152 replies to this topic

[Remzak]

I actually think an injection mold is within reach. Even if the mold costs $50,000 to create all that we would just need 500 people to pledge 100$ for a better crossbow. Everyone gets a crossbow, and we have a mold to make INFINITE crossbows. It could potentially pay for itself. Just something to consider. The active nerf community is about 10,000 strong. I think we could drum up the support we needed. Just some things to consider.

[Langley]

You're crazy.  I don't know where you're getting those numbers.  First off, people outside of the NIC style nerf community aren't interested in crossbows.  Based on the number of people who are active on NerfHaven, I'd guess there is an absolute maximum of 500 people who actively participate in NIC style nerf, including people who aren't on NH.  I'd be shocked if more than 5% of them have $100 to blow on a nerf gun, and would rather spend that money on an injection molded crossbow replica than some other homemade design (probably with pump action). You're also not accounting for the per-unit cost of actually making the crossbows once you have put in the setup cost of the mold and the equipment to use it.   

 

Back in 2004 or so, somebody was selling a ton of NIB crossbows on ebay for $50 each, so this was half the price you quoted and it was back when a crossbow was your best possible option for an NIC blaster.  They definitely sold fewer than 500. 

[The2ndBluesBro]

You're crazy.  I don't know where you're getting those numbers.  First off, people outside of the NIC style nerf community aren't interested in crossbows.  Based on the number of people who are active on NerfHaven, I'd guess there is an absolute maximum of 500 people who actively participate in NIC style nerf, including people who aren't on NH.  I'd be shocked if more than 5% of them have $100 to blow on a nerf gun, and would rather spend that money on an injection molded crossbow replica than some other homemade design (probably with pump action). You're also not accounting for the per-unit cost of actually making the crossbows once you have put in the setup cost of the mold and the equipment to use it.   

 

Back in 2004 or so, somebody was selling a ton of NIB crossbows on ebay for $50 each, so this was half the price you quoted and it was back when a crossbow was your best possible option for an NIC blaster.  They definitely sold fewer than 500. 

Not to mention most NIC nerfers (like me) use +bows instead

 

Langley Edit: But I *did* mention it. Look!

[Spud Spudoni]

 

 
No no, you misread me. It's both definitely possible to create a strong part and definitely 'expensive' to do this. It's possible to mass-manufacture, it's possible to micro-manufacture. It's possible to 3d print. Each method will have pros and cons. In this context, the cons of CNC and resin casting it that the material costs are high. Every method we're talking about requires specialist machinery (CNC, 3d Printer, Injection mold) which serves as a high threshold to the individual, so the cost of the part produced is what matters. 3d Printing and injection molding will both use plastic, so the cost of the part should be more marginal, except that I don't expect 10,000+ people to want to purchase these things so injection molding is right out IMO.

Right, I understand what you're saying. I definitely think that if the community is ready to take a step towards recreating shells for blasters, every option needs to be weighed in to see which method has the best opportunity cost. As of right now, I just want to know what is possible. Figuring out what is the best can come later, when a few ideas come to fruition. Whether that's waiting another two years for Drac's crossbow to come back with anything conclusive in 3D printing, or waiting until I have the funds to do a resin cast, is yet to be seen.
 

 

 
Sorry, I misunderstood. Based on your diagram and what you said about layering and standing the trigger up, I thought you were talking about casting the whole shell in one piece. 
 

No no, the only reason I mentioned layering the trigger up, is so that you have something sticking out of the mold that would stop resin from overflowing over the trigger mold, and would give you something to grab onto when attempting to take the negative mold out.
 

 

 
I haven't worked with resin before, so I'm just talking out of my ass at this point, but I had thought that a rigid mockup of the internals with maybe a couple of coats of glossy paint and some mold release would pop right out of the resin. You could probably taper and bevel the square parts slightly so that they come out more easily.  I've seen videos of people making parts out of fiberglass using a rigid mold coated in wax, but the fiberglass is flexible enough to work off the rigid mold, so maybe that's the key difference.
 

