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OOTWW

Out of the way Wye

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#1 jackrabbit

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 05:04 PM

The OOTWW, or Out of the way Wye is a new and easy way to fix most Wye problems, like blocking view and being hard to reload on the run.

Edit: First Writeup

Materials:
*Basic Wye setup
*PVC conduit 45 degree pipe section
*Something to seal the PVC conduit (1/2 PVC end cap, 3/4 CPVC ball valve, or Etc.)

Setup:
Posted Image
Not Final Product Just Layout Of Parts!

All parts needed in photo above!

Posted Image

What it should look like, the camera angle makes it hard tell how the PVC conduit it bent...

Specs:

+Works like a hopper, you don't have to tilt it down like a RSCB.
+Works with slugs and domes.
+Stealthy and sleek.
+Not hard to straighten like a RSCB.
+Rarely jams like a hopper, again only with bad darts.
+Very easy to reload, If you have two hands, I didn't in the video as I was holding the camera.

-Ranges decrease as darts leave the PVC conduit and out the barrel, like all hoppers and RSCBs, this is just an assumption due to trends.
-PVC conduit isn't clear, but most nerfers don't use clear PVC.

Overview, Firing test, and Assembly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHHaWG4Ojwc&feature=plcp

Thanks,
JR

Edited by jackrabbit, 23 June 2012 - 05:27 PM.

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#2 Bchamp22795

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 06:29 PM

I like this. Not only does it work, but it would probably reduce double feeding. I'm not sure, but since the darts almost "slide" into the barrel since their orientation at entry is more horizontal, would this affect using brithopp type barrels? The slide that leads to the barrel would still face towards the clip opening of the hopper, but I feel like gravity may not help the dart move along the slide, and the bithop would actually get in the way. On the same note, since the dart comes in a bit slower because of the bend and the angle of entry, would the dart not seat itself within the barrel as well causing the dart to need more air to be used on getting it to the barrel? I'm probably being picky because the difference may be negligible, but I was just curious.
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#3 jackrabbit

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 06:53 PM

I like this. Not only does it work, but it would probably reduce double feeding. I'm not sure, but since the darts almost "slide" into the barrel since their orientation at entry is more horizontal, would this affect using brithopp type barrels? The slide that leads to the barrel would still face towards the clip opening of the hopper, but I feel like gravity may not help the dart move along the slide, and the bithop would actually get in the way. On the same note, since the dart comes in a bit slower because of the bend and the angle of entry, would the dart not seat itself within the barrel as well causing the dart to need more air to be used on getting it to the barrel? I'm probably being picky because the difference may be negligible, but I was just curious.



I assume that a brithopp barrel would effect ranges because of the lip on the small flap, also double feeding is not really a problem, after 100 shots I have not had one double feeding issue unless the glue dome was deformed. The wye isn't completely horizontal (as you mentioned) so gravity, and the pressure from the dart weight achieved by the 45 degree PVC conduit pushs the other darts forward and close enough to the barrel that the air lost is comparable to a hopper, also 10% of the time the last dart won't feed, but a little shake will help guide the dart.

Edited by jackrabbit, 23 June 2012 - 06:57 PM.

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#4 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 06:53 PM

That video was exhausting to watch.
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#5 jackrabbit

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:00 PM

That video was exhausting to watch.


I agree, I am not used to using cameras or video recorders but I feel that it did get the point across further explain the OOTWW.

Edited by jackrabbit, 23 June 2012 - 07:03 PM.

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#6 Bchamp22795

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:10 PM

also double feeding is not really a problem, after 100 shots I have not had one double feeding issue unless the glue dome was deformed.


I realize this...That is why I said that your OOTWW will reduce double feeding.

I do really like this setup, but I probably won't end up using it. I do think it is a step in the right direction for hoppers, as it improves a lot of things. I just think that it is much easier to just get a length of PVC that is sitting around, rather than going out and getting a bunch of 45 degree sweeps (similar reason I only own one chopper). Also, I prefer to never need to shake my blaster, even if it isn't often. Just my two cents. I'll think about this design as it may be easily fixable.
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#7 jackrabbit

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:37 PM

I realize this...That is why I said that your OOTWW will reduce double feeding.

I do really like this setup, but I probably won't end up using it. I do think it is a step in the right direction for hoppers, as it improves a lot of things. I just think that it is much easier to just get a length of PVC that is sitting around, rather than going out and getting a bunch of 45 degree sweeps (similar reason I only own one chopper). Also, I prefer to never need to shake my blaster, even if it isn't often. Just my two cents. I'll think about this design as it may be easily fixable.


