Jump to content


Photo

Mega-Draw-Extended TTG (M-DET)

87% more cowbell

14 replies to this topic

#1 taerKitty

taerKitty

    Member

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Location:98052
  • State:Washington
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:27 AM

To start with, this is what we'll be building:

Posted Image


A draw-extended TTG (Tech Target Gun). How much draw does it have?

Posted Image


3.5". In contrast, a stock TTG has 1-7/8" (1.875"). That's an 87% increase in volume!!!

For the TL;DR crowd, here's the internals:

Posted Image


Basically, the rear PT flange is mounted where the front PT flange used to go. There, go forth and mod, ye TL;DRs!

===

Materials:

- 1-5/8" of 1" PVC

- 1/2" CPVC coupler, cut in two OR 1/2" CPVC cap drilled out

- 1/2" PVC coupler OR 1/2" of 3/4" PVC

- E-tape

- 4-1/2" of [k26]

===

Tools:

- Hacksaw

- Rubber mallet

- Pliers

- File

- (Optional, but recommended) calipers, or at least a ruler

- (Optional, but recommended) boltcutters

- (Optional, but recommended) scissors

===

Unfortunately, this isn't an as-you-go writeup. I built it out of desperation, and found it to be amazingly effective, so I wanted to share the steps. However, I didn't take pictures as I went, so all I can do is describe what to do and show the end results.

First a bit of background - my amped-up TTGs don't have padded plunger heads, and do break the plunger tube (PT) face off the rest of the PT. Most of the time, that can be fixed with a bit of epoxy. In this case, the PT face shattered, so I had to devise something else.

This is the something else: a universal coupler as the PT face. A "universal coupler" is one that will take either 1/2" CPVC or 1/2" PVC. Pedants among you will point out it won't take mongo and above darts. Yeah, waddeah. STFU&FOAD, already. :)

Here's a "business end" shot to show what I mean:

Posted Image


In this case, I already had a universal coupler lying around, so it seemed like a good way to use it. You can substitute a chunk of 3/4" PVC, with the requisite elbow grease and percussive persuasion, in place of the 1/2" PVC coupler.

Even using a 1/2" PVC coupler, you will need to add some sweat and mallet-work. I reamed out the inner edge of the 1" PVC so it had a slight bevel, then sanded the end of the 1/2" PVC coupler containing the 1/2" CPVC coupler down so it somewhat fit, then applied momentum in the form of the rubber mallet.

Posted Image


As you can see, the front end of the 1" PVC is slightly flared from the force-feeding.

Posted Image


===

Enough about the ©PVC-y bits. Let's talk PT.

Posted Image


Two take-aways in this pic. First is the e-tape. That's all that's holding the 1" PVC to the PT. There's a wrap or two more of e-tape than is sufficient to meet the coupler's ID, so a rubber mallet is required to join the two.

The second is the flattened flange. Because of the way the shell is designed, the groove for the PT front flange is shallower on the sides than the one for the PT rear flange, so some adjustments are needed. File down both sides of the PT rear flange, but leave the top and bottom in place.

===

Now, the shell.

Posted Image


The rear is cut down to the rear bulkhead for the catch. The front is chopped down to the 1" PVC needs to protrude. For me 5-5/8" from the cut-down bulkhead is a workable length, but it may be better to just lay the modified PT on with the rear flange in the front groove and eyeball it.

===

Lastly, the plunger.

Posted Image


As you can see, I'm using 4-1/2" of [k26]. Boltcutters are highly recommended for cutting down the spring. Please note this is too short for the spring to fully push the plunger head (PH) to the PT face. In other words, when unprimed, the spring will rattle and slide along the plunger rod (PR) a bit. However, this is the maximum length for the catch to work, and it only barely does.

The spring rest (black part on the left of the PR above) has been cut down, again to give the spring maximum compressed distance.

The catch spring is stock, though the bottom has been crimped with the pliers slightly to keep it from sproinging free when the blaster is opened. I've not had a problem with it prematurely firing - my catch difficulties are just with the catch sometimes failing to engage.

