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#1 Ice Nine

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 12:00 AM

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There's a long and storied history of people being unhappy with NerfHaven. That's fine. It's the internet.

 

This thread exists because the moderation staff (me in particular) wanted to clarify some existing misconceptions, and misunderstandings, about NerfHaven's moderation policies as well as ask users for honest feedback about what they like and don't like. Feel free to be totally honest; this is a "safe space," in the sense that no opinions* will cause you to be banned. We did change a guy's name to Mr. Hands after he had a pretty tasteless reference to the Holocaust as his username, so feel free to use that as the baseline badness to create change.

 

*You can still be punished if you break the other rules, e.g. post legibility, in case you wanted a blank check to post garbage.

 

First, here are some things that have come up in discussions in the past.

 

What's the deal with NerfHaven?

NerfHaven is an old website that acts as an interactive library. Forums have an excellent archive system and because pretty much everything is written in plain text it's easily archived by Google, alongside time and date information. It's broken down into subcategories to make finding information easier, alongside pinned threads with, generally, the most important and relevant stuff for that area.

No other service offers this combination of convenience. Facebook is horrible at data archiving; it's impossible to find anything from a month ago because there's no real search system or content maintenance. YouTube is okay but YouTube is super one-way in terms of information, and I'm sure everyone has tried to find a specific piece of information (like I wanted to see a BoomCo Burst Wave being fired) but no video has exactly that piece of information, or that information is buried in a twenty minute video of some other garbage.

Reddit is okay but it's still a terrible to navigate mess and its content-promotion puts uneven weight on opinions. A forum is nice and linear and everyone's post has equal importance: that is, the content that it has.

This is why I've been using NH for almost thirteen years. It can be difficult to maintain high standards for content but it's worth it, I think.

 

What's the deal with warnings?

Okay. Warnings are just between you, the poster, and us, the moderation staff. It's only feedback from us. It's not a personal thing and it's not us punishing you. If you're posting useful information, we will bend over backwards to make it better, including going in and fixing formatting problems (e.g. malformed image links) ourselves. To reiterate, no one but you and us can see what we said to you about your post, and the goal isn't to be snarky or smug, it's to help you make the information you provide better.

Put in a different way, you could post a write-up that did some new or interesting or clever thing with a blaster, and post it in the wrong subsection with malformed image links and bad grammar and whatever else. We would send you a warning just as a friendly reminder that we want posts to be legible and whatever and we would fix what we could, like the pictures. We want that information to be here and for your creative ideas to be seen.

 

What's the deal with necros?

This forum is pretty old and houses a lot of content. You might have noticed that people have been warned in the past for posting in an old thread. What not a lot of people realize is that there are two types of necro.

  1. Content-less necro:
    If you post in an old thread to just say "cool gun dude!" or "here's a photo of my gun it's the same!" or something that doesn't have any information in it, that's probably not a very helpful post. For one, there's already a thread if you want to show off pictures of your cool new blaster, and the guy making it probably already knew it was a cool blaster when he posted it six years ago. It's not a big deal but it adds clutter where there doesn't need to be any.
  2. Content-ful necro:
    If you post in an old thread with a question about a technique, or a suggestion for a different part, or an update to the project itself, then that's contributing and there's nothing wrong with it. You can post in a ten year old thread if you're sharing legitimate information. When I wrote up a couplered bow arm conversion, some dude posted in the thread three months later with super helpful information. He wasn't punished for that. He wouldn't have been punished for that if it was three years instead of three months.

The rule of thumb I give people for necros is: "If I make this post, would a person reading this thread actually care? Would they learn something from my post?" If the answer to either is yes, then that's a quality post and you should feel proud for having done it.

 

I'm sure I'll think of a few other things to add in here, but in the meantime, have fun trashing the website. User suggestions will be taken into consideration (to what extent remains to be seen).


