22 replies to this topic

[Dyxlesic]

THANKS TO THESE USERS WHO MADE THIS MOD POSIBLE
CHEESYPIZZA001
DOOM
BOOT
KIDFLASH

Most of my posts on nerfhaven have been total crap and questions. Today, i will actually benefit something to the community. I will add to the writeup as time goes on, and i remember what else i should add. in the mean time, enjoy
SOOOOOO this is my first REAL writeup...

Cheesy thought of it, kidflash built it, but i perfected it.
I have always used my NF as my primary, as it was the only gun i really liked. I wanted a primary, but i couldent really find one that fit my needs, wants, and likes. So i decided to come up with a list of things i would not go without on my primary
1.Decent Ranges: it doesnt matter how fast you can fire or reload, if you cant hit anyone at a decent range, you dont stand a chance.
2. All darts: We dont use stefans, because we have people sensative to pain, and little kids in our wars. we have tons of darts in all different types. i am not limiting myself to just one type of dart, because that leaves me at a huge disadvantage
3. compact/light: Im a runner, i rush, im on recon. whatever you wanna call it, i do most the running on my team. I cant cary around a vulcan or longshot with a raider drumb, as it counters my style of play
4. ROF/Reload time: i needed something where i can fire at a decent rate, but also need to be able to reload quickly
5: Comfort: Im wanted a comfortable shell, like the firefly, longshot, or NF. Not like a AT3K, Deploy, or SM3K.
6: Low upcost: no CO2, no batteries, air compressors, or anything i would have pay to replace the power source. Just pure manpower

in addition, i thought of things i would like on a DREAM PRIMARY
7. Semi auto: perfect right?
8: Swappable clips: quick reload in a pinch
9: built in secondary: just in case things go bad
10: efficency: i want it to be where i have to spend more time priming than playing

I dropped the ball a few months ago with this plan

it was good, but i was a little ignorant of pnumatic air systems, and blew up a few salvo tanks. TOTALLY 100% MY FAULT
After some hard thinking and testing, i finally bought the parts i needed. I will list them here later. More testing and failure, until i finally got it to work. Here is the inside:

wow. looks alot like the drawing doesnt it
I will go more in depth on using a 3 way valve and a backpressure a little later if anyone is interested. Im gonna just cover most the stuff specific to this mod first




FIrst, you wanna make room for the air tank
THIS CUT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON BOTH HALFS OF THE SHELL
Before:

After:


then you wanna make room for the salvo tank by making a cut like this:
NOTE THIS CUT ONLY NEEDS TO BE CUT ON ONE SIDE
Before:

After:

you can cover that hole with plexiglass if you want

So your pumps gonna go in the bottom support bar. make way for it to come out. make this cut on both sides
Before:

After:


Your pump is gonna go here, so remove all the screws in its way like this


For the airtank i used 2" PVC pipe with 2 caps. I used the shell of a super soaker to make it look more streamlined. Glue it to the bottom half of the shell with hot glue


I did the removable turret mod. if you havent seen it before i cut this
before:

After:


and this

and shortened the rod on the front thinga-majiggy and placed it like this so it can flip up and down like this


unscrew everything from the turret and screw just this part back into the rotator thingy. keep everything clear unscrewed and throw away everything shiny (if you ditched the flash like i did)

dont screw the clear part into the white part. the clear part will serve as your clip and its held in by friction and stabolized by the front orange thingy

I made a modification to the pump to make it more compact. cut, and epoxy

drill and tap your desired barb into the bottom side of your airtank too

cut the seal off the front of your plunger tube. align and glue it to your salvo tank.

and glue your salvo tank to the inside of the shell like so

i glued it to my built-in ARSCB for support. it is not necessary, but i like it

here is a picture of the hose setup:

im gonna summarize it for you people scratching your heads. the tank has only one barb, that barb then splits off into 3 directions.
1:to the pump
2:to the magstrike valve->ARSCB
3:Regulator->semi auto valve->salvo tank

if you dont know what an ARSCB is, go look up my writeup on it. the regulator makes each salvo shot efficient and consistent. The ARSCB is triggered by the magstrike valve and fires 4 darts/8 stephans in full auto. The Gun is semi auto, compact, consistant, swappable drumbs, comfortable, incredible ranges, has a built in automatic secondary, holds alot of shots, and works with all darts. it accomplishes everything on my list.

