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Battery and motor help

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#1 Yacob

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 09:43 PM

I am in need of some help. I am currently modifying my first flywheel blaster, my Rayven, and I am confused still confused on batteries and motors.
My current Plan is to buy a set of Pololu 611's for the front motors of an afterburner mod, and power the entire thing with a set of LiPo batteries, as my dad and I are getting into electric model airplanes, and will have several batteries on hand. Ideally what i would like to do is be able to wire in a set of Aircraft quick disconnect plugs, so I can also easily switch out the LiPos for 9 volt Batteries, as I would like to be able to use it for my local HvZ group. My question is, will these motors work on 9v, or are there better ones that just drop in without too much modification out there for what I am doing? Also, would i be better off using a different set of rear motors with more torque, like a set of set of Power Dashes? I have read so many different opinions that I have confused myself. Any help would be appreciated, thank you.
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#2 jwasko

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:59 PM

I, too, have been doing a lot of research on flywheel blasters, motors, and batteries. Though I haven't gotten to actually try them out for myself (saving for a house takes a good bit out of the hobby budget), I suggest the motors talked about here in place of the stock motors. No afterburners required, but you will need to cut some holes in the shell because the motors are a bit longer than the stock ones.

Run them using a 2S (7.4V) LiPo, with something like a 25C rating. I think that they will also handle a 3S LiPo (11.1V I believe) if you really wanted, so running them via 9Volt shouldn't burn them up.

On the other hand, because you'll be getting less current out of the 9Volt battery, you'll probably have problems with spinup time and rapid-fire (in other words, your range will decrease and/or your gun will jam if you try to fire too quickly).

I suggest reading that blog for more info. You'll want to rewire the blaster with larger gauge wire and use a better acceleration switch (all of which will let the LiPo get more current to the motors).
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#3 Lunas

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:05 PM

I, too, have been doing a lot of research on flywheel blasters, motors, and batteries. Though I haven't gotten to actually try them out for myself (saving for a house takes a good bit out of the hobby budget), I suggest the motors talked about here in place of the stock motors. No afterburners required, but you will need to cut some holes in the shell because the motors are a bit longer than the stock ones.

Run them using a 2S (7.4V) LiPo, with something like a 25C rating. I think that they will also handle a 3S LiPo (11.1V I believe) if you really wanted, so running them via 9Volt shouldn't burn them up.

On the other hand, because you'll be getting less current out of the 9Volt battery, you'll probably have problems with spinup time and rapid-fire (in other words, your range will decrease and/or your gun will jam if you try to fire too quickly).

I suggest reading that blog for more info. You'll want to rewire the blaster with larger gauge wire and use a better acceleration switch (all of which will let the LiPo get more current to the motors).

Most 25c 2s 7.4v will provide ~10-30A the best a 9v can do is .2A those motors suck down around 3-10A stall and use 1-3A at speed this means a 9v will not last for more than a few shots and those shots are going to suck. The only option that works without too much modification is imr 14500 li-mn batteries rayven holds 3 AA stock 2 and a dummy battery will make it scream and you wont need motors or afterburner my stryfe fires about 100 ft stock motors with 2 of these ditch the idea of using 9v batteries they have no use in nerf unless they are powering a flashlight.

Edited by Lunas, 24 November 2014 - 08:17 PM.

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#4 SolarFusion

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:39 PM

I second the advice on no 9 volt batteries. I used them in my Vulcan wired in a series of two and the ROF drops after the first couple of shots. Use some high quality batts and you'll be happier in the long run.


*EDIT* FYI, I've got a 9v in my Maverick for a pair of LEDs, a 9v is great for this purpose, they're awesomely bright.

Edited by SolarFusion, 24 November 2014 - 10:40 PM.

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#5 Guest_TheSilverhead_*

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 10:33 AM

180 Blades is the way to go, especially if you're already into aircraft R/C. Dedicate a 2S to the gun- and if you are really concerned about overpowered shots in a smaller group, wire in a potentiometer or a switch between 'open' and mildly resisted- you'll still get the longevity and discharge rate of a LiPo, but have the option to not hurl foam ropes if needed. Dodge 9V's like the plague- they die hilariously (and inconveniently!) fast during a war.
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#6 jwasko

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:43 PM

wire in a potentiometer or a switch between 'open' and mildly resisted- you'll still get the longevity and discharge rate of a LiPo, but have the option to not hurl foam ropes if needed.


Here is some info about using a resistor for slowing down pusher motors here

But I believe I've read that the best (?) way to reduce the speed on these motors is to add diodes (not the light-emitting kind, mind you) to the circuit to create a voltage drop. Like Silverhead said, you could use a switch to selectively add or remove these from the circuit. I think that a diode would decrease the voltage/motor speed while at the same time maintaining the current/motor torque/spin-up time/rate of fire. A resistor, on the other hand, would limit current...but I could be wrong on this.


This all works on Rapidstrike pusher motors, at least; I'm not sure if anyone has purposefully slowed down flywheel motors this way.
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#7 Yacob

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:02 PM

I am definitely leaning towards using the 180's, the only thing that worries me is that my local HvZ group might not let me use it, which is why I have a Stryfe with the locks removed, but the other question I have is that I want to put a barrel on it, for the sole purpose of giving me a mounting point for a second faux barrel that want to put another project in, is there a compound that I can use to line a slightly tighter actual barrel, kind of like a brass barrel like this (I take no credit for the video, this is entirely Containment Crew's mod) and not running it the entire way through the gun, so i could take the barrel off without the brass sticking out, and just having a 3/4 tube to prevent the dart from staying in the shell. Also, I am going to go through a wiring chart for wire gauge, but what do you suggest for new switches, a potentiometer, and a voltage meter? all of the switches I have seen are just people's leftovers, and I don't have a stock of parts. Thank you for the help!
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#8 Lunas

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:10 PM

you can run the stock motors on the IMR 14500 or 2s lipo the IMR has the benefit of looking fully stock you can use 2 or 3 but 2 is a decent improvement over AA and does not make the darts hit so hard that they feel too non stock but it does make them fly further and hit about as hard as the best shot stock.
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#9 jwasko

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:51 AM

Wait, are you brassing the Rayven or the Stryfe? If it's the rayven, what if you just cut the brass long enough so that it doesn't stick out of the Rayven shell and stays within the Rayven's (permanently attached) barrel?