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Unholy Three: DUPLUM SCRTA, DUPLUM PROBLEMA (2009)

But Zeke guns tend to be like proofs by contradiction

Theoretically solid but actually non-constructive

Rnbw Cln


#2 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 08:13 AM

As a kid you see a bit of annoying things on the forum such as being punished for bad grammar or seeing words that a kid should not see. Maybe make a kid rank where if your under a specific age you get it and it would block out inappropriate words like a word filter or even just let the staff know "hey I'm a kid my grammar sucks". But make it only known to staff so other members don't take them seriously.

Edited by xXD3V1LXx, 20 March 2016 - 08:14 AM.

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A quote from Ice Nine
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NERF On
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#3 Spud Spudoni

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 06:41 PM

As a kid you see a bit of annoying things on the forum such as being punished for bad grammar or seeing words that a kid should not see. Maybe make a kid rank where if your under a specific age you get it and it would block out inappropriate words like a word filter or even just let the staff know "hey I'm a kid my grammar sucks". But make it only known to staff so other members don't take them seriously.

The internet has no age. If you aren't 13+ you shouldn't be on the forum anyway. At that age, grammar should be no issue.

 

The one thing I wish the forum had, is a better threshold for new nerfers to browse the forum on their first glance. As hard as it may be for the moderating team to track down every war going on these days, I used to love seeing the monthly list of wars available to attend on the main page. It kept me up to date on wars as well as helped bring the different areas together. When Nerf Revolution was still around, I remember one member who did a weekly news letter, had mods/homemades of the week, and other sort of nerfing news. The main page already has a blog setup, so adding a list of mods/ homemade guides/moderators picks of the modification and paintjob thread or homemade thread created the month before would make it really easy for new users to get an idea what the hobby is about. Doesn't have to be that in depth, but something that makes it easy to get what this forum is about right on the home page.


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#4 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 06:44 PM

We should make a monthly box of nerf loot sort of like munch pak or loot crate and it should come with things like k25s and stefans and all sorts of nerf goodies
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A quote from Ice Nine
"Use the golden rule: Don't be a dick."

NERF On
-Devil

#5 Meaker VI

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 08:11 AM

As a kid you see a bit of annoying things on the forum such as being punished for bad grammar or seeing words that a kid should not see. Maybe make a kid rank where if your under a specific age you get it and it would block out inappropriate words like a word filter or even just let the staff know "hey I'm a kid my grammar sucks". But make it only known to staff so other members don't take them seriously.

 

You can be suspended (until you are 13) for being under 13 on this site. Punishment for poor grammar and/or spelling is not unusual to this forum, and is done because this is a forum: everything you post here will be here forever. Or at least, for as long as the site exists. So we teach proper internet etiquette, I know because I've learned it here; always think before you post. I've clicked cancel way more times than I've clicked reply, there aren't prizes for most posts or anything here.

 

We should make a monthly box of nerf loot sort of like munch pak or loot crate and it should come with things like k25s and stefans and all sorts of nerf goodies

 

Go ahead, or go ahead and sponsor the site doing it. That kind of thing costs money; even gathering junk around my shop takes my time and costs me shipping. Unless you're thinking the site should sell such boxes?

 

Ice; as someone who is a staunch believer in forum-posting for exactly the reasons you've outlined, I've found that Reddit does have a place in all this. Reddit is great at notifying the community of new products, sales, WIPs, and new external content. Better than NH is, because posts drop after a day or two. I find it allows for discussion pretty well too, so concepts can be hashed out; though the problem that after a few days the post is essentially gone remains. It's good at getting a quick feel on a project and inspiration if nothing else.

 

Which maybe reminds me of something: We've long looked down on concept threads; what if we created a sub for them and coupled it with some pinned posts on how to make a real concept? Provide a guide to materials that work for blasters and what they do, a guide to all the basic follies of the Newb concept, and what constitutes a real concept.