The PH end of the spring is likewise crimped. This is so it doesn't try to work it's way under the O-ring.

Finally, there's a wrap or two of e-tape under the O-ring.

The screw securing the PH to the PR has been replaced with something longer and wider. (All together now, "TWSS." Okay, done.)

===

Miscellany:

- Ranges. Yeah, we haz'em.

Out of 10 test shots out of a 5" long CPVC barrel, I got results ranging from 69' to 114', with an average of 105'.

114'
108'
105' * 4
96'
87' * 2
78'
69'

Mind you, the TTG seems to fire high no matter what I do (short of aiming low, which isn't really realistic when using this on the field). I'd decrease ranges by 10% if we want to talk level flight, at least in theory.

- Build time. I'd say 2 hours, going slow.

- Bungees. As much as I love fuglifying my blasters with bungees, I wouldn't advise it. In a stock TTG, the rear chunk of the shell has a channel to keep the PR straight-ish. With this mod, that's gone, so the PR will apply any torque directly to the rear catch bulkhead. Couple that with the shape of the handle, and the bungee will ride up, guaranteeing torque.

- Complexity. I'd rank this fairly low. The hardest part would be getting the [k26]. I figure any modder who has access to K26s has already done the de riguer NF/Jolts, and this will be nothing new.

- Universal coupler. No, it's not a required part of this build. I had one lying around, and I needed to mount the half-CPVC coupler in something to nest it in the 1" PVC. My next instance of this will use the drilled out 1/2" CPVC cap and a chunk of 3/4" PVC.

OTOH, just for shits-n-grins, I tossed a 6-shot Spears-wye hopper on this, and it fired. I didn't have a chance to range-test it, but it launched a dart. Out of a TTG!

Questions/comments/flames?

Edited by taerKitty, 14 December 2011 - 12:24 PM.

  • 0
Fugly is a feature.

#2 arfink

arfink

    Member

  • Members
  • 246 posts
  • Location:Columbia Heights MN
  • State:Minnesota
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:20 AM

Your pics are borken.
  • 0
A2GS + 4 meg RAM + 128 meg CF + 9600 Baud Lantronix = WIN

#3 cmeej

cmeej

    Member

  • Members
  • 107 posts
  • Location:Near Portland
  • State:Oregon
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:40 AM

Your pictures are broken.


They work fine for me. Thank you so much Taer. The Tech Target has always been my blaster, and I was scheming on ways to completely overhaul them, making them ridiculous.

This is a huuuuuge step in the right direction. Those ranges are phenomenal.

Tech Targets, the new sexy sidearm.
  • 0
Qualified Ginger
Deal affectionado and photo nazi.
"If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Albert Einstein

#4 Swiftone1990

Swiftone1990

    Member

  • Members
  • 40 posts
  • State:Missouri
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:47 AM

TTGs just feel better. This is awesome. Have you tried using any PVC barrel on it yet?
  • 0
I am not retreating, I am advancing in a different direction

#5 lionhawk

lionhawk

    Member

  • Members
  • 218 posts
  • Location:Fairfax, VA
  • State:Virginia
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:49 AM

@cmeej

I`m pretty sure if you have a gun ranging up to 114`, you won`t use it much as a sidearm, but whatever.

Taer, this mod is very nice, and I would definitely try it out.

Edited by lionhawk, 14 December 2011 - 11:49 AM.

  • 0

#6 hamoidar

hamoidar

    Member

  • Members
  • 367 posts
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:23 PM

Great mod! Those ranges are amazing. I wish I hadn't ruined my tech with bungees. LoL :D
  • 0
NerfHaven > Your control panel > Profile > Change Signature > Inserts dumb sig > What! No pictures! > Inserts next best thing: http://nerfhaven.com...howuser=114052' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Best thing on Nerfhaven!