Me either, but I know a little bit about fabrication, and prototyping with the early amount of schooling I've had so far. Maybe if silicon (because as a material, nothing sticks to it, can be covered in wax or a combination of other non stick substances, maybe we can get something easy to remove. I'll keep looking into silicon negatives molds in a cast.
 
I know about fiberglass, but always assumed that it wouldn't work as well for some reason, probably due to the amount of flex fiberglass has when set. But honestly, ABS probably has much less tensile strength, and as you said, that flex could really help in removing negative molds from a cast; like ice cubes in an ice cube tray. Then, putting in reinforcing plates will be no different than what is normally required for a crossbow. But I feel like someone a few years ago tried this, and it ended up messy. I'll have to look more into it. The ultimate draw for me in using epoxy resin, is the ability to put items into the mold that can be seen when the shell is together. Darts, Coins, or some other type of items inside of a clear crossbow shell sounds insane. But whatever works, works.

 

 

I actually think an injection mold is within reach. Even if the mold costs $50,000 to create all that we would just need 500 people to pledge 100$ for a better crossbow. Everyone gets a crossbow, and we have a mold to make INFINITE crossbows. It could potentially pay for itself. Just something to consider. The active nerf community is about 10,000 strong. I think we could drum up the support we needed. Just some things to consider.

I mean, yeah that is something that could work if we had everyone in the community (active or not) contribute. I just don't understand the draw for injection molding at this point for the crossbow and tornado bow. No one uses those shells to put stock internals in them anymore, so why do we need to have an injection mold for the inside of the shell? As long as there is enough room for the internals that matter, the rest of the shell can be filled in and it would be much stronger as a result. This can be achieved with silicon molding for sure. Now, it won't be able to make an infinite number of shells (maybe at most 50) but it could cost as less as 25 dollars for a mold of both sides of the shell (I haven't looked into the quality of silicon molding ingredients at that price, as forewarning so take that with a grain of salt). And that is much more effective than a 50,000 dollar mold. There are plenty more alternatives for molding other than silicon over injection, so cheaper options are still out there.

Edited by Ice Nine, 12 April 2016 - 07:49 PM.

[Langley]

I know about fiberglass, but always assumed that it wouldn't work as well for some reason, probably due to the amount of flex fiberglass has when set. But honestly, ABS probably has much less tensile strength, and as you said, that flex could really help in removing negative molds from a cast; like ice cubes in an ice cube tray. Then, putting in reinforcing plates will be no different than what is normally required for a crossbow. But I feel like someone a few years ago tried this, and it ended up messy. I'll have to look more into it. The ultimate draw for me in using epoxy resin, is the ability to put items into the mold that can be seen when the shell is together. Darts, Coins, or some other type of items inside of a clear crossbow shell sounds insane. But whatever works, works.

I was reading about replica proton packs on the RPF, and there was a guy who said he only did a 1-2 layer fiberglass pack that he was able to stand on with minimal flexing.  People who make proton packs and other props as well as higher-end model boats are a great resource for fiberglass.  A lot of actual boats are made from fiberglass as their main structural component, and it holds up, although that's obviously going to be much thicker than a blaster shell.  I think if you were to embed some metal hardware into the fiberglass for mounting the catch, spring rest, and bushing/plunger tube, you'll be fine. 

 

The possibility of a translucent crossbow shell with artifacts from the old days of the NIC suspended in it had occurred to me, yes.

[Remzak]

Molding fiberglass and carbon fiber sucks. Been there, done that, do not recommend. The numberS I was quoting were based on the number of subscribers and viewers on the nerf subreddit. I agree the numbers needed to create a mold are likely not achievable, but if the mold was say $10,000 I think it would be within reach.
Edit: What are words

Edited by Remzak, 12 April 2016 - 08:20 PM.