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#6 xXD3V1LXx

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:02 AM

I mean sell them
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A quote from Ice Nine
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NERF On
-Devil

#7 Meaker VI

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 11:32 AM

I mean sell them

 

Pretty sure that's a wholly different discussion, and probably not an endeavor the Admins/mods want to undertake. Especially since the stuff sold would need to be interesting and worthwhile enough for people to buy it; and people can buy most of what you asked for online at a cost less than we could possibly charge and all the information about where to buy it for less is on this very site. Mcmaster springs are already a good price, Stephans cost more in materials than Accruites/Koosh/etc let alone time to produce, etc. For it to be monthly, we'd need substantial demand, and I'm not sure that exists on this site.


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#8 Ice Nine

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 06:07 PM

Thanks to everyone who contributed so far.

 

The internet has no age. If you aren't 13+ you shouldn't be on the forum anyway. At that age, grammar should be no issue.

 

The one thing I wish the forum had, is a better threshold for new nerfers to browse the forum on their first glance. As hard as it may be for the moderating team to track down every war going on these days, I used to love seeing the monthly list of wars available to attend on the main page. It kept me up to date on wars as well as helped bring the different areas together. When Nerf Revolution was still around, I remember one member who did a weekly news letter, had mods/homemades of the week, and other sort of nerfing news. The main page already has a blog setup, so adding a list of mods/ homemade guides/moderators picks of the modification and paintjob thread or homemade thread created the month before would make it really easy for new users to get an idea what the hobby is about. Doesn't have to be that in depth, but something that makes it easy to get what this forum is about right on the home page.

 

Thank you for pointing out the obvious re: age and re: grammar.

 

That's a great suggestion. The 2016 Nerf Wars Schedule thread is only as good as the memory of those who maintain it; I sometimes collect wars that didn't get posted and include them, but I don't always have time and I do forget. We're playing around with a post flagging system that would help to collect high-quality content and push it to a blog or the front page or something, which is in line with what you're suggesting here, so hopefully if that ends up working we can address that.

 

We should make a monthly box of nerf loot sort of like munch pak or loot crate and it should come with things like k25s and stefans and all sorts of nerf goodies

 

I work at a company in which a division does this stuff. It's a whole group of people who are paid to do that for a living. Moderators and administrators here do it as volunteers because we feel passionately about it and none of us have time to do something like this. Plus, as Meaker points out, the margins we could make selling repackaged McMaster material are razor thin, and probably nonexistent if you include labor costs.

 

 

You can be suspended (until you are 13) for being under 13 on this site. Punishment for poor grammar and/or spelling is not unusual to this forum, and is done because this is a forum: everything you post here will be here forever. Or at least, for as long as the site exists. So we teach proper internet etiquette, I know because I've learned it here; always think before you post. I've clicked cancel way more times than I've clicked reply, there aren't prizes for most posts or anything here.

 

Ice; as someone who is a staunch believer in forum-posting for exactly the reasons you've outlined, I've found that Reddit does have a place in all this. Reddit is great at notifying the community of new products, sales, WIPs, and new external content. Better than NH is, because posts drop after a day or two. I find it allows for discussion pretty well too, so concepts can be hashed out; though the problem that after a few days the post is essentially gone remains. It's good at getting a quick feel on a project and inspiration if nothing else.

 

Which maybe reminds me of something: We've long looked down on concept threads; what if we created a sub for them and coupled it with some pinned posts on how to make a real concept? Provide a guide to materials that work for blasters and what they do, a guide to all the basic follies of the Newb concept, and what constitutes a real concept.

 

 

Thank you so much for pointing out the reconsideration that goes into your posting. I do the exact same thing and it's a great thing for people to think about.

 

You're absolutely right. I hadn't considered Reddit for things like sales, product awareness, and similar things where it's good for a short period of time and then allowed to fade into the background. When it comes to works-in-progress, I think that people aren't aware of the difference between "concept posting" and "work-in-progress posting." If you're doing a project and want feedback on a specific problem, by all means, post it here. If you just want to show it off, the mods/PJs thread would have to be the place for it, so using Reddit for supportive feedback is kind of nice.