#7 taerKitty

taerKitty

    Member

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Location:98052
  • State:Washington
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:40 PM

Your pics are borken.

I'm using FB to host them. OT, but I much prefer FB using GUIDs (pseudo-random unique strings) for picture URLs instead of PB using the actual filestructure. PB's way means that whenever I try to re-organize my folders, I break all the links. I can move pics in FB albums w/o worrying about that.

You're probably viewing them behind a school web proxy which blocks FB. Try hitting it from home.

The Tech Target has always been my blaster, and I was scheming on ways to completely overhaul them, making them ridiculous.

This is a huuuuuge step in the right direction. Those ranges are phenomenal.

Tech Targets, the new sexy sidearm.

I actually dislike the ergonomics - the handle is the same profile as the NF, but it's so narrow it feels like I'm holding a single-width piece of plywood. And they shoot high, which makes reporting ranges rather risky. All my shots are aimed dead level, but all of them arc. MBW says he has a ton of TTGs and they all do that, so it may be just part of the design.

Yeah, the ranges are incredible. I had a shattered PT face so I didn't want to junk the blaster, and I couldn't use it as an organ donor for the handle, see above.

They holster much better than NFs, too.

TTGs just feel better. This is awesome. Have you tried using any PVC barrel on it yet?

I did. I actually tossed a Spears-wye hopper on it, and it fired. Yesterday. Today, I tried it again, and no dice. As such, I'm going to say it was a fluke.

I`m pretty sure if you have a gun ranging up to 114`, you won`t use it much as a sidearm, but whatever.

RoF sucks on it - the catch is a little fiddly. Next time I open the V1, I'm going to snip a bit more off the [k26] so it catches more reliably. Note - the catch spring isn't the issue here - it's how far I have to pull the PR back for it to catch. In most blasters, there's still a smidge more PR you can pull. In this one, when you pull it back all the way, and then grunt, it will catch.

'Sides, Dayko caps pistols at 60' for our pistol rounds. This thing will be a holdout shot for our 'longarm' rounds.

Great mod! Those ranges are amazing. I wish I hadn't ruined my tech with bungees. LoL :D

How'd you break it? There may be a way to reanimate it...

===

Edit 2011-12-14 (Yeah, I just posted. Deal.)

Posted Image


Built out V1.1 in 40 minutes. No universal coupler here. It's just a 1/2" CPVC cap pounded into 3/4" PVC pounded into 1" PVC, kinda like how you'd make a turducken.

Posted Image


The CPVC cap is (of course) drilled out. This gives me a free dart stop, so I don't have to worry about vacc-loading the dart into the PT.

Edited by taerKitty, 14 December 2011 - 01:03 PM.

  • 0
Fugly is a feature.

#8 Daniel Beaver

Daniel Beaver

    HQRSE CQCK

  • Moderators
  • 2,066 posts
  • NerfHaven Subscription Supporter
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • State:Minnesota
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

I actually dislike the ergonomics - the handle is the same profile as the NF, but it's so narrow it feels like I'm holding a single-width piece of plywood.

I'm glad someone else shares my sentiments. They're so much sleeker than nitefinders, but I can't stand the handles.


RoF sucks on it - the catch is a little fiddly. Next time I open the V1, I'm going to snip a bit more off the [k26] so it catches more reliably. Note - the catch spring isn't the issue here - it's how far I have to pull the PR back for it to catch. In most blasters, there's still a smidge more PR you can pull. In this one, when you pull it back all the way, and then grunt, it will catch.


I still worry about the catch spring. A nice strong one makes it feel so much nicer.
  • 0

#9 Swiftone1990

Swiftone1990

    Member

  • Members
  • 40 posts
  • State:Missouri
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 01:48 PM

Mine serves as a back up, usually holding it against a primary, so the smaller handle served me well. (HVZ, so it was easier to track two zed.) Does it have any issues firing from sharp bumps?
  • 0
I am not retreating, I am advancing in a different direction

#10 hamoidar

hamoidar

    Member

  • Members
  • 367 posts
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:02 PM


How'd you break it? There may be a way to reanimate it...

