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Looking for the ideal Nerf rifle


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#26 Snoop Doggy doge

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 03:57 PM

Maybe there's just such a low amount of power, but my jolts I've never tinkered too much with. I mean, they work when I need them too, which is a conceal carry for dicking around at a friends place to start a small war. 


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#27 Frostburg

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 04:54 PM

Okay. I've been doing some tinkering of my own with my Zeus, and I figured I'd share my experience. 
 

I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

 

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I found the Zeus stock far too short. I felt like it was cramped way too close to

my body. So I measured the blaster's "Length of Pull." The length of pull, from the trigger end of the pistol grip to the end of the

stock is roughly 12 inches.  I normally like a 14-15" length of pull, so this was going to need to be extended. I traced a rough outline of the butt pad which rests against my shoulder, and traced it onto several strips of corrugated cardboard, which I layered on top of each other, until I had about 2 1/2" of extra length. I cut all the shapes out, and wound them all together tightly with some masking tape, and used some electrical tape to attach it to the end of the stock.  It brought my LOP to a comfortable 14-ish inches.  It's a rough design, but this is really just me tinkering with a prototype of a mod.  The main purpose for all this is to see how the completed project will look and feel when everything is done. 

Anyhow, now that the LOP issue addressed, the next issue was the sights.  I decided I would experiment with accurate aperture sights (peep sights) design, similar to that of many real rifles.  Since this was just tinkering, I decided to cut the rear peep sight out of thick laminated paper. I found a bicycle helmet pamphlet in my living room that had a rather stiff cover. This seemed like a decent candidate. The outer ring of the peep sight isn't really the important part, the inner hole is. So I took a rough measurement of a rifle peep sight, and approximated the inner hole to be about the diameter of a tooth pick.  I took a tooth pick and punctured the page and rotated the pick inside as to make a nice round inner hole as free as possible of imperfections and such.  I then darkened it with a black sharpie. I traced a one inch square around the hole and cut it out.

I then needed to determine my eye relief before attaching the sight. It would be nice if I could attach it over the factory rear sight, but since I added my own stock extension, I figured I would have to measure out my own.  So I did the simple thing, and found my natural eye placement when comfortably sighting the rifle. I marked off my approximate eye location with a piece of masking tape, and used that to find a decent location for the rear sight. I eventually found a sweet spot just a few inches forward of my eye placement line.  So then the question, how to affix this square cutout of paper onto the top of this rifle as so I can peer through it to observe the front sight (which I made later).   So I took the extra pieces of corrugated cardboard to build a base on top of the rifle. I added small strips, layer by layer until it was of reasonable height with my eye line. Once so, I simply attached the rear paper sight to the cardboard base, and found myself with a decent rear sight.  

Now for the front sight. I took the same tooth pick I used to punch the rear sight hole, snipped it down to a length of less than half an inch, filed the top smooth so it was squared off, and painted the entire thing black using the same sharpie.  I conveniently secured the front sight to the factory orange front sight. I found that I needed to have the tip of my home made front sight post less than half way up vertically between the notch of the factory front sight, so the factory orange prongs were higher than the post I made, which I centered horizontally between the two orange posts.  

 

Now, when I sighted in my upgraded prototype rifle, I could shoulder it comfortably, and sight it in comfortably, and enjoyed a sight picture similar to that real rifle sights.  

 

Last thing to do, how will it perform?  I set up a basic target of small pill bottles standing within an overturned mesh laundry hamper to catch the stray rounds (the rounds kept bouncing out and across the room). I set up an improvised front rest for the rifle about 15 feet away, and did some slow fire shooting. I made sure I had the "rev" button held in for maximum power on each shot, and fired shot per shot.  I found that some shots hit the target dead-on, others not no close.  I might get a direct hit approximately once every 6 shots, the other shots may land within a 2-3 inches away, and some over 4-6 inches away.  Why the discrepancy? Am I maintaining a consistent sight picture? Yes. Hmm...  After doing this for some time, I didn't think it was my sights. They gave me the consistent crisp picture I was hoping for.  So I figured it might be variances in my ammunition. So I set up three small cups in order to separate my ammunition. One cup for accurate shooters, one for inaccurate ones, and one for undecided ones.  So I then took shots, and as carefully as I could track, placed balls which hit my target into the accurate cup, the ones that clearly missed into the inaccurate one, and the ones that were close into the undecided one.  After doing this for a while, it seemed that balls which were designated as accurate would later go into the inaccurate cup, and vice versa. Individual balls themselves would not always be consistent in trajectory.   Then I came to realize something. The length of time I hold down the rev button, even when held down for the same amount of time for each shot, seemed to generate varying degrees of power for each shot, which might explain the lack of precise consistency shot to shot.  The power of the motor revving, shot to shot is a variable which could affect the consistency.  I'm not sure how to proceed here. I'm not very mechanically inclined.  I'm going to take the time to do some more comprehensive tests later with more shots fired, but I don't have the time today.  Also, the Apollo may provide more consistent results being that it isn't constantly running a motor, so to speak.


