54 replies to this topic

[AnOoB]

Is there a best flywheel blaster dart for the rayven?

Koosh darts are really nice with flywheel blasters

[Pineapplepies]

That's definitely a dislike lol. Is there a best flywheel blaster dart for the rayven?

No not at all I love ACC darts just pointing out that I learned the hard way that they do not like flywheels   and koosh darts are good for any flywheels unless you have a flywheel gun with that "rifling" since it seems to catch the head of koosh darts and make everything terrible (so in other words you need to remove that "rifling" or sand it down to use koosh darts but it is worth it and should be done)

[The2ndBluesBro]

No not at all I love ACC darts just pointing out that I learned the hard way that they do not like flywheels   and koosh darts are good for any flywheels unless you have a flywheel gun with that "rifling" since it seems to catch the head of koosh darts and make everything terrible (so in other words you need to remove that "rifling" or sand it down to use koosh darts but it is worth it and should be done)

To fix the "rifling" get an old n strike barrel (frontgun works well since its long and useless) and cut it down to the same size as the original barrel. The ODs are the same so they just slot in.

[DjOnslaught]

No not at all I love ACC darts just pointing out that I learned the hard way that they do not like flywheels   and koosh darts are good for any flywheels unless you have a flywheel gun with that "rifling" since it seems to catch the head of koosh darts and make everything terrible (so in other words you need to remove that "rifling" or sand it down to use koosh darts but it is worth it and should be done)

I meant them disliking flywheel blasters not you disliking them.

[TheNerfZilla]

Has anyone had any luck finding the gen 2 ACC/Nipple/Chunlin darts? I've heard good things about them.

[The2ndBluesBro]

Has anyone had any luck finding the gen 2 ACC/Nipple/Chunlin darts? I've heard good things about them.

Yeah, I bought some from the seller amazingbox on eBay.

[AnOoB]

I've tried ACCs in my 4B but they just start tumbling mid air everytime

[Pineapplepies]

I've tried ACCs in my 4B but they just start tumbling mid air everytime

Try cutting them down, that has seemed to help a lot of issues like the one you have run into, and the cut down ACCs/bulleyes(Long live the name 2BlueBros proposed!)also are a little more accurate than full length ACCs

[Far More Badass]

What type of dart would you recommend for a Rapidstrike with three 180s and a BSUK wiring and switch kit? I just ordered a 100pc set of Koosh Gen 3s.

[The2ndBluesBro]

What type of dart would you recommend for a Rapidstrike with three 180s and a BSUK wiring and switch kit? I just ordered a 100pc set of Koosh Gen 3s.

Koosh but replace the "rifled" barrel with one from an old school n strike blaster like the longshot frontgun or something (otherwise the kooshes go wild because the heads catch on the "rifling"). Also, I believe the weight distribution is massively improved when you cut the ACCs down. This seems to be the reason why they are so much better that way. 

Edited by The2ndBluesBro, 04 June 2016 - 09:12 PM.

[Far More Badass]

Could I use a piece of brass instead? Abd if so, what dimensions?

[Snoop Doggy doge]

If you have fishtail, add a longer barrel. That's usually how you fix fishtail. 4Bs usually get a 18 in or 16 in barrel with a 8-10 dart hopper. I would also cut the ACCs down, because you have more in your hopper! 

For the rapidstrike I think just koosh is fine, again I reccomend getting a bit of everything so you have a sample. This way you see what works best for you!

[AnOoB]

I know that cutting them down helps, i just wanted to tell you guys because only the ACCs do it. my FVJs and elites don't. (of course elites fly everywhere because of the hole)

 

what barrel length would you advise me to use for a couplered 4B?

i dont use a hopper because i cant get stuff like Y pieces here in the netherlands. 

[Snoop Doggy doge]

I think FVJs don't fishtail because it has a heavier head. I you should try just testing, but also 18 inch seems ideal. Probably can go longer though 
Here's something that may be relevant to you 

[AnOoB]

Thanks.
The barrel i am using at the moment is pvc and being sold as 5/8" when i put a dart in it is not snug but can move freely although you almost cant see past the dart through the tube. Is that ok? Or should it grip my darts tighter?

[DjOnslaught]

The dart shouldn't fall out of the barrel on its own power but shouldn't be compressed in the barrel either from my understanding.

[The2ndBluesBro]

Thanks.
The barrel i am using at the moment is pvc and being sold as 5/8" when i put a dart in it is not snug but can move freely although you almost cant see past the dart through the tube. Is that ok? Or should it grip my darts tighter?

5/8" ID or OD? You usually need approx 1/2" ID (although some barrels are slightly different like brass and PETG)

[AnOoB]

I cant measure it right now but it does fall out if i keep it upside down, i have had access to a chrony a couple of weeks ago and most times it gets around 240 fps so i guess it works fine. Somewhere else i read that with a good airgun fit the dart wil slide out on its own but go really slow if you keep your finger on it.

[DX-Robert]

If you have an air blaster, the fit you want depends on its power.  The weaker it is, the looser the fit you want.  Got a strong air blaster with a large tank (especially a 4B)?  Use a fit so tight that a springer won't run it.  This is why most air gunners max out around 250-270 FPS with #8s...they regurgitate an old idea that chronograph data in 2016 does not support.  Think!  Test!  Experiment!

#8s can be run at 280-300 FPS out of the exact same blaster with nothing changed except making the dart fit much tighter.  Once those darts have become well-used and worn out, their fit gets looser, and those exact same darts now run back down at 250-270 FPS.  The almost fall-through fit you describe is even worse - I was getting 180-260 FPS out of that, with wild inconsistency in velocity, range, accuracy, and precision.  