I am getting really sick of typing this writeup right now. Im gonna post this for you guys to take in, see what you guys think, add alot more later tonight. feel free to ask whatever you want, and say whatever.

Edited by Dyxlesic, 07 August 2011 - 05:32 PM.

[Dyxlesic]

RESERVED FOR MORE INFO

[VelveetaAvenger]

How many shots do you get on a full tank?

[Dyxlesic]

Depends. I haven't fully filled the tank yet as it is huge. But here's a little trend I've gone with. If you pump it 50 times, and fire 8 shots, you will be left with about 35 pumps left in the tank. The tank is over the pressure regulator at about 25 pumps. I would guess the tank would be full at 65-75 pumps. At ~3 pumps per shot, I'm estimating 16 before the shots start decreasing in pressure. But that's just a rough guess

[CuppaSteve]

That's intense. Could you could hypothetically spend about a minute before the round pumping and not have to pump again the whole round if you're conservative with your shots (and there aren't any leaks)?

Also, since you were focused on keeping the system light- how much does it actually weigh?

[Dyxlesic]

That's intense. Could you could hypothetically spend about a minute before the round pumping and not have to pump again the whole round if you're conservative with your shots (and there aren't any leaks)?

Also, since you were focused on keeping the system light- how much does it actually weigh?

Yep. You could. And with the swappable drumb, you wouldn't have to reload much either. After those shots, you can still fire, but it won't give you better than super longshot ranges like it does full power. It weighs about as much as a STOCK LONGSHOT without a mag, and the weight is completely balanced, and it's really comfortable. It has one tiny leak in one of those hose connections, but it has been located and the epoxy is drying as we speak.

Edited by Dyxlesic, 07 August 2011 - 07:19 PM.

[Boot]

Very nice! I especially like the ARSCB. It is very cleanly integrated into the system.

I may have to start experimenting with hard tanks with regulators again, you seem to be getting equivalent, or even better performance (in terms of capacity) than an equally sized bladder, and with the regulator it would be easy to adjust performance for either better shot capacity or ranges! (I think a slight improvement could be to allow access to the regulator without opening the shell, however I'm not sure if that is possible with your regulator, or if war hosts would feel safe with that feature).

I have a few questions though. First, do you plan to lengthen the barrels? Although that may interfere with the swappable turrets it would probably boost ranges (I have found that singled salvo tanks seem to operate best with around a footlong barrel depending on barrel material).

Also, what is the ROF like? In some cases I found that barbed connectors restricted airflow, and the salvo tanks wouldn't fill all the way if you tried to shoot too fast. This may not be a problem for you due to your barrel length, and would be easy to solve simply by using larger diameter tubing.

Finally, I've never actually been able to get my hands on off the shelf three way valves. How quickly does the one you are using vent?

Anyways great job! Very well executed.

[Exo]

1. "a few BS tanks" If I destroyed a few anything, I'd've stopped way befor you did.
2. Sure took you a while. I know that I hate long projects.
3. What are the ranges like, with both guns?
4. If you made a HUGE diameter homemade pump and replaced the old one, I think pumping wouldn't be some much of a challenge. I'd use 1 1/2" to 2" pvc, then use Venom's plunger head design. I integrated that onto a SNAP, and it had an almost perfect seal with a little teflon tape on it. The entire gun was retired because the trigger didn't work.

[Y-Brik]

4. If you made a HUGE diameter homemade pump and replaced the old one, I think pumping wouldn't be some much of a challenge. I'd use 1 1/2" to 2" pvc, then use Venom's plunger head design. I integrated that onto a SNAP, and it had an almost perfect seal with a little teflon tape on it. The entire gun was retired because the trigger didn't work.