Edited by Frostburg, 05 April 2016 - 05:15 PM.

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#28 shandsgator8

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 04:55 PM

If you already have the velcro/whistler darts, a 2 1/2 blowgun made of 1/2 inch PVC should be great. I have a 3 1/2 foot one I sometimes mess around with that has good grouping and range, and no one should be suspicious of anything like a short white plastic pipe.

 

I've seen a PVC blowgun work very well with whistler darts, in terms of accuracy.


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#29 Frostburg

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 04:56 PM

I can also try to post some pics of my project if anyone's curious.


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#30 shandsgator8

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 04:56 PM

I've heard that variances in the tolerances in the flywheel motors and flywheels can cause loss of accuracy and shot consistency (precision).


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#31 Cartaya

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 05:18 PM

Try a brassed sharpfire with 15 coils off an ace #62 spring, If you use all the interlocking pieces of the blaster to your advantage in the build and use nice consistent dome/X-Dart/Pak-D Stefan darts, the results are very nice in terms of accuracy.  With this you got accuracy and some decent usable in battle speed, but you ain't gonna break any range records. You have to remove the locks and the arm that extends off the trigger in the blaster when you mod it also, but it works really well.

As for sight-rigs for Nerf blasters (and I mean a very accurate modded Nerf blaster, otherwise just use a Nerf pinpoint sight or aim naturally), I like reflex Red dots the most. You don't really need magnification and Aperture sights, yes I've used them on Feinwerkbau Pellet guns they are ok, but it's nice to put the sighting in one plane of focus.  They take a little getting used to, like finding the dot when you pick up and sight the blaster, but after awhile, it becomes second nature.  


--Cartaya


Edited by Cartaya, 05 April 2016 - 05:27 PM.

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#32 Kilomona

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 05:23 PM

I can also try to post some pics of my project if anyone's curious.

I certainly am, that method of stock extension sounds very interesting.
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#33 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 06:13 PM

What I was think is a 1.5 in diameter pvc tube cut in half and put a pool noodle cut down the middle over that and drill a couple holes in the Zeus to string it on there or use hot glue and epoxy.
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#34 Cartaya

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 08:34 PM

Coming back to this topic, I went out and thought about Ideas for a good Nerf rifle.

What I use in battle would not be for everyone and I only recommend it for those who personally like the design and can use it. I use a Longshot PT Star Shot carbine pistol (it's on the tip of everybodies tongue who know me I know....) with a Tasco 3-7x20mm scope and I have loaded it as high as 40 Kg's of springload, but find around 26-28Kg with longshot length springs and 1.5" of precompression is optimal.  I can get as high as 280 fps with a 250 fps average with Singapore darts and pretty nice accuracy and range.   

It's my own thing, I like it, It does what I want to do with the darts I use and the pistol version taken apart (pistol body, barrel, bow-wings) (I made 3 of them, Pistol, Carbine and AT2K turretable) fits in my glove box of my car.

But this is what I recommend you play around with, especially with the return of the ZSLS and the Elite (or not so elite) LS at toys R Us. Recently I worked on a Singled Longshot for a friend.  This is where you go simple, lose the boltsled, get a cpvc T, a piece of 1/2 cpvc hook it to a cpvs coupler and the Plunger setup and go to war.  With the availability of metal plungers and trigger catches, you can load that plunger system to the sky and get into the 300 fps range, but at 18 kg's you'll probably be in the 230-240 fps range, and that is great.  Get a 11" barrel, 12" if you're above 26 kg's. You can get pretty accurate shots with these and the trigger is nice and smooth.

But if you want even more power, Get yourself a 4B tank, a bike pump and a pressure gauge inline with the tank, and integrate that into a longshot/longstrike, hell what ever you want to use shell.  If you keep your pressures the same, the accuracy should be the same granted your darts are accurate.

Have fun.

--Cartaya

 


Edited by Cartaya, 05 April 2016 - 08:48 PM.

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#35 Cartaya

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 03:50 PM

Ahh another idea, the Dual Strike is on sale on Amazon Prime, Credit to Bob O' Bob for posting this on my Facebook forum.  I can do mad things with a Dual Strike...working on a writeup to post on here.


 


Edited by Cartaya, 10 April 2016 - 03:58 PM.

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#36 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 03:56 PM

I don't suggest singled longshots. They are really difficult to pull back, and past a certain spring load (such as the high rate Cartaya is suggesting), you will crack the front of the PT due to the upward force you place on it while pulling the bolt back. It happened to mine, and I didn't put half as strong of a spring load as Cartaya did. Also, your fire rate sucks. I have one, and they're a fun idea, but they had their time where if you broke your bolt sled, you couldn't buy a new one like today and had to single it to even keep using it.