The 45 degree PVC conduit sections are cheap at $1 per. By the way when I mentioned shaking it I meant 10% of all last shots so with the 7 shots the last one will fire 90% of the time with my crap darts, but hoppers have misfiring problems also and probably only fire 90% of the time with all the darts, with the OOTWW you don't need to dissect it to get darts to fire you simply shake it, you don't need to shake it vigorously either its just a quick shake side to side, up and down, and even back and forth works.
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#8 jackrabbit

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:37 PM

Edit: Server 500 Error

Tomorrowow I will make a video to explain and show how the OOTWW feeds.

Edited by jackrabbit, 23 June 2012 - 07:41 PM.

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#9 hamoidar

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 07:53 PM

Okay, I get that this thing works, but how is it any better than a hopper? You say it has about the same ~10% jam rate as a traditional hopper, that jams are easy to clear, how is this better? One big drawback I see this wye set-up having is the length of the hopper tube is pretty much confined to that of the 45 degree conduit. Meaning that you can only fit about 6 darts. I use a hopper that holds 13, 1.5in darts, so I can see the length being a big problem for a lot of folks.
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#10 jackrabbit

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:21 PM

Okay, I get that this thing works, but how is it any better than a hopper? You say it has about the same ~10% jam rate as a traditional hopper, that jams are easy to clear, how is this better? One big drawback I see this wye set-up having is the length of the hopper tube is pretty much confined to that of the 45 degree conduit. Meaning that you can only fit about 6 darts. I use a hopper that holds 13, 1.5in darts, so I can see the length being a big problem for a lot of folks.


You can use a PVC coupler, drill out the ring, or keep it and connect your extra 1/2 PVC to the 1/2 PVC conduit, its quite simple really.
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#11 Bchamp22795

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 10:34 PM

I think we must agree to disagree. I have less than 1% misfeed in hoppers. Rarely do I have jamming issues. I have decided that a chopper with the wye at an angle is the best. Reloading can be remedied with a ball valve. Also, $1 per is pretty expensive considering PVC is 20-40 cents a foot.
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#12 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 11:13 PM

Please avoid derailing this into an anecdotal competition of who can produce more statistically unsupported claims.

However, a video of 3 darts firing and 1 dart jamming due to "being a bad dart" is a pretty uninspiring place to begin. An improved hopper system designed to alleviate whatever current flaws exist should at least shoot any dart well, otherwise I see little improvement at all.
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#13 DX-Robert

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:40 AM

I also have to ask how this is actually an improvement over a conventional hopper. I see what it intends to improve upon, but takes arguably unnecessary effort to get there, while not actually solving one of the root problems with hoppers.

If the hopper is in the way, angle it. If the blaster uses a pump sheath, cut the opening for the hopper at an angle. Or, just angle the gun when you fire it. Using clear PVC also helps there, it's surprisingly out of the way even with a hopper angled straight up. If you're not using clear, you're also either wasting effort keeping track of shots remaining, or are good enough to judge based on sound. It's not the greatest idea to use opaque PVC unless you really know what you're doing.

I agree with Bchamp22795 in that the conventional hopper misfeed/double feed rate, above a certain temperature threshold, is less than 1%. It can be 0 in some wars. If you stand still in one place and empty your hopper, taking the time to aim, again above a certain temperature, with quality darts, it will not misfeed. You might be able to take hundreds of shots without one, have done it at a few NJNOs before, 2 whole wars with 0 misfeeds or double feeds. However, not every dart is going to be perfect and sometimes you have to empty your hopper rapidly. Rapidly firing and not letting a dart seat itself contributes to more misfeeds than anything else I've seen. Or, if you're like me, you tend to shoot while in motion / moving the barrel around to target multiple people, and that can unseat the next dart, causing a misfeed. A 10% chance of misfeeding the last dart is too high. That last dart tends to be rather important, especially when you're being pressed and don't have a chance to reload. You want to know that dart will fire.

So basically, this conduit solution doesn't do much about the user, and how the user shoots the blaster affects misfeeds far more than the material itself. It seems like a single stick of PVC and a cap/valve produces the best results for the least amount of effort. I'm just not seeing the benefit with a conduit.
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#14 jackrabbit

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:08 AM

Please avoid derailing this into an anecdotal competition of who can produce more statistically unsupported claims.

However, a video of 3 darts firing and 1 dart jamming due to "being a bad dart" is a pretty uninspiring place to begin. An improved hopper system designed to alleviate whatever current flaws exist should at least shoot any dart well, otherwise I see little improvement at all.