Have fun bringing such a large diameter pump up to pressure- remember pressure is measured in pounds per square inch- to work a greater diamerter pump up to the same PSI you need to pump MUCH harder. That said, a Schraeder valve on the hard tank and an upright bike pump in the staging area may be worth exploring.

[SlightlySane813]

Nice job, I would love to see this in a real life scenario. I was wondering though what are you using to fire the big salvo tank?

[pjotrkuh]

So I must ask...did you use your sister's hamster to make those cuts?

On a more serious note, why did you ditch the original seal between the firefly's plungertube and the drum, I personaly think it makes a perfect seal...........

[Dyxlesic]

Very nice! I especially like the ARSCB. It is very cleanly integrated into the system.

I may have to start experimenting with hard tanks with regulators again, you seem to be getting equivalent, or even better performance (in terms of capacity) than an equally sized bladder, and with the regulator it would be easy to adjust performance for either better shot capacity or ranges! (I think a slight improvement could be to allow access to the regulator without opening the shell, however I'm not sure if that is possible with your regulator, or if war hosts would feel safe with that feature).

I have a few questions though. First, do you plan to lengthen the barrels? Although that may interfere with the swappable turrets it would probably boost ranges (I have found that singled salvo tanks seem to operate best with around a footlong barrel depending on barrel material).

Also, what is the ROF like? In some cases I found that barbed connectors restricted airflow, and the salvo tanks wouldn't fill all the way if you tried to shoot too fast. This may not be a problem for you due to your barrel length, and would be easy to solve simply by using larger diameter tubing.

Finally, I've never actually been able to get my hands on off the shelf three way valves. How quickly does the one you are using vent?

Anyways great job! Very well executed.

1: i want it to fire all types of darts. making the barrels longer would remove that feature, and make it less compact
2: The tank fills faster than i can pull the trigger. the high pressure from the tank and short hose make up for the barbed adaptors. they do slow it down just a little tho, but not so much that it makes a noticable difference.
3: they vent slower than blast buttons, and have to let more air out, but still work amazingly well. I love it so much, and it only cost me like $7

1. "a few BS tanks" If I destroyed a few anything, I'd've stopped way befor you did.
2. Sure took you a while. I know that I hate long projects.
3. What are the ranges like, with both guns?
4. If you made a HUGE diameter homemade pump and replaced the old one, I think pumping wouldn't be some much of a challenge. I'd use 1 1/2" to 2" pvc, then use Venom's plunger head design. I integrated that onto a SNAP, and it had an almost perfect seal with a little teflon tape on it. The entire gun was retired because the trigger didn't work.

1: thats a long story, but i really wanted this project done, so it was worth the sacrifice and R&D
2: im a busy person. 16 years old, and i have to keep up with all the normal stuff juniors in highschool deal with, in addition to running a small company by myself
3: havent done range tests yet. the ARSCB is typical magstrike ranges, and the firefly is getting better than longshot ranges. id guess 80ft with taggers. but i havent tested yet
4: tried. wouldent fit in the shell and looked uuuuugly. magie pump was the biggest i could fit

Have fun bringing such a large diameter pump up to pressure- remember pressure is measured in pounds per square inch- to work a greater diamerter pump up to the same PSI you need to pump MUCH harder. That said, a Schraeder valve on the hard tank and an upright bike pump in the staging area may be worth exploring.

thanks for pointing that out. the schraeder valve is something i may look into, and tap itnto the outside of the tank out of the shell

Nice job, I would love to see this in a real life scenario. I was wondering though what are you using to fire the big salvo tank?

CLIPPARD MAVO-3 3 way valve. it makes it semi automatic

So I must ask...did you use your sister's hamster to make those cuts?

On a more serious note, why did you ditch the original seal between the firefly's plungertube and the drum, I personaly think it makes a perfect seal...........

No, it was her pet rabbit. it has rabies

but seriously, i dont have access to many tools. i was limited to a drillpress, plyers, a screwdriver, a hacksaw, hotglue, and epoxy on this one. on this one. That was EVERY tool and glue i used. i had to be resourceful. i didnt even have a tap

this was the seal that was on my firefly. my other firefly has a rubber seal, and i might just take it...

cosmetics are going to be in part 2. They look sick, but im not finished, so it will be a while. i will hopefully finish the write-up later tonight.