 

To my mind, a subforum for concepts, even with a guide and instructions, would turn into a garbage can, but that's just the pessimistic outlook. It's something to think about and I would definitely like to hear other thoughts on it.


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Unholy Three: DUPLUM SCRTA, DUPLUM PROBLEMA (2009)

But Zeke guns tend to be like proofs by contradiction

Theoretically solid but actually non-constructive

Rnbw Cln


#9 CaliforniaPants

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 06:36 PM

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Which maybe reminds me of something: We've long looked down on concept threads; what if we created a sub for them and coupled it with some pinned posts on how to make a real concept? Provide a guide to materials that work for blasters and what they do, a guide to all the basic follies of the Newb concept, and what constitutes a real concept.

I think this could be very interesting from the point of "helping people solve an engineering problem", but could also be really useful to just encourage people to try new things and learn skills. aeromech posted a failed design in the homemades thread and I thought that was really cool to see, posts of "this didnt work and here's why" are a ton of help for people trying to learn. 


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trans as shit because fuck you


#10 Snoop Doggy doge

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 07:11 PM

I think the site is fine the way it is. I have been raised here,  I hung around, and I think the site is great. 
Maybe beginners guide for some stuff, community input info for what you want to know but a lot of hate is from 2009 era, salty butthurt people, and hopping on the bandwagon. *All* forums are strict, some more, some less than NH. A lot of info lives here, use it if you like, and it's community input.

About the loot thing, I want to see NH gear. Fucking make NH great again! Feel the slugs, 
Make Langley slave away making our damn Tshirts and Bandanas 


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#11 nerfsamurai

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 07:18 PM

I second the request for NH gear. I believe many would agree. I think the site is actually getting better. Many of the kinks have been worked outing most of the unwanted people have left. The strict level here is really quite nice in my opinion. 


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#12 shandsgator8

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Posted 21 March 2016 - 08:38 PM

I think the "issue" with NH is that it comes across as elitist or even has a "cabal" feel to it (from a rookie's point of view).

However, after spending some time on Reddit, I think NH should stay the way it is.

 

Yes, it's a shame that many new developments, mods, news, wars, etc. aren't posted here. But I understand that: one, some of the content I'm looking for may not be what NH is intending to allow and two, by making it easier to post anything, it's asking for really annoying stuff (bad grammar, pointless posts, trolling, etc.)

 

I feel there's a continuum of Nerf related content. On one end, you can allow practically anything to be posted, but you'll get a lot of crap with any noteworthy posts, ie Reddit. On the other end, you can heavily regulate what's able to be posted, but that can result in alienating people and eliminating the amount of noteworthy content. I think NH is doing as good of a job as possible in trying to strike the right balance along this continuum.


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#13 shmmee

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Posted 22 March 2016 - 10:58 AM

Thanks for welcoming the open discussion. Even after all the years I've hung out here, I've always felt a little stifled here on NH. At times it feels like visiting that great aunt who has china plates and glass collectibles covering every bit of wall and horizontal space and any wrong movement is sure to trash the place and get your knuckles bruised.

 

I really hit my golden age of nerf creativity a couple years back on Nrev when a dartsmithing concept thread exploded into nearly 100 pages of collaborative effort to make a metal free dart. While nothing solid ever really came from it, the group interaction was a beautiful thing to be a part of, and I really feel such an interaction couldn't of existed here. It's too sterile, too serious. The focus is solely on the results. The concept, the process, the modder, it's all received as an annoyance necessary to produce a write up. After submitting mods here, I've felt used. It's like we've forgotten that we're a group of teens and adults who play with toy friggan' guns! I appreciate the grammar checks - they're an essential part of communication, but the lack of open discussion, the kibosh on concepts and creativity, the lock down on positive feedback - it's soul sucking. Some may say that "nice mod dude!" doesn't add any content, but it doesn't take up that much space either, and it's extremely rewarding to have your hard work recognized by your peers - especially if it's a modder you respect and look up to. I'd be happy to scroll through a few pages of "nice mod dude" if it put the "community" back into the Nerf Internet Community. Interacting directly and creatively with other enthusiasts is like a happy cancer. It generates more creativity and enthusiasm. 