[Pointman9]

I apologize for contributing to the creation of this thread monster and for hijacking the hell out of the original intent, but I do legitimately have more input.  Has anyone considered making a pepakura cardstock pattern and producing a shell molding from that or perhaps even just using it as a shell?  This may sound absolutely impossible, but properly resined (?) pepakura can be incredibly strong.  Also, let me be the one to say the Crossbow shell is stupid.  They are short and uncomfortable for anyone that isn't a midget.  There has to be a better shell out there.

Edited by Pointman9, 13 April 2016 - 12:15 AM.

[The2ndBluesBro]

There has to be a better shell out there.

Such as the namesake of this thread?? And the crossbow is actually quite comfortable. Sure, it could be a bit better, but as far as premade shells goes the Crossbow and Tornado are king. 

[Spud Spudoni]

I apologize for contributing to the creation of this thread monster and for hijacking the hell out of the original intent, but I do legitimately have more input.  Has anyone considered making a pepakura cardstock pattern and producing a shell molding from that or perhaps even just using it as a shell?  This may sound absolutely impossible, but properly resined (?) pepakura can be incredibly strong.  Also, let me be the one to say the Crossbow shell is stupid.  They are short and uncomfortable for anyone that isn't a midget.  There has to be a better shell out there.

I don't think I'd EVER trust paper or cardstock coated in fiberglass to hold up a spring load. No matter how much fiberglass you put in it, it just would be too thin overall. Knowing Pepakura, I assume you could make screw ports for the shell halves. Otherwise, there's no way I could see the two halves staying together unless you used glue. Again, the material is just too thin. Yes you could layer fiberglass up to a decent thickness, but that would be very uneven, and probably very messy to basically paint that onto cardstock. If you can explain that in more detail, I may believe pepakura could work. But for now, I see no way to create a blaster shell efficiently, accurately, and strong enough to work with homemade internals.

[Pointman9]

I don't think I'd EVER trust paper or cardstock coated in fiberglass to hold up a spring load. No matter how much fiberglass you put in it, it just would be too thin overall. Knowing Pepakura, I assume you could make screw ports for the shell halves. Otherwise, there's no way I could see the two halves staying together unless you used glue. Again, the material is just too thin. Yes you could layer fiberglass up to a decent thickness, but that would be very uneven, and probably very messy to basically paint that onto cardstock. If you can explain that in more detail, I may believe pepakura could work. But for now, I see no way to create a blaster shell efficiently, accurately, and strong enough to work with homemade internals.

 

 

 

I don't actually do pepakura so I can't quite elaborate on it, but I do know that they basically impregnate the cardstock with either fiberglass or resin inside and outside of the prop, and then usually harden with Bondo or a similar car body filler.  Bondo would probably not work for our uses as it is far too brittle.  For our purposes, perhaps the inside of the shell could have a much thicker layer of resin/fiberglass/hardener, and may be uneven but it would be on the inside, so no one would see it.  My main thought about using a pepakura shell was for the vacuforming form though, and not for using it standalone as a shell.

[Langley]

Here's a great example of how prop makers do it: http://www.therpf.co...-videos-148598/

 

I think if you used a similar method to make a mold to vacuform onto, that could work, but then you're still dealing with either a very flimsy or very low-detail vacuformed shell, and it would also represent a ton of hours of work.  The guy making that masterchief helmet is obviously pretty good at both papercraft and sculpting, and is probably putting hundreds of hours into that thing.

 

It seems like a reasonable place to start if you want to go from a 3D model to fiberglass though, but you're going to have to add any detail work you want yourself, like the guy making the helmet.  Someone with some skill and a lot of time could probably make it work for a one-off.

[Meaker VI]

I apologize for contributing to the creation of this thread monster and for hijacking the hell out of the original intent, but I do legitimately have more input.  Has anyone considered making a pepakura cardstock pattern and producing a shell molding from that or perhaps even just using it as a shell?  This may sound absolutely impossible, but properly resined (?) pepakura can be incredibly strong.