Edited by Dyxlesic, 08 August 2011 - 03:37 PM.

[Archangel45]

Awesome Design- What made you decide to use a big salvo tank over any other? Also I hope you dont mind if I borrow an Idea or 2 off of this- Ive been wanting to do my own Firefly air system mod for a while but havent had the tools to do it with(or the time for that matter). Mine will be a bit more of a (stupid word filter) long range weapon with an 8 shot turret then anything. Also do you know of someplace to get those connectors cheap?

Edited by Archangel45, 10 August 2011 - 03:02 AM.

[blitz]

This is cool.

I'd use Magstrike or Rapidfire 20 bladder(s) rather than a PVC hardtank as the average pressure decreases in the hardtank, while in the bladders it will stay the same.

Overall, this combined with Flash's Salvofly (with something like PETG barrels) would be a pretty pimp primary.

This embodies the future of airguns.

I really need to get off my butt and make one. With a Triple Strike tank?.............

If I weren't destroying fireflies for other projects....

Edited by blitz, 12 August 2011 - 03:04 PM.

[Dyxlesic]

This is cool.

I'd use Magstrike or Rapidfire 20 bladder(s) rather than a PVC hardtank as the average pressure decreases in the hardtank, while in the bladders it will stay the same.

Overall, this combined with Flash's Salvofly (with something like PETG barrels) would be a pretty pimp primary.

This embodies the future of airguns.

I really need to get off my butt and make one. With a Triple Strike tank?.............

If I weren't destroying fireflies for other projects....

It has a regulator, so it's more consistent than any air bladder you will ever buy. It also gives me a much bigger air supply (2x-3x) than an air bladder.
I use stock darts, so it has to fire all darts, but drums can be made out of ANY barrel material. However, the current ranges are incredible

The barbs can be bought for like 10/$2 at homedepot or lowes.

I've had alot happen recently, and I'll finish the writeup soon.

Edited by Dyxlesic, 14 August 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[spencerak]

I bet that this system could be used on virtually any turret baster that has an auto rotating barrel (except one that use the wheel things like the Mech Tommy 20 and Barricade) to make semi-automatic. As soon as i can get the valve and regulator I am going to try this on a dtb.
Also I have one question. Why is it called project SPARK?

Edited by spencerak, 18 August 2011 - 06:40 PM.

[darknyght00]

I had hoped I could use my first post here to make a slightly larger contribution but I'm afraid I simply don't have any breakthrough material at the moment.

Anyway, I absolutely love this project Dyxlesic. I am very much looking forward to the second part of the writeup but as school is approaching I had a few questions so that I may tinker with this a bit before my studies consume what little free time I have.

1. First off, you used a Magstrike valve to fire the ARSCB. Would an RF20 valve be similar enough to substitute? I wouldn't mind getting a Magstrike but I'd rather sacrifice my RF20 since it can't fire all 20 rounds on a full bladder and ranges are lower than just about every other blaster I own.

2. Your design calls for the use of a 3-way valve and a pressure regulator to control the BS tank. I don't know of any specialty pneumatic supply shops in my area, would Home Depot, Lowes, or possibly ACE carry such components and, if so, in what department might they be found? I don't know how it is in your area but the customer service here is atrocious. Alternatively, are there any online suppliers you might recommend apart from mcmaster (I don't appreciate not knowing shipping before agreeing to purchase and I also don't care for minimum orders)?

3. On the subject of the pressure regulator, what would you say would be the best way to calibrate the air flow to avoid exploding any BS tanks while achieving best possible ranges?

Of course, it figures after months of wandering stores wondering why there are all these Fireflies now that I want one the only place still selling them is TRU (for 30 flippin' bucks! Looks like it's ebay time). I'd really like to try my hand at this one and if I can source the valve and regulator for a semi reasonable price I think it's very do-able.