If you are talking about using a stryfe like in the video, you could put a piece of 19/32" brass in the stubby little barrel in the stryfe to act as a coupler: glue a piece of 9/16" brass in it that goes from the magazine (clip) through the fly wheels to the 19/32", and then use a retaliator/recon barrel extension to house a second piece of 9/16" brass that will slot into the other end of the 19/32". No one would see the brass in the styfe itself unless they actually look down the barrel or into the jam door, etc.

I'm not sure if either of those would work with what you are actually trying to accomplish (what's your "another project?"), but it should work for a stock-appearing barrel replacement at least.

I don't think there are any "direct replacement" switches, but I believe they should be rated for 10amps. For speed control you might want to look at this topic (just don't use trusfires/ultrafires, please), or use diodes like I said earlier.

Edited by jwasko, 26 November 2014 - 01:58 AM.

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#10 Yacob

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 08:26 PM

To clear up confusion, Yes I am intending to brass the Rayven, and I probably will not brass the interior of the barrel extension, as it will just be there to under-mount my other project, an inline shotgunned triad with a larger piston for more range. My question was actually whether there was a grease or lubricant I can use to reduce friction in the barrel, so as to not slow down the dart as much? I'm not going for something that can be used to eat shit from 1000 feet away, but I like to hedge my bets on the powerful side so I can have to tune it down, instead of put more money into it to up tune it a second time. For the batteries, does 2s versus 3s make a difference? I know(I think) that the more mAH a batter has, the longer it will last, but what difference do the amount of cells make, if any? we are ordering motors and batteries in a couple of days, so I am trying to get all of my stuff ironed out so that my dad and I can bundle it all in one order. Also, thank you for being so amazingly prompt to answer my questions, though I haven't been as prompt as I wish I could be in answering yours. Thank you again!
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#11 Lunas

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 03:16 AM

To clear up confusion, Yes I am intending to brass the Rayven, and I probably will not brass the interior of the barrel extension, as it will just be there to under-mount my other project, an inline shotgunned triad with a larger piston for more range. My question was actually whether there was a grease or lubricant I can use to reduce friction in the barrel, so as to not slow down the dart as much? I'm not going for something that can be used to eat shit from 1000 feet away, but I like to hedge my bets on the powerful side so I can have to tune it down, instead of put more money into it to up tune it a second time. For the batteries, does 2s versus 3s make a difference? I know(I think) that the more mAH a batter has, the longer it will last, but what difference do the amount of cells make, if any? we are ordering motors and batteries in a couple of days, so I am trying to get all of my stuff ironed out so that my dad and I can bundle it all in one order. Also, thank you for being so amazingly prompt to answer my questions, though I haven't been as prompt as I wish I could be in answering yours. Thank you again!

With flywheels brassing is nearly pointless mostly a cosmetic thing the make or break for flywheels is the power supply, motors and flywheels. The rayven has some great wheels to mod look up lightening them and it will show you how to cut material from them to make them lighter and spin up better. For grip plasti dip or i have been toying with the idea of lightly sanding my flywheels to give them a rougher surface thus adding grip. The motors higher rpm means faster flywheels for faster darts too fast flywheels melt off the shafts or just melt the darts. If this is happening turn down the rpms/voltage or add grip to flywheels some how either by using stiffer foam for less collapse i like the straw method to make my darts stiffer. Or by coating the flywheels in something or even small holes but i wanted to avoid that as it tears up darts a bit faster or comes off overtime. It should be mentioned coating the flywheels in plasti dip will slightly increase mass outward. And nerf xd version blasters with flywheels have a cage with the wheels closer together for more crush and grip.

2s vs 3s is 7.2-8.4v vs 11.1-14.4v extra cell is more voltage need to be careful about what the motors can handle. You will want to start with 2s on the stock motors any more than that shortens the life.

It is very tricky as you hit about 110 fps the darts become the limiting factor more so than the gun firing them and you can make flywheel blasters hit that mark by simply replacing the power supply. A 2s lipo at 7.4 is enough to get you up there and you can make other improvements to get a few more fps or feet by pushing the rpm up more and more coat the flywheels and lighten them and bump the voltage up more then the motors give out replace them with motors that can run even faster at higher voltage. And the gains are just hampered by darts that fly off mark so consistently you end up with 30 to 50ft of useful accuracy where a slower flywheel can do up to 100ft with acceptable accuracy.

So my advise is baby steps your just now getting into tuning the flywheel blasters put the rc connector in and rewire it with good wires 16 Gauge Silicone Wire the rayven can be turned into a really simple circuit just the battery and the momentary switch btw the one in the stock blaster is only rated to about .5A you can pass more but it will eventually burn replacing the switch is advised pick out a momentary that can handle more 15A seem sufficient. While your in there you can toss some connectors to disconnect the motors and replace them later when you burn out the stock motors.

Edited by Lunas, 30 November 2014 - 02:50 AM.

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