 

Sadly, my work filtered internet has recently decided to filter all pics from Photobucket and the like, so I'm blind to most of what's posted, but when someone occasionally uploads pics to NH - instead of linking their images, they sometimes get through. Thanks for creating that option. I also appreciate the archiving measures that have been taken. It's been a running tragedy that we would loose mod pics of classic blasters and write ups when a personal account goes inactive. Thank you guys so much for putting a stop to the bleeding!


Edited by shmmee, 22 March 2016 - 11:27 AM.

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#14 Pointman9

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 03:05 AM

The site is wonderful the way it is. I've been a member of Haven for five years, Nerfing for ten, and I love this site. People who cannot read and understand the rules do not belong here. This is a place for good hard information and references. If you want to go play in a creative wank circle, go to the HVZ forums, Reddit, or any other similar website. There's nothing wrong with using multiple forums. This is the Haven, relatively free of fools running amok. Treat it as such.
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#15 Pineapplepies

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 10:36 AM

[url=https://youtu.be/RL6QLOlr_L8]This thread exists because the moderation staff (me in particular) wanted to clarify some existing misconceptions, and misunderstandings, about NerfHaven's moderation policies as well as ask users for honest feedback about what they like and don't like. Feel free to be totally honest; this is a "safe space," in the sense that no opinions* will cause you to be banned.

I have a few things to say but first I would like to put out there that some of you may remember me posting the topic "why is this wiki(learned it was a forum later on) so strict?" My point in pointing out that I was that person was since I got a lot of responses that in essence told me to first lurk until I wasn't a FNG, and that the strictness is what holds this site together. Secondly, while I won't try to offend Killzone here, but I think the admins should prevent threads like "Merf.co" from being so confusing by either taking it down or editing it. The reason why I think this should be done is since that overall the above thread made no sense whatsoever, and if I was new my reaction to that thread would be to leave the forum.(as a result of it making zero sense and all responses not helping at all.) Finally, this is more of a personal thing but I believe we should have a thread dedicated to semi-tricky mods like rewire/voltage boost guides for flywheels(since I am still working with Trustfires and have no clue how to rewire a nerf gun){side note:someone needs to correct and rework the modification directory}
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<p>It's nerf or...... every other blaster brand that is better 

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#16 Alfatrooper

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 01:19 PM

The recent updates to the cite have been incredible. Keep up the good work and thank you Ice Nine for creating this thread! However, there are things that I think could potentially be improved.

 

The main complaint I hear about NH is that when people log on and scroll through the forums they see either closed topics or help threads. I think it would be helpful to be able to move these two types of threads to their own sub forums, (maybe hidden) to allow new viewers to better see write ups.

 

The messenger system however efficient, is still a very slow way to communicate. When sending out many messages when planing a war, the system becomes very difficult to use. Maybe a way of doing group messages and creating a contact list would be helpful instead of individually sending out many individual ones. I know not many people do this when planing a war, however there are some people who attend NENO who only use NH for nerfing.

 

I really like the FB and NH connection. The only problem is when you change your FB profile picture, it also changes on NH. Is there a way to not have the NH one change? This is helpful for people who use one FB account and who also like to keep nerf separate.

 

Another aspect of NH that I think needs to be addressed are member titles and the contributor group. In the past it is difficult to get either a member title or in the contributor group. The build challenges have helped with this a little by giving some guide lines, but mostly the process of getting into the group or getting a member title have not been outlined. New definitions of how to get into that group should be defined. Also, there should be a path (and it seems like this has been the only way in the past) of getting in that group for people who host NIC wars. Having wars arguably shows the highest level of commitment a person can have in the hobby. It seems like most of the admins are people who host wars on the East and West coasts and have been nerfing a long time. We need to emphasize the waring aspect of the hobby in order for it to continue. I think people should be acknowledged on the cite for going to wars and hosting them. because that is the interactive social part of the hobby and is maybe the only reason that people who have attended 25+ wars are still interested. 