The plunger rod snapped, and I didn't feel like repairing it, so I put its spring in my stampede. Now I'm kicking myself for not fixing it. :angry:
  • 0
NerfHaven > Your control panel > Profile > Change Signature > Inserts dumb sig > What! No pictures! > Inserts next best thing: http://nerfhaven.com...howuser=114052' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Best thing on Nerfhaven!

#11 taerKitty

taerKitty

    Member

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Location:98052
  • State:Washington
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:04 PM

I still worry about the catch spring. A nice strong one makes it feel so much nicer.

Does it have any issues firing from sharp bumps?


The V1.0 does fire when dropped from waist-height. I'll definitely need to chop off a coil of spring. The V1.1 does not.

The plunger rod snapped, and I didn't feel like repairing it, so I put its spring in my stampede.


It lives on, so that's good. Yeah, a broken PR these days is nothing critical, just another McM order.


===

Not really worth a new thread, so I give you ... the EDEN - Extremely Draw-Extended Nitefinder. Same general principle as the M-DET.

Posted Image


~2.875" draw vs stock ~1.875". ~53% improvement, so not a 'Mega' like the 87% that the M-DET gets.

Posted Image


1/2" CPVC caps fit perfectly in the 'triad ring' that forms the back for the AR. Perfect seal, too.

3.5" barrel gives a satisfying 'pop' and about 95' flat-and-level. Maybe a longer barrel will help. I'm not going to say 95' is the range - I'd prefer to fire a dozen rounds or so and see.

Fugly bolt is fugly, but needed because the draw-extension cuts out the screws to hold the catch in place.

Chunks of split 1" PVC are solvent welded to the PT to hold it in place.

===

BTW, draw-extended pistols are stone-age old. This is nothing all that new in basic design, though I don't recall seeing a draw-extended TTG that used the flanges and flange grooves this way. With this, I'm getting phenomenal ranges out of my TTG and wanted to share a writeup in hopes others will benefit.
  • 0
Fugly is a feature.

#12 Daniel Beaver

Daniel Beaver

    HQRSE CQCK

  • Moderators
  • 2,066 posts
  • NerfHaven Subscription Supporter
  • Location:Minneapolis
  • State:Minnesota
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:44 PM

3.5" barrel gives a satisfying 'pop' and about 95' flat-and-level. Maybe a longer barrel will help. I'm not going to say 95' is the range - I'd prefer to fire a dozen rounds or so and see.


It most certainly will! I used a 6" barrel on mine.
  • 0

#13 taerKitty

taerKitty

    Member

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Location:98052
  • State:Washington
  • Country:United States

Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:15 PM

Yep, used a 6-way speedloader of 5" CPVC and got over 100'. Then the catch notch on the PR wore away. I have some epoxy and a metal plate on it to try to fix it.
  • 0
Fugly is a feature.

#14 cmeej

cmeej

    Member

  • Members
  • 107 posts
  • Location:Near Portland
  • State:Oregon
  • Country:United States

Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:42 AM

I`m pretty sure if you have a gun ranging up to 114`, you won`t use it much as a sidearm, but whatever.


I'm a mean person.

Just kidding, it would make a great back up for a primary with a high rate of fire, but lacks the century level ranges (think stampede or fabled rayven)

Just a thought.

Lord knows Taer will be putting Hoppers on these eventually.
  • 0
Qualified Ginger
Deal affectionado and photo nazi.
"If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it" -Albert Einstein

#15 taerKitty

taerKitty

    Member

  • Members
  • 883 posts
  • Location:98052
  • State:Washington
  • Country:United States

Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:52 AM

Lord knows Taer will be putting Hoppers on these eventually.

I tried. I had it working yesterday, but utterly failed today. I'm going to call yesterday a fluke and not pursue it further. Besides, V1.1 no longer uses universal couplers.
  • 0
Fugly is a feature.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users