57 AM.

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#11 Meaker VI

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:49 AM

Are cast aluminum parts actually that great though? I always understood casting to produce an inferior part to milling or forging it. I'd be worried they'd still have a tenancy to fail, unless I'm missing something.

 

If I AM missing something, boltsleds, catches, and flywheel cages. Maybe flywheel cages even if I'm not - a solid block that is heavy enough will be an improvement over the plastic even if it's brittle.


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#12 CaptainSlug

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 02:17 PM

An aluminum casting is typically 50% of the strength of billet aluminum and has higher porosity. Any other differences between the two really depend upon the alloys under discussion.

 

If you are replacing a plastic part with a cast one you won't be doing a 1:1 volume replacement, largely because a cast aluminum part has larger minimum radii. You will want to fill in any non-functional voids with epoxy putty (which you would usually do to strengthen the part anyways) so that its ability to handle stresses is increased and the mold is slightly easier to make.

 

Even a 1:1 volume replacement part would be stronger than the original plastic part given that cast aluminum has more tensile strength than injection molded plastic.

 

Best case Tensile Yield strength of ABS is 6500psi (40 MPa) though that's a maximum and you may not reach it under all injection-molding conditions.

 

Cast aluminum is close to 15,000 psi (170 MPa).

 

6061-T6 billet on the other hand is 35,000psi (241 MPa)

 

And cast zinc is only 4000 psi.


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#13 PBZ

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 06:17 PM

Thanks Slug.
As stated, the reason behind this is higher quantities of needed parts. Simple stuff like triggers I can have done immediately, as the CAD files are available and strength is not an issue. If I get to bolt sleds, I will be looking for volunteers who are actively using the blaster to give feedback on how long they last, since I traded my longshot off at Apoc.

I will use the saved post to start listing parts to take a look at, and have a list of available parts in the future.

Edit: please try to stay on topic, this thread is looking for wanted parts, not for tooting your horn about how big your machine shop dick is. If we want to go there, I have two Haz CNC's and up to a 9 axis machine almost a big as my house, if I ask nicely. Are we done? Cool. Back to parts. :)

Edited by PBZ, 08 August 2016 - 06:23 PM.

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#14 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 06:26 PM

Thanks Slug.
As stated, the reason behind this is higher quantities of needed parts. Simple stuff like triggers I can have done immediately, as the CAD files are available and strength is not an issue. If I get to bolt sleds, I will be looking for volunteers who are actively using the blaster to give feedback on how long they last, since I traded my longshot off at Apoc.

I will use the saved post to start listing parts to take a look at, and have a list of available parts in the future.

Edit: please try to stay on topic, this thread is looking for wanted parts, not for tooting your horn about how big your machine shop dick is. If we want to go there, I have two Haz CNC's and up to a 9 axis machine almost a big as my house, if I ask nicely. Are we done? Cool. Back to parts. 

And to start a list of testing volunteers I hope  ;)


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#15 blitz

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 10:36 PM

Maxshot levers would be nice as well. They are somewhat more numerous than maximizers, but also less used/coveted. Probably wouldn't get a huge demand for them though.

 

 

As BluesBro stated, plunger rods, priming bars, and triggers from the ERTL Pump Action Shotgun and Rapid Fire Shotgun would be also pretty cool. I would also immensely enjoy aluminum catches for the Lanard shotgun/Airzone Tripleshot. Again, these face the same demand issues. 

 

As for homemades, a precision-made, airtight ESLT and/or PCSR redirect (both for the rod and the plunger tube) might be looking into. Also, plunger heads (with check valves?) for skirt seals or u-cups would be great.


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#16 father time

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 01:25 PM

I believe that a couple members of CANE would be very interested in Longshot boltsleds, perhaps multiples of them if the price was right. If you could figure out a full size dart accepting sealed Longshot breech (Angel breech that is plug and play and doesn't eat darts) I'd be all over that as well.


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#17 NerfGeek416

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 02:02 PM

I'd cross post this over to r/nerf if you want superstock/HvZ feedback on this. I'm sure they'd be all over flywheel cages and possibly pump kits, boltsleds, and catches.


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#18 DjOnslaught

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 02:44 PM

How about gears for things like roughcut and sling fire? Metal pusher rods to use with after market darts since most need to be modded to use them (if I'm not mistaken)
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#19 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 02:55 PM

How about gears for things like roughcut and sling fire? Metal pusher rods to use with after market darts since most need to be modded to use them (if I'm not mistaken)

Metal gears are already on taobao and worker makes extended pusher rods for any blaster that requires one, plus the pushers don't need to be metal. Plastic is lighter and more suitable.
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#20 PBZ

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 03:08 PM

I am not currently looking to make gears. The reject rate for missing teeth and the post-pour clean up work is going to be high in my opinion. Better off getting a CAD file and ordering a metal print from a website like shapeways (but try not to make it them, prices are outrageous over there), then tossing it in a rock tumbler with some decent sand to take off the edges that will eat the rest of the plastic components.

ESLT redirects are not going to be possible because of internal holes. I'm not doing lost-material, I'm making mold negatives. Solids and indents are ok, through holes will have to be machined in. Triggers and other fiddly bits are totally possible though.

Someone more knowledgable about plunger heads is going to need to weigh in on those, but I'm pretty sure the extra weight over the 3d printed ones is going to affect performance.

For PAS parts to be made, someone is going to have to send me one for a few days to tear down and measure. As I don't own one, I need to understand the whole mechanism and be able to look at all the needed grooves in parts to cut down on post process machining.
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#21 CaptainSlug

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 06:05 PM

The tolerances on 3D metal prints from shapeways are pretty lousy, as is the typical surface finish. I had to do a tolerance study on those for work.

 

I have a PAS with a probably broken plunger rod that I can either provide CAD files from (as I've been meaning to repair it) or I can lend it to you post-repair.


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#22 Draconis

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:01 PM

ESLT redirects are not going to be possible because of internal holes. I'm not doing lost-material, I'm making mold negatives. Solids and indents are ok, through holes will have to be machined in. Triggers and other fiddly bits are totally possible though.

Someone more knowledgable about plunger heads is going to need to weigh in on those, but I'm pretty sure the extra weight over the 3d printed ones is going to affect performance.

For PAS parts to be made, someone is going to have to send me one for a few days to tear down and measure. As I don't own one, I need to understand the whole mechanism and be able to look at all the needed grooves in parts to cut down on post process machining.

 

Why not do lost PLA?  That seems pretty easy compared to doing parted negatives.

 

Aluminum plunger heads and rods will absolutely negatively affect performance, but probably not that much.


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[15:51] <+Noodle> titties
[15:51] <+Rhadamanthys> titties
[15:51] <+jakejagan> titties
[15:51] <+Lucian> boobs
[15:51] <+Gears> titties
[15:51] <@Draconis> Titties.
[15:52] <+Noodle> why is this so hard?

#23 PBZ

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM

Because the foundry I would be getting parts from is making negatives.

Slug I'll take you up on your PAS whenever your ready.
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#24 DjOnslaught

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 06:37 AM

Metal gears are already on taobao and worker makes extended pusher rods for any blaster that requires one, plus the pushers don't need to be metal. Plastic is lighter and more suitable.


He asked about parts so I mentioned ones I thought would be good. I have yet to see a worker rayven pusher rod replacement.
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#25 CaptainSlug

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 08:40 AM

Slug I'll take you up on your PAS whenever your ready.

PM sent

 

If anyone is interested in solid PVC ESLT redirects hit me with a PM. Those really aren't that difficult to make at work using a lathe. You'll have to let me know if you refer an o-ring seal or a u-cup washer seal.


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