 

Edit: It is possible to be loged on with Facebook and use a different profile picture. You have to click on "change photo" then import your own with the correct size. FB automatically re-sizes it for NH, but if you want a different one you have to manually re-size it using a different software.


Edited by Alfatrooper, 24 March 2016 - 12:27 PM.

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#17 Maniacal Coyote

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Posted 23 March 2016 - 11:09 PM

I think this could be very interesting from the point of "helping people solve an engineering problem", but could also be really useful to just encourage people to try new things and learn skills. aeromech posted a failed design in the homemades thread and I thought that was really cool to see, posts of "this didnt work and here's why" are a ton of help for people trying to learn. 


Damn right! Somewhere where rookies can ask if their harebrained idea (re: the DHAEP) has a chance or if it is countered by one of the laws of physics.

Btw, am I the only person on this site who's used a pressure regulator with drip irrigation?
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I know how to help you because I have broken every rule in the book.


#18 jwasko

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 02:02 PM

The main complaint I hear about NH is that when people log on and scroll through the forums they see either closed topics or help threads. I think it would be helpful to be able to move these two types of threads to their own sub forums, (maybe hidden) to allow new viewers to better see write ups.


Hmm. One of the main complaints I hear is that NH is not "noob-firendly," and I would think that Help topics would ease that fear.
 
We could create a separate forum for questions and help, but then I think that could make it more difficult to find the useful information that sometimes gets shared in such threads. For instance, I've recently posted in a lot of battery/motor help threads. Since neither I nor anyone else has taken the time to post a detailed writeup of such information on here (including the whys and not just a bullet point recipe), then those help threads are a primary source for flywheel mods on NH. If we sweep them under the mat, then we may just get even more of the same question asked over and over.
 

The messenger system however efficient, is still a very slow way to communicate. When sending out many messages when planing a war, the system becomes very difficult to use. Maybe a way of doing group messages and creating a contact list would be helpful instead of individually sending out many individual ones. I know not many people do this when planing a war, however there are some people who attend NENO who only use NH for nerfing.


I think that this is what Nerf War subforum is for. Once posted, everyone can see and contribute to what is being planned. I can see the need to PM something like a phone number or email address so that it's not readable by the entire internet, but other than that I'm not sure what else would need to be PMed. And, at that point, you can switch to text/email if need be. Is there something I'm missing that you need group PMing for?

 

For those who would like to follow what's posted in a war thread without having to check NH regularly, the new forum software does provide the option to "follow" a topic or even an entire forum (the button is just above the first post/topic on the page, on the right) and there are options in your profile to recieve emails anytime a new reply is added to the topic or a new topic is started in a forum.

 

 

I'll let someone else repond to Alfa's member title and group concerns. Thanks for the Feedback, Alfa (and everyone else, too). 


Edited by jwasko, 24 March 2016 - 02:07 PM.

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#19 Meaker VI

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 03:57 PM

I'll let someone else repond to Alfa's member title and group concerns. Thanks for the Feedback, Alfa (and everyone else, too).


I'll take a stab at this.
 

Another aspect of NH that I think needs to be addressed are member titles and the contributor group. In the past it is difficult to get either a member title or in the contributor group.


It actually isn't hard to get into the member group. It's entirely automatic. In the (now somewhat distant) past, it was very difficult to get into the member group: but that's because all applicants to the forum were hand screened and approved. Around the time I joined, signing up for membership also meant writing an essay. That went away and then it just took *months* to get approved, if at all. The new system of FNG's and Members with different privileges is to automate the system. Langley doesn't need to hand-approve every single potential member, the system does it and makes them an FNG. That way troll/spam accounts can't mess with the board the way they did in the past, and the users don't need to wait to be made into some form of member.
 
I know it's a point of contention for many, but it really is a much better system than what was used in the past and it is for both the members and administration's benefit.
 