I don't think I'd EVER trust paper or cardstock coated in fiberglass...

 
It'd be a bear to actually build with all the curves, but if someone put up a 3d model that'd be the best way to share it so anyone *could* use it. The actual blaster would probably be best built nearly completely separately, with the shell being literally just a shell. Relevant guide on building something about as complex
 

Maybe if silicon (because as a material, nothing sticks to it, can be covered in wax or a combination of other non stick substances, maybe we can get something easy to remove. I'll keep looking into silicon negatives molds in a cast.

 
*smacks forehead* Hur dur, of course silicon would make a great mold... And it'd be basically completely accurate with little work on the moldmaker's part with no computer involved. The other relevant post on that.
 

The nice part there is whoever has a crossbow could start making molds with just a little setup and some silicone and resin.

[Righteous Fondue]

I've been really inactive with this hobby and busy with lots of cosplay, resin work, 3d modelling, and the like, but after looking at a lot of techniques involved in them a mold for any blaster should be really easy to make. It won't be easy to get all the screw ports in place with this technique, but you can likely just epoxy stand-offs or nuts into the shell, or 3D print and glue them in place. 

1) Make a Mold for the whole blaster, easiest way to do it would be to screw it together with no internals, put small amounts of epoxy putty or bondo into the unnecessary cavities, and cover all holes in the shell like the opening for the barrel and plunger tube in a way that it would leave an outline and be easy to dremel out afterwards. The basic idea for the mold would be this: 

http://makezine.com/...ard-shell-mold/

mixed with this: https://www.youtube....h?v=USvTtyaj6Go| and this https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

 

2) Essentially you close the two halves of the mold, pour some resin (Like Smoothcast) in, and slush cast it, swirling it around until you have a thin layer of resin covering the whole inside of the mold. Repeat until you get it thick and solid enough to be sturdy. Once you're done, pull it from the mold, and you'll have a hollow shell of the blaster in one piece.

3) Slice the shell in half, along the seam of the original blaster's shell (or in a different area if you'd like) and you'll have two hollow halves of the shell which can't be connected. From here you can do something like the Expanding Foam Xbow internals and slap a rainbow into it, or you could 3D print supports for the internals and glue them in place, or if you're skilled enough you can build small 'dams' inside the shell, like gluing a piece of cardboard/foamboard into the shell, blocking certain parts off, then filling the voids with resin to form the shell supports.

It's not an in-depth guide tutorial, but something I've been thinking of for a little while, and have been wondering why nobody in the community messes with molds and casting. Products like the MHA 3d printed pieces could be mass-produced much easier and quicker, as well as with more variety than just printing them from scratch. All you would have to do is 3D print one set of parts for a blaster, prep, sand, and smooth them very finely, and make a mold. You'd only need to touch up a single set of parts for the master instead of every set you make. 

Another thing you can do is modify the blasters before you make a mold of them, and every produced shell will have the same features. I'm thinking mostly of just hacking the stock off of a crossbow, gluing some plastic rod between the base blaster and the stock to extend it, then bondoing over the whole thing so you can have a very clean stock looking crossbow of reasonable proportions. Also the resin can be multi-colored, or CLEAR. Yes, CLEAR Xbow or Tornado shells. 


When school ends and I have time I'll be looking into this more in depth. 

TL;DR Slush casting and mold making would make this easier than injection molding or solid-molding pieces. 
 

Edited by Righteous Fondue, 17 April 2016 - 12:49 AM.

[Spud Spudoni]

Thanks for the input Fondue, and welcome back to the community. You present some ideas that I never thought possible; slush casting. I'll have to look into how this done further as to how this is done, but this could close the price gap of using resin as a casting material by making a hollow shell for the internals instead of filling in the whole thing while still being relatively strong if done in layers.