I made the darts on the fly and it had a lip of hot glue of the edge.



I also have to ask how this is actually an improvement over a conventional hopper. I see what it intends to improve upon, but takes arguably unnecessary effort to get there, while not actually solving one of the root problems with hoppers.

If the hopper is in the way, angle it. If the blaster uses a pump sheath, cut the opening for the hopper at an angle. Or, just angle the gun when you fire it. Using clear PVC also helps there, it's surprisingly out of the way even with a hopper angled straight up. If you're not using clear, you're also either wasting effort keeping track of shots remaining, or are good enough to judge based on sound. It's not the greatest idea to use opaque PVC unless you really know what you're doing.

I agree with Bchamp22795 in that the conventional hopper misfeed/double feed rate, above a certain temperature threshold, is less than 1%. It can be 0 in some wars. If you stand still in one place and empty your hopper, taking the time to aim, again above a certain temperature, with quality darts, it will not misfeed. You might be able to take hundreds of shots without one, have done it at a few NJNOs before, 2 whole wars with 0 misfeeds or double feeds. However, not every dart is going to be perfect and sometimes you have to empty your hopper rapidly. Rapidly firing and not letting a dart seat itself contributes to more misfeeds than anything else I've seen. Or, if you're like me, you tend to shoot while in motion / moving the barrel around to target multiple people, and that can unseat the next dart, causing a misfeed. A 10% chance of misfeeding the last dart is too high. That last dart tends to be rather important, especially when you're being pressed and don't have a chance to reload. You want to know that dart will fire.

So basically, this conduit solution doesn't do much about the user, and how the user shoots the blaster affects misfeeds far more than the material itself. It seems like a single stick of PVC and a cap/valve produces the best results for the least amount of effort. I'm just not seeing the benefit with a conduit.


The OOTWW is easy to reload, angling your hopper only makes reloading take longer, also I have a solution to the last dart brewing.
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#15 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:40 AM

angling your hopper only makes reloading take longer


No, it doesn't.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 24 June 2012 - 01:00 PM.

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#16 jackrabbit

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 11:36 AM

No, it doesn't.


At the angle of the OOTWW it would be quite hard...
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#17 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:32 PM

At the angle of the OOTWW it would be quite hard...


We're talking about why this already isn't a problem with a straight clip and angled wye. Of course angling the wye on the contrived solution would worsen it.
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#18 jackrabbit

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:01 PM

We're talking about why this already isn't a problem with a straight clip and angled wye. Of course angling the wye on the contrived solution would worsen it.


Yeah, I understand, again I didn't think everyone would switch over to a OOTWW, just a few here and there that feel the perks of the OOTWW outweigh those of a standard hopper.
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#19 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:37 PM

Yeah, I understand, again I didn't think everyone would switch over to a OOTWW, just a few here and there that feel the perks of the OOTWW outweigh those of a standard hopper.

Fair enough. If it proves useful, people will use it. If not, it will go extinct. Nerf technology is Darwinian like that.
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#20 Langley

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:12 AM

Fair enough. If it proves useful, people will use it. If not, it will go extinct. Nerf technology is Darwinian like that.


So the SNAP carbine is what? A duck billed platypus?

Personally I like having the end of my hopper angled towards me. With this configuration it seems as though I would have to angle my blaster upward to reload the hopper, rather than angling it slightly downward, which would presumably make it so that gravity is working against me as the bend curves upwards away from me. I can't tell from the video you posted though, because it looks like a low-budget found footage horror movie. I guess it might make the newer 'bullpup' style blasters less awkward in the hopper area.
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#21 jackrabbit

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:09 PM

So the SNAP carbine is what? A duck billed platypus?

Personally I like having the end of my hopper angled towards me. With this configuration it seems as though I would have to angle my blaster upward to reload the hopper, rather than angling it slightly downward, which would presumably make it so that gravity is working against me as the bend curves upwards away from me. I can't tell from the video you posted though, because it looks like a low-budget found footage horror movie. I guess it might make the newer 'bullpup' style blasters less awkward in the hopper area.


I could see the OOTWW on a bullpup, because the barrel setup is so far back a hopper might be awkward.
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#22 taerKitty

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:57 PM

I'm actually going to do this with my 4BullPup-1A and tie my team's flagging ribbon to the hopper. If I was a member of a Nerf clan, I'd silkscreen our flag and put that on it.
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#23 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 03:44 PM

So the SNAP carbine is what? A duck billed platypus?

I will fucking naturally select that thing to death.
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