...New definitions of how to get into [the contributor] group should be defined. Also, there should be a path (and it seems like this has been the only way in the past) of getting in that group for people who host NIC wars.


The contributor group is a demi-mod group. Boltsniper, Captain Slug, and Forsaken Angel were all early contributors who should be obvious choices for anyone who knows anything about their contributions (The FAR and other homemades; Slug Darts, the +Bow and much more; and , the Doomsayer and the Longshot "Angel breech", along with numerous other mods; respectively). Other than Naturalman7, every contributor has been on NH for at least a decade.
 
Importantly, you should note that there are currently 13 Contributors on a site with 15,904 members (at the time of this writing). That's 0.08% of members.

 

Having wars arguably shows the highest level of commitment a person can have in the hobby. It seems like most of the admins are people who host wars on the East and West coasts and have been nerfing a long time. We need to emphasize the waring aspect of the hobby in order for it to continue. I think people should be acknowledged on the cite for going to wars and hosting them. because that is the interactive social part of the hobby and is maybe the only reason that people who have attended 25+ wars are still interested.

 

That being said, all this is true! Be the absolute best war-host you can be, build up a huge community attending your wars, stick around a long time, write well. If you do it, you are probably more likely to be made into a moderator, as you'll have shown significant dedication to the hobby and probably have met most of the people involved.


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#20 Spud Spudoni

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 09:22 PM

ONE thing I really miss is the ability to toggle between the vintage dark blue and the white for the site theme. So much easier on the eyes. 


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#21 fisher521

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 07:53 PM

What's the deal with warnings?

Okay. Warnings are just between you, the poster, and us, the moderation staff. It's only feedback from us. It's not a personal thing and it's not us punishing you. If you're posting useful information, we will bend over backwards to make it better, including going in and fixing formatting problems (e.g. malformed image links) ourselves. To reiterate, no one but you and us can see what we said to you about your post, and the goal isn't to be snarky or smug, it's to help you make the information you provide better.

 

I'm confused, when other people get warnings, I can see them. Is this supposed to happen?

 

Edit: Thanks, Langley! I understand now. 


Edited by fisher521, 26 March 2016 - 12:04 PM.

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#22 Langley

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Posted 25 March 2016 - 08:43 PM

I'm confused, when other people get warnings, I can see them. Is this supposed to happen?

 

Every user has a "# Warning Points" message next to all of their posts that only they and the moderators can see.  You should see it under your avatar, but not under anyone else's.  When the warning system is used, you get a little pop-up notification as well as an email with a message from a moderator, and this all gets logged in that "# Warning Points" link.  That's what Ice Nine is talking about when he says that it's between you and the moderators.

 

Often, when a user breaks a rule or makes a post which leaves a lot of room for improvement, we will fix it ourselves, use the warning system to talk to the user and give them an opportunity to make changes, or we will just set the post to 'hidden' (in the case of a necro that doesn't have any real cotent, or spam). 

 

Occasionally, we will edit a message into a post to let people know that a user was warned, suspended, or banned for a post.  This is not automatic, it's deliberate on the part of the moderator.  When a user breaks a rule in an obvious or overt way, I prefer to leave things as-is with a "

USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST
" message, typically accompanied by an explanation.   I do this because it is a transparent way of moderating the site (as opposed to just quietly deleting people's posts) and it doesn't bump the thread bringing even more attention to a bad post.  It also allows the user to make corrections, it allows members to continue to make constructive replies, and it acts as an example of what not to do.  Most importantly, it tells people that the situation has already been handled so that they don't feel compelled to backseat moderate or continue to report the post to the moderators. I'm assuming this message is what you are seeing.

 

We try to find other ways of handling things where possible, and even this is a huge departure from the way we used to deal with this sort of thing.  Namely, calling the user out for their behavior publicly for entertainment purposes, closing the thread, and suspending the user for 9999 days.

 

Edit: added some info.


Edited by Langley, 25 March 2016 - 08:57 PM.