@spencerak: You appear to be correct in that this system could easily be adapted for most auto rotating barrel blasters. However, there is the small matter of adapting said blaster for this system. I believe the reason Dyxlesic chose to build this into the Firefly is because of the unique internals layout that places nearly all of the stock components in the front half of the blaster which leaves plenty of space for the assorted air system components used for the upgrade in the otherwise unused rear portion of the shell. To fit this system into a DTB in a relatively clean manner, you would have to, at very least, greatly reduce the size of the air tank. I'm also unsure of where you'd place the pump if you don't use the Schrader valve idea and a staging area pump.

[Dyxlesic]

I had hoped I could use my first post here to make a slightly larger contribution but I'm afraid I simply don't have any breakthrough material at the moment.

Anyway, I absolutely love this project Dyxlesic. I am very much looking forward to the second part of the writeup but as school is approaching I had a few questions so that I may tinker with this a bit before my studies consume what little free time I have.

1. First off, you used a Magstrike valve to fire the ARSCB. Would an RF20 valve be similar enough to substitute? I wouldn't mind getting a Magstrike but I'd rather sacrifice my RF20 since it can't fire all 20 rounds on a full bladder and ranges are lower than just about every other blaster I own.

2. Your design calls for the use of a 3-way valve and a pressure regulator to control the BS tank. I don't know of any specialty pneumatic supply shops in my area, would Home Depot, Lowes, or possibly ACE carry such components and, if so, in what department might they be found? I don't know how it is in your area but the customer service here is atrocious. Alternatively, are there any online suppliers you might recommend apart from mcmaster (I don't appreciate not knowing shipping before agreeing to purchase and I also don't care for minimum orders)?

3. On the subject of the pressure regulator, what would you say would be the best way to calibrate the air flow to avoid exploding any BS tanks while achieving best possible ranges?

Of course, it figures after months of wandering stores wondering why there are all these Fireflies now that I want one the only place still selling them is TRU (for 30 flippin' bucks! Looks like it's ebay time). I'd really like to try my hand at this one and if I can source the valve and regulator for a semi reasonable price I think it's very do-able.

@spencerak: You appear to be correct in that this system could easily be adapted for most auto rotating barrel blasters. However, there is the small matter of adapting said blaster for this system. I believe the reason Dyxlesic chose to build this into the Firefly is because of the unique internals layout that places nearly all of the stock components in the front half of the blaster which leaves plenty of space for the assorted air system components used for the upgrade in the otherwise unused rear portion of the shell. To fit this system into a DTB in a relatively clean manner, you would have to, at very least, greatly reduce the size of the air tank. I'm also unsure of where you'd place the pump if you don't use the Schrader valve idea and a staging area pump.

1: Magstrike triggers and rf20 triggers are almost if not exactly the same. I have done tests with rf20 triggers, and they work great

2: I don't think so. General hardware stores don't usually sell specific valves like this one. I don't think McMastercarr has this valve (but someone will probably prove me wrong). You can get the valve and regulator 2 ways
A. Go to clippard.com and order a MAVO-3 (valve) and a MAR-1NR (regulartor) and barbs with a 10/32 male thread. The shipping will be crazy tho
B. Go to clippard.com and find your closest distributor. Call them, order the parts and either pick them up or have them ship it to you.

3.the regulator is easy to use once you know what to do. The bottom port is in, the side port is out. Screw it in to increase pressure, unscrew it to reduce pressure. It is latterly that simple.

Yes, it will work with any revolving turreted gun. The barricade and even the auto t20 (have the thing that pushes the dart forward hit the valve instead so it's electropnumatic and full auto) would work if you rebarreled, and sealed it.

Part 2 is being delayed because a huuuuuuge leak sprung up, so I'm gonna have to re-hose it. I'm gonna take friendly advice and use the quick release connectors so it won't leak

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. If you fear talio-fobic or vacc-fobic, send me a pm and I'll get right back to ya =D

[darknyght00]

I hope the quick release connectors work out. Dealing with leaks can become frustrating.