 

How long would multiple layers of slush casting take to cure? I assume not as long as a normal resin pour [day(s)].

 

I also assume slush casting could be done in a half of a shell mold instead of a full mold? That would reduce the need for a precision cut down the middle of the mold later, and would ensure the two halves fit properly as long as they're molded properly. 

 

The expanding foam writeup could work excellently for this as well, totally forgot about that. It might not look pretty in a clear shell, but fabrication first and fine tuning later. That would work for the plungertube, and as long as a rainbow is being used, the catch as well. But how would the priming bar and trigger sit properly? The trigger could just be bolted and spaced in the center of the handle, but the centering of the priming bar may need some thought.

[Righteous Fondue]

Slush-cast cure time varies depending on the resin, but if you let it set overnight you'll be fine. Its a matter of hours, not days.
 

Casting a half-shell at a time is possible, but could be messier, or more difficult, as the resin is more likely to spill out. It shouldn't be too hard to cut the shell in half if you leave some tabs or indents to indicate where to cut with a dremel.

The trigger and priming bar could be difficult, especially the trigger since there are some very specific pieces holding it in place. I'd say you can just mark half the thickness of it on each side, and cut a slot out, but it varies depending on the blaster.

Priming bar shouldn't be hard if you leave a cavity/indent of the slot for it, just make sure the internals you put in are centered. 

[Maniacal Coyote]

Um, is there any risk of Hasbro cracking down on whoever figures this out? Or would that person only have to worry if they sold a ****-ton of the shells?

I'd hate for the community to discover a way to make new xbow shells, only for Hascorp to issue the community at large a cease-and-desist order.

 

Also, why are we trying to start with replicating a large blaster? Wouldn't it be cheaper to prove the concepts on smaller blasters (like the Tech Target Eliminator) than large ones?

After the pool season starts, I'm planning on getting silicone and resin to replicate the shell of my Eliminator. (Until then, I'm going to try to research how to cast stuff in resin during my occasional breaks from homework.)

[The2ndBluesBro]

Um, is there any risk of Hasbro cracking down on whoever figures this out? Or would that person only have to worry if they sold a ****-ton of the shells?

I'd hate for the community to discover a way to make new xbow shells, only for Hascorp to issue the community at large a cease-and-desist order.

 

Also, why are we trying to start with replicating a large blaster? Wouldn't it be cheaper to prove the concepts on smaller blasters (like the Tech Target Eliminator) than large ones?

After the pool season starts, I'm planning on getting silicone and resin to replicate the shell of my Eliminator. (Until then, I'm going to try to research how to cast stuff in resin during my occasional breaks from homework.)

No, this is a koosh blaster, even if we do a crossbow I believe kenner owns the rights and they will never see this anyway, guaranteed, nor do they care

 

We are starting with these because they're the only shells worth replicating due to rarity and use

[Meaker VI]

Um, is there any risk of Hasbro cracking down on whoever figures this out?

IANAL: Eh, yes and no. If we start selling NIB crossbows by the ten-thousands, maybe. If we make a few and distribute them amongst ourselves and pay each other basically material costs, no probably not. I'm not sure if the shells are patented, in which case it'd almost have to have expired by now, or copyrighted in which case it's a murky mess of rules, law, tradition, and precedent. Since they're not making the shells though, and all we're making is the shell (possibly plus our own new internals), they wouldn't really have a case since they couldn't claim we were really cutting into their current crossbow sales.
 