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#23 Ice Nine

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Posted 27 March 2016 - 03:29 PM

The focus is solely on the results. The concept, the process, the modder, it's all received as an annoyance necessary to produce a write up. After submitting mods here, I've felt used. It's like we've forgotten that we're a group of teens and adults who play with toy friggan' guns! I appreciate the grammar checks - they're an essential part of communication, but the lack of open discussion, the kibosh on concepts and creativity, the lock down on positive feedback - it's soul sucking. Some may say that "nice mod dude!" doesn't add any content, but it doesn't take up that much space either, and it's extremely rewarding to have your hard work recognized by your peers - especially if it's a modder you respect and look up to. I'd be happy to scroll through a few pages of "nice mod dude" if it put the "community" back into the Nerf Internet Community. Interacting directly and creatively with other enthusiasts is like a happy cancer. It generates more creativity and enthusiasm. 

 

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way after posting content here. I don't agree, though, that this place is soulless. If you look at some of the recent mod threads, there are still people who post nothing more than praise, and there isn't anything wrong with that. The only time we warn people for posting those types of post are when they're necros of threads that are several months or years old. We won't punish anyone for posting compliments in recent threads; this has been true for a while, and if you look at old threads by dudes like Angel or Ryan then you'll see a lot of that. Thanks for the feedback; I appreciate hearing about that sentiment, even if it's not something that I perceive.

 

I think the admins should prevent threads like "Merf.co" from being so confusing by either taking it down or editing it. The reason why I think this should be done is since that overall the above thread made no sense whatsoever, and if I was new my reaction to that thread would be to leave the forum.(as a result of it making zero sense and all responses not helping at all.)

 

Would you really leave a forum if the first thread you came and saw was a nonsense joke like Merf.co? Usually, when I look at forums at which I'm not a member, I read a bunch of threads about topics or things that seem interesting and go from there. I would even be more inclined to stay if I saw some people making jokes (e.g. Langley's post about talking to his theoretical grandchildren) about a totally confusing post.

 

For example: if you came across the Electrical Audio forum and the first thread you saw was a guy claiming his $80,000 power cables were being held hostage, you probably wouldn't assume the whole forum was about that, especially when everyone starts making fun of him.

 

The main complaint I hear about NH is that when people log on and scroll through the forums they see either closed topics or help threads. I think it would be helpful to be able to move these two types of threads to their own sub forums, (maybe hidden) to allow new viewers to better see write ups.

 

Another aspect of NH that I think needs to be addressed are member titles and the contributor group. In the past it is difficult to get either a member title or in the contributor group. The build challenges have helped with this a little by giving some guide lines, but mostly the process of getting into the group or getting a member title have not been outlined. New definitions of how to get into that group should be defined. Also, there should be a path (and it seems like this has been the only way in the past) of getting in that group for people who host NIC wars. Having wars arguably shows the highest level of commitment a person can have in the hobby. It seems like most of the admins are people who host wars on the East and West coasts and have been nerfing a long time. We need to emphasize the waring aspect of the hobby in order for it to continue. I think people should be acknowledged on the cite for going to wars and hosting them. because that is the interactive social part of the hobby and is maybe the only reason that people who have attended 25+ wars are still interested. 

 

Thanks for your feedback. I don't agree that moving help threads and stuff to their own forums will be helpful, but I do think that we could do better on making write-up threads more available. The pinned topics are hard to maintain given that usually the people who run them stay in the hobby for a little while and then fade out, leaving a lot of stuff uncollected until the next person takes over. Hopefully the new tagging system will help with that, somewhat.

 

I also agree that people who host wars should get more recognition. That's one of the most important, and probably one of the least appreciated, things you can do in the NIC. Maybe some kind of promotional thing where hosting some n wars in some year period means you get to choose a member title. It might not be totally fair for someone in Siberia or other relative Nerf wastelands but it could be a good way to get people more involved. Langley largely answered the other components of this question, so I'll just finish up here.

 

This is all good discussion and I've enjoyed reading through it. Keep it coming, if you have anything else.


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