That's good news about the RF20 valve. I can't wait to tear the stupid thing apart. Sadly, using a local distributor for the pneumatic components doesn't appear possible. I am located in South Dakota and the two closest Clippard distributors are in Montana and Minnesota. You're right, shipping and handling from Clippard direct is a bear (over $20!). What I think I'll try is making a run through the local hardware stores hoping for a miracle then giving either the Minnesota or Montana distributors a call and seeing if their shipping is a bit more reasonable. I also checked McMaster-Carr just to be sure and couldn't find any comparable parts so if someone finds it there I will be just as surprised as you.

At this point, the biggest hurdle for this project is the cost: about $15 for the Firefly, $20ish for the Big Salvo, $40 somethin (!!!) for the valve/regulator/fittings, and a few bucks for the tank, epoxy, etc. Let's see if I can rework my budget to accommodate this...

Good luck with the re-hosing! Hopefully the quick release fittings work out.

[Archangel45]

I hope the quick release connectors work out. Dealing with leaks can become frustrating.

That's good news about the RF20 valve. I can't wait to tear the stupid thing apart. Sadly, using a local distributor for the pneumatic components doesn't appear possible. I am located in South Dakota and the two closest Clippard distributors are in Montana and Minnesota. You're right, shipping and handling from Clippard direct is a bear (over $20!). What I think I'll try is making a run through the local hardware stores hoping for a miracle then giving either the Minnesota or Montana distributors a call and seeing if their shipping is a bit more reasonable. I also checked McMaster-Carr just to be sure and couldn't find any comparable parts so if someone finds it there I will be just as surprised as you.

At this point, the biggest hurdle for this project is the cost: about $15 for the Firefly, $20ish for the Big Salvo, $40 somethin (!!!) for the valve/regulator/fittings, and a few bucks for the tank, epoxy, etc. Let's see if I can rework my budget to accommodate this...

Good luck with the re-hosing! Hopefully the quick release fittings work out.

Well I live in Minnesota so I could probly do a somewhat large order of the parts from Clippard and ship them to you at a lot less then what they charge. check your local stores first of course- if you can't find any though i will probly purchase some stuff from Clippard do to a simmiler project involving a firefly i have going.

[Dyxlesic]

I hate to be a downer, but I'm pretty sure the local hardware stores do not carry any advanced pneumatic valves.
There is a guy on eBay selling salvos NIB BIN and he gives huge discounts for buying multipul. he has tons of them. (posting the link is against NH rules) you could also put up a wtb for the BS tanks.
Alot of people seem to be struggleing to get their hands on this valve. If enough people need it, I may buy a bunch and sell them here on the haven.
You could also use the pump and bladder from your RF20 on this project

[spencerak]

I have a distributor very close to my house about 30ish minutes away and i go in that area quite often because my cousin live near there. I just looked on Google maps and the distributor is literally like 3 blocks from my cousins house.

Edited by spencerak, 21 August 2011 - 03:53 PM.

[darknyght00]

Almost found everything to get started. Still eluding me is a pressure regulator. I can't find the Clippard model on eBay and am having trouble finding a comparable model. I've found the 3 way valve and some fittings though, so that's nice.

Any suggestions on the regulator? Does it need to be a non-relieving model? Also, what type of tube should I use, polyurethane, vinyl, or something else?

It's looking more and more like I'll need to open a WTB thread for the regulator unless a relieving model will suffice.

EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST: I finally got everything put together. The built in secondary is INCREDIBLY impressive and I've doubled its capacity by cutting the bottom half off of stock streamlines. The main firing mech, however, is very inconsistent. Air seems to be re-entering the pump chamber which I believe is causing the BS tank to vent incorrectly. Hopefully, a replacement pump will solve this issue. If not, then the only other thing I can think of to fix it will be adding a second inlet to the tank dedicated specifically to the pump. Anyone have any ideas?

EDIT TO AVOID TRIPLE POST: Disregard complaints about the primary firing mech, the pump was the issue and everything works beautifully with the new replacement. Pics as soon as I get motivated (could be a while).

Edited by darknyght00, 22 October 2011 - 11:30 PM.