Copyright, as I understand it, also really only protects the exact expression of an art or object. Making a casting of their object could be claimed as our new derivative artwork. For instance, copying a book word-for-word: Copyright violation. Paraphrasing it: not copyright violation, maybe derivative depending on the paraphrase. It gets really murky with actual artwork (paintings, pictures, sketches, etc.etc.etc.). Photo of your painting: probably not a copyright violation. Painting of your painting: really probably not a violation. And to further make copyright painful to figure out, being sued because you violated it largely depends on the willingness of the copyright holder to persue a claim against you, your worth as a defendant, and what you're making off the violation. Those three are what make me feel fine about this: we have no worth, we aren't making money doing it, and they haven't really persued that kind of thing against anyone else for anything they're doing (knockoff/3d printed sledge fire shells, clips/mags, darts that are clearly direct copies, etc. etc.).
 
If it was Star Wars, or Marvel, or Disney (...er, one in the same I guess), or Game's Workshop, or some other company that gets all it's funding from copyrighted IP, then they'd have more reason to spend money chasing smaller and smaller fish. GW is *notorious* for this, chasing even fans of the material who make and share models based on their universes. I think in some cases even when they actually have no right to do so; i.e.: the person filed against actually made the thing up from scratch and it's possibly entirely unique to them but *looks* like it fits in a GW work.
 

Also, why are we trying to start with replicating a large blaster? Wouldn't it be cheaper to prove the concepts on smaller blasters (like the Tech Target Eliminator) than large ones?
After the pool season starts, I'm planning on getting silicone and resin to replicate the shell of my Eliminator. (Until then, I'm going to try to research how to cast stuff in resin during my occasional breaks from homework.)

This one is legendary, most small blasters are not. Good smaller blasters also aren't hard to come by, and it's really easy to replicate or exceed the performance of a smaller blaster and get a good form-factor. And *large* blasters require 2 hands to hold, small blasters only take one, so all you really need is a handle you like and you're set. Though I may now have a new side-project to do on my shiny-new 3d Printer that would tie in just fine with other projects...

 

The L+L and TTG would be prime subjects in my book if anyone is going that route though.

[Maniacal Coyote]

No, this is a koosh blaster, even if we do a crossbow I believe kenner owns the rights and they will never see this anyway, guaranteed, nor do they care
 
We are starting with these because they're the only shells worth replicating due to rarity and use

Sure, these shells are extremely rare and valuable, but isn't that just as much of a reason to test our techniques out on smaller, more common shells?
I would rather fubar a Sharp Shot or Eliminator shell and waste a small amount of materials than accidentally throw away several hundred dollars of supplies extracting a Crossbow shell from a silicone grave.

What are rookies recommended to start with? Complicated creations like the +bow or simple pieces like the SNAP?

[Spud Spudoni]

Sure, these shells are extremely rare and valuable, but isn't that just as much of a reason to test our techniques out on smaller, more common shells?
I would rather fubar a Sharp Shot or Eliminator shell and waste a small amount of materials than accidentally throw away several hundred dollars of supplies extracting a Crossbow shell from a silicone grave.

What are rookies recommended to start with? Complicated creations like the +bow or simple pieces like the SNAP?

Because who cares if you cast a blaster no one cares about? I mean, you have a good point but as you said, the cost of materials is very high. So for most of us, its one good chance to get it right or nothing. Tornado or bust. Yeah there's less to mess up in going with a smaller blaster, but if I have a certain amount of money to spend on a gamble, I'd rather do it once and hope I get a good cast, versus hoping to get a good cast with a little bit of money, then spending more materials hoping to get another good cast on a bigger mold.

 

For some of us who have access to shops with all of the equipment needed for this, the percentage of error is greatly reduced, so going the bigger mold is a better option if time is of a concern. I can't be doing a ton of molds with our equipment in studio. The best I can hope for is one good shot.

 

EDIT: At this point, I have found a way to make a complete silicon mold of the inside and outside of one side of the shell with one mold. Hopefully with the proper tools, this won't be a concept any longer. I'll post on this when I have more concrete results.

Edited by Spud Spudoni, 19 April 2016 - 09:34 PM.