Edited by The2ndBluesBro, 10 April 2016 - 03:58 PM.

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#37 Cartaya

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 04:21 PM

I tend to make things sound too easy sometimes, sorry...

I've never seen it happen, but I've heard of it happening and yes RoF is quite low.  My trick, was to shore up the barrel by laminating it into the barrel attachment adapter with Go2 glue and duct tape. Does it keep it from cracking by distributing the springload on the Plunger cup, possibly, time will tell, that's the idea anyways.  Because if that cup is free entirely to hit the PT, yea it's thin orange plastic, he's right, it will break.   The prime is not easy, I believe it's partially because bolt doesn't have a carrier, so priming it straight back is also an issue, but I want to develop one my next one I build. The last time I worked on a Singled longshot a couple months back, my customer didn't want one when I asked, I think it will make the prime way easier. 


Edited by Cartaya, 10 April 2016 - 04:40 PM.

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#38 The2ndBluesBro

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 05:24 PM

 My trick, was to shore up the barrel by laminating it into the barrel attachment adapter with Go2 glue and duct tape. Does it keep it from cracking by distributing the springload on the Plunger cup, possibly, time will tell, that's the idea anyways.  Because if that cup is free entirely to hit the PT, yea it's thin orange plastic, he's right, it will break.  

That's not what I meant, when you're pulling the bolt back you are exerting a tremendous amount of upward force on the front bit of the PT. The springload is only relevant because the force is a problem due to the springload requiring the operator to pull back harder and longer, thereby putting more strain on the part. The plunger hitting it doesn't cause the issue I was talking about. 


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#39 Cartaya

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Posted 10 April 2016 - 06:38 PM

So a bolt carrier around the tee with a slot cutout to prime it....  But like you said, who needs it now that we have affordable boltsled replacements, once it becomes that much trouble.   Yea so it prys it, that's why they crack. I always try to keep the bolt as straight as possible, might be why I never broke one. 

There is more to this...let me get back to you, not that it matters but something else going on perhaps.


Edited by Cartaya, 10 April 2016 - 07:08 PM.

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#40 Venaticalmoss

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Posted 11 May 2016 - 11:47 AM

Personally, I prefer to use a rayven with an elite 18 round mag. Now I know it's not a rifle per say but it has good range, accuracy, and is a good modding platform. Your mileage may very .

 

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#41 Frostburg

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 01:28 PM

Okay, I've been away from this thread due to school/ final exams etc. but I'm done now. I'm gonna try to post photos of my project via my iphone.
 
Here are some pics of what I've got.
 

 


Some of the pics are side ways. :-/
 

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#42 Frostburg

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:16 PM

A photo showing the front sight.

 

While this is clearly a rough prototype, it allows me to determine proper length or pull and sight picture. This feels comfortable for me to shoulder and sight in, so a future version would be a completed model with solid plastic parts, but using these dimenstions.
 

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#43 Maniacal Coyote

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:43 PM

Crikey, mate!
Your cardboard 'n' duct tape prototype looks killer! For a rear sight, I'd recommend you upset a centimetre or a quarter-inch (I know they aren't equal, just close enough ) of McDonald's soft-drink straw. (Larger bore than most soda straws, and you can get a decently large drink for $1 USD.
To elevate it to line up, use popsicle stocks and duct tape. That way, you get some cool treats to enjoy while modding!

Edited by Maniacal Coyote, 23 May 2016 - 03:45 PM.

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#44 Frostburg

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:59 PM

Crikey, mate!
Your cardboard 'n' duct tape prototype looks killer! For a rear sight, I'd recommend you upset a centimetre or a quarter-inch (I know they aren't equal, just close enough ) of McDonald's soft-drink straw. (Larger bore than most soda straws, and you can get a decently large drink for $1 USD.
To elevate it to line up, use popsicle stocks and duct tape. That way, you get some cool treats to enjoy while modding!

 

 

Thanks, lol.  


I have absolutely zero experience doing this. I bought my first nerf rifle a few months ago, and this was the first and thus far, only ad hoc mod I've

done using materials I found in my house and my personal knowledge of rifles. I'm sort of reinventing the wheel as I have yet to learn any real modding 

skills.


Edited by Frostburg, 23 May 2016 - 04:00 PM.

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#45 Cartaya

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 08:06 PM

Dual Strikes are pretty rad, 3" of draw, longshot PT size and if you fill the voids, nice volume at low yields. Able to use up to 22" barrels (18" I'm finding the most accurate to fast ratio)  Fires mega's extremely well, makes good 1-hit kill backups for a shooter like me who usually picks people off with a singled blaster.  Also look into a good red dot, B style, $30 Wal-Mart or less, just stay clear of that NcStar crap.IMG_6029_zpssszkuhlq.jpg

 


Edited by Cartaya, 23 May 2016 - 08:09 PM.