When the dart fit is optimal or acceptably near optimal, your velocity band will be very tight - your high outliers should be no more than 20-30 FPS from your low outliers.  You should be able to repeat these results across hundreds of shots, the band stays tight.  #8 and #6 slugs will still vary in range, accuracy, and precision, due to each one being made individually, but at least their velocity will be consistent.  Using suction clone slugs (SCS, which I still haven't made the writeup for, but it's coming) you can really see the result of conforming the velocity into such a narrow band - those darts do fly at about the same range, with surprisingly good accuracy and bash-me-over-the-head precision.  Once you let the fit loosen, all hell breaks loose, the darts go everywhere with that same wild inconsistency of loose-fitting slugs.

TL/DR:  You have a 4B?  Use a tight fit, not a loose one!

[Meaker VI]

If you have an air blaster, the fit you want depends on its power.  The weaker it is, the looser the fit you want.  Got a strong air blaster with a large tank (especially a 4B)?  Use a fit so tight that a springer won't run it.  This is why most air gunners max out around 250-270 FPS with #8s...they regurgitate an old idea that chronograph data in 2016 does not support.  Think!  Test!  Experiment!

When the dart fit is optimal or acceptably near optimal...

 

So what material would you recommend for a barrel? I've been experimenting recently because CPVC is *so* unreliable. Is there just a set of stock parts with good tolerance you can point to, or is it just a tested thing?

[Snoop Doggy doge]

.495 or .527 aluminum from Mcmaster is pretty nice but a bitch to ream. DX runs a .527 at 18 inches on his 4BR, I run a .495 at 16 inches in my DemonRainbow (30kg of fuck you) 

Polyester or any other pipe is usually good as a barrel. CPVC and PVC have inconsistent ID which is what gives to things like magic PVC, or some CPVC that you can drop a dart through while others you can't even make it fit. Some people use brass I hear, 

[DX-Robert]

At the power levels we typically play at in NIC/DIY style nerf, the ID of the barrel matters far more than the material.  Tight CPVC ran my #8 slugs just as well as the .527 aluminum, from a 2nd gen 4B with less power, even though that CPVC was too tight to even twist fit those darts into it.  Loose fits are better at long barrel lengths, but for practical purposes on the field, 18" is the longest barrel I would use for a primary of 4B length.  I still typically run 16" of .527 aluminum.  There's not enough of a difference at 18", so the shorter barrel is better, and weaker air blasters run the 16" better as well.  The length is still rather arbitrary, I never bothered testing 17", or 15".

If you want a barrel with less friction, use brass.  If you want a barrel that shoots thick foam, use .527 aluminum or polyester.  If you want a really lightweight barrel, use PETG.  It ultimately does not matter most of the time, as long as the fit is optimal.

[AnOoB]

The strange thing is that i got 240 fps quite consistently with elite darts and a pvc barrel in which the darts could move freely on my 4B without the oprv plugged, how would you explain that? Now i am using cut down fvjs and it seems to be very accurate.
Edit: you were right, i thought the velocities were consistent but now i think about it they were varying in the precise way that you described. Still, cut down fvjs seem to be very accurate.

Edited by AnOoB, 14 June 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[The2ndBluesBro]

The strange thing is that i got 240 fps quite consistently with elite darts and a pvc barrel in which the darts could move freely on my 4B without the oprv plugged, how would you explain that? Now i am using cut down fvjs and it seems to be very accurate.
Edit: you were right, i thought the velocities were consistent but now i think about it they were varying in the precise way that you described. Still, cut down fvjs seem to be very accurate.

Elite darts are lighter and so will go faster but spiral out of control quickly and depending on how tight the barrel is will split open. Check out zaurko's video on how people fake fps claims using blanks (pieces of FBR with no weights, the lightest thing you can fire) if you want some more explanation of this. I believe range and accuracy are better indicators of a blaster's performance because of this.

[DX-Robert]

Consistent high performance is the gold standard.  It's not enough to have all the darts fly at high range, but only some of them stay in line with your target, and it's not enough to have 280 FPS one shot and then 230 FPS the next.  Range, velocity, accuracy, and precision should be considered together as a package.  Longer, faster, closer, tighter.  If you only have some of these, or you have all of these some of the time, you're going to suffer inconsistent results on the field.  You've got to be able to stand in during a high stakes exchange and deliver that clutch shot, with confidence that your dart will go where you want it to.  Inconsistency can erode the confidence of even the most skilled players.

As mentioned in some other thread, FVJs have acceptable-enough performance to be used exclusively in an NIC/DIY war.  I had a small (8 person) event called "Private Narfs" last year in the woods behind my house where we used only cut down FVJs out of almost all air blasters.  They hopped, it worked, we lost most of them, but that was why we used FVJs.  That said, consistency was bad.  I had some shots veer off literally sideways.  Some shots missed me by ridiculous distances.  The more you pumped, the worse the accuracy, but the less you pumped, the higher the risk of a misfeed.  

Compare that to using something like SCS, which is a snipped, cut down USC with a felt bumper on the head.  If we'd had SCS, Private Narfs would have gone down exactly like a regular NIC/DIY war with slugs, with one exception - SCS are more precise than slugs.  In an open field with full mobility, this is not a noticeable advantage, but in woods play where people tend to post up and move less, precision is important.  You might not hit them, but if you can keep putting darts in the same location shot after shot, you can keep them pinned down while your teammates flank wide.