[Meaker VI]

Sure, these shells are extremely rare and valuable, but isn't that just as much of a reason to test our techniques out on smaller, more common shells?
I would rather fubar a Sharp Shot or Eliminator shell and waste a small amount of materials than accidentally throw away several hundred dollars of supplies extracting a Crossbow shell from a silicone grave.

What are rookies recommended to start with? Complicated creations like the +bow or simple pieces like the SNAP?

As I understand it, silicone molding doesn't usually result in a destroyed original. Vaccuforming and some other methods of casting might. Copy-carving wouldn't either, and 3d scanning and printing does literally nothing to the shell. If I were going the mold route, I might do a smaller one to test it out because the mold making materials are more expensive purely by volume, but you'd probably be buying enough to do the crossbow *and* some other blaster anyway.

EDIT: At this point, I have found a way to make a complete silicon mold of the inside and outside of one side of the shell with one mold. Hopefully with the proper tools, this won't be a concept any longer. I'll post on this when I have more concrete results.

Why do you need the inside? It is designed for use with injection-molded ABS with injection-molded internals designed to precisely fit it. Using the interior for any other material is likely to end in unnecessary frustration and/or outright failure.

[Spud Spudoni]

Why do you need the inside? It is designed for use with injection-molded ABS with injection-molded internals designed to precisely fit it. Using the interior for any other material is likely to end in unnecessary frustration and/or outright failure.

No you're right in that there really should be no reason to mold the inside. But if you apply a vacuum injection mold with resin, you take out a lot of the error and it's really much easier to do it this way. If I'm just doing a mold of the complete half shell, then I don't have to worry about the trigger sitting properly, the catch sitting properly, or other internals getting in error if I plan on making negative molds for them. The rule is the less things that have the ability to fuck up, the better. If I only have to worry about a two part silicon mold and the resin, then I'd be better off. In terms of the interior getting in the way, from what I've seen of my tornado and of other mods, very little shell modification is needed to install new internals, so it shouldn't be a huge problem. My goal (at least if I ever mold a crossbow) is to do an initial exact mold, install and remove things that don't need to be there (the ABS that people cut out for the plunger tube and a thicker spring rest), then I can just re-cast that resin mold again, without ever having to do any alterations to the original shell. This altered resin mold will also be our solution to the copyright issue. It may look the same on the outside, but the inside can be completely different.

[Gemeneye]

No, this is a koosh blaster, even if we do a crossbow I believe kenner owns the rights and they will never see this anyway, guaranteed, nor do they care

 

We are starting with these because they're the only shells worth replicating due to rarity and use

Koosh is owned by a company called Oddzon, which is the company that ordered the creation of the launcher and owns the patent.  Also, the patent for the Tornado runs out on May 23 of this year, so there is little to worry about as far as legality goes.  

[Draconis]

Given these factors:

• Possible (though improbable) legal ramifications.
• Disagreements about imperfections of the Tornado and Crossbow shells for NIC-caliber use.
• Arbitrary placement of screw posts and vital features without regard to our preferences.
• Mediocre strength members.

 

Here's is the question you should ask yourselves:  Why would we spend all of this time and effort replicating an existing shell, when we have plenty of talented artists and 3D modelers in this community who are capable of designing /exactly/ what we want?

[Gemeneye]

Given these factors:

• Possible (though improbable) legal ramifications.
• Disagreements about imperfections of the Tornado and Crossbow shells for NIC-caliber use.
• Arbitrary placement of screw posts and vital features without regard to our preferences.
• Mediocre strength members.

 

Here's is the question you should ask yourselves:  Why would we spend all of this time and effort replicating an existing shell, when we have plenty of talented artists and 3D modelers in this community who are capable of designing /exactly/ what we want?

Personally, I have little to no interest in using the shells for homemade internals.  If I did, I would have tracked down a crossbow and scanned that.  The Koosh Vortex line is my favorite blaster line, and I wanted to have a way to make myself shells to mess around with without destroying originals.  Beyond that, I was just curious to see if it could be done.