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#46 Frostburg

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 11:52 PM

Lol, does that say Mega BDSM?  Sorry... I didn't mean to get side tracked. 

 

So does that function like a cross bow? Does it fire foam darts, or real darts?


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#47 Cartaya

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 12:05 AM

Lol, does that say Mega BDSM?  Sorry... I didn't mean to get side tracked. 

 

So does that function like a cross bow? Does it fire foam darts, or real darts?

 BDSM stands for "Brassed Dual Strike Magnum".

It is singled Stefan/Smart AR Mega Selectable.  This one is 19 Kg's, Has a 8 Kg omw longshot spring and a 11 Kg thunderbow spring.  with a 12" 17/32nds brass barrel it can pull 260 fps, but 220-240 fps with an 18" brass barrel and much more stable.


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#48 Frostburg

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 12:50 AM

What sort of projectiles does it fire? Is it charged by a charging handle or does it use a cord like a crossbow?

 

I wanted to post an update to my Nerf Blaster search.
 
The past time I posted was several months ago. I tried the Sentinel. I must have gotten a lemon, because despite it's strong power, it was horribly inaccurate. I was impressed with the accuracy of the Nerf Zeuss, but it wasn't consistent enough. Shots would fire in a somewhat disperse pattern around the target, but still not TOO bad. I hypothesized that this lack of shot consistency was due to holding down the rev button which produced shots are varying velocities depending on where it was in its rev cycle. My Jolt Ex-1 still held the record for the most accurate blaster I own.
 
I only today unboxed my Nerf Apollo, and after trying, I was extremely impressed with it's accuracy. It seems noticeably more accurate than the Zuess.  The shots are more consistent, and appear to group closer together at ranges less than 20 feet. This is my initial impression as I still have more shooting to do with it, especially at greater distances.  I attribute this improved consistency due to the fact that each shot seems to fire with equal power. The fact that each shot is manually charged, it allows for greater consistency shot to shot than the battery powered Zeuss.  If this accuracy continues, and I can get even more precise shots with the addition of sights, the Apollo may very well dethrone my Jolt Ex-1 as most accurate blaster I own!   :D

 

 

Maybe there's just such a low amount of power, but my jolts I've never tinkered too much with. I mean, they work when I need them too, which is a conceal carry for dicking around at a friends place to start a small war. 

 
Hmm. I feel like the Jolt Ex-1 has good power. It hurts when my gf shoots me with it. So I bought another one to return fire!
 
But seriously, I'll aim for 2 inch squared, targets at 20 feet or more or less, and almost always get hits provided I take my time and remain consistent. Try this next time. The stock sights, while rudimentary, work well for it's purpose. If I were to mod it, I would add slightly taller rear sights for the ranges I want to shoot (I often have to aim/hold high to get hits, but I do so consistently from shot to shot). I'm a formally trained and proficient rifle marksman, so that plays a part.
 
I am actually thinking about an ambitious project where I turn the basic orange Jolt Ex-1 into a full size rifle with a stock and rifle 
sights and everything, just to see out precise I can aim with it!  There are better modding options with my Zeuss and Apollo, thus far, but I think the Jolt has potential. 


Edited by Ice Nine, 24 May 2016 - 02:06 AM.

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#49 Cartaya

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 02:05 AM

Play with long barreled designs,  this one has been shooting wild at the last few wars, Ever since I went twin Longshot springs (OMW 8 Kg and Xplorer 18 Kg)  but I finally got her dialed in and the darts stable.  I just threw an orange plastic tip on it last week.   The right darts and 3.6 Joules or so can do wonders, but don't use this to dick around with your friends, you'll welt them pretty bad, but NIC wars, ok.  This was a response to a kid claiming a unmodded stryfe with a scope was $n!per, I had to break it to him....


https://youtu.be/rNIP7KO_NeY



 


Edited by Cartaya, 24 May 2016 - 02:07 AM.

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#50 Frostburg

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 02:27 AM

Play with long barreled designs,  this one has been shooting wild at the last few wars, Ever since I went twin Longshot springs (OMW 8 Kg and Xplorer 18 Kg)  but I finally got her dialed in and the darts stable.  I just threw an orange plastic tip on it last week.   The right darts and 3.6 Joules or so can do wonders, but don't use this to dick around with your friends, you'll welt them pretty bad, but NIC wars, ok.  This was a response to a kid claiming a unmodded stryfe with a scope was $n!per, I had to break it to him....


https://youtu.be/rNIP7KO_NeY

 

 

 

I would have no idea how to begin to accomplish this, as the extent of my modding experience

are shown in my photos above.   Could I purchase this model from a modder somewhere?  

 

Could I have actual rifle iron sights instead of a scope?


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