82 replies to this topic

[hockeyfights118]

I brought that up in rouges thread about his plunger, but he shit a brick, so I dropped the subject. I completely agree with you.

This is not airsoft. This isnt a sport of buying things just to put in a gun. This is a crative hobby.

Also, Why the recon? No one uses it!

[Buffdaddy]

This is not airsoft. This isnt a sport of buying things just to put in a gun. This is a crative hobby.

Also, Why the recon? No one uses it!

And by no one, you clearly mean all the people who have bought the Recon, otherwise Nerf would not continue to manufacture it. Or the tons of people who use it in Humans v. Zombies, for its portability and decent rate of fire. Or all the little kids who want a nerf gun that looks cool.

The Recon may not necessarily be loved by diehards who want 80-100ft shooting primaries, but there are lots more people who like them, and plenty of people with enough interest to use kits like these to improve the range.

[SpectreX]

So is this kit worth getting for someone like me who can't mod a recon very well at all?

Only if you're also going to get the Stage 2 kit as well. To make a good use of the Stage 1 kit, you need to take out the air restrictors. The Stage 2 kit has a metal plunger/bolt that you just drop in to replace the stock piece, so no real modding ability is necessary to get good results.

[joeri]

Another reason why these kits are awesome:
I live in the Netherlands, and the availability of nerf blasters here sucks.
I cant get a longshot.
I cant get a bbbb.
The shipping on a +bow is more than the +bow itself.
I only have access to recons and the like.
Here, any blaster that fires more than 70ft is an effing miracle.
Don't get me wrong, I love modding and can push a recon style blaster to 45-50ft, but without stronger springs more isn't possible.

[WicketTheModder619]

The future looks bright! I can't wait for all of the new kits/accessories to come out. I know some very underrated guns in my arsenal that could use just the TLC Orange Mod Works is providing. Tell them to keep up the outstanding work!

[238232]

I like most of the ideas, including the Firefly in particular. Bit odd though that from your interview and other places they said they want kits that are easy to install, but it seems to me that this kit might not be so easy.

[VelveetaAvenger]

I like most of the ideas, including the Firefly in particular. Bit odd though that from your interview and other places they said they want kits that are easy to install, but it seems to me that this kit might not be so easy.

Since they would be manufacturing all the components themselves, the finished system should be a lot smaller then something adapted from plumbing parts. Hopefully small enough that it can fit around the screw-posts and things inside the shell. Definitely looking forward to hearing more about it, but it sounds like it could be a long ways off.

[akaCB]

They seem to be taking more liberties with these later kits (like for the Maverick) than the earlier ones. It just makes me think we'll be waiting a while for these kits to come out. Nonetheless, it's very cool!

Edited by akaCB, 28 July 2011 - 05:23 AM.

[Kyosokun]

This is just dumb.
No manufacturer can do anything about accessory kits. They can't show any kind of "loss" whatsoever, and in fact modifications remove most of Hasbro's liability as soon as the user takes a tool to it. And they clearly drive sales. Every OMW kit that relates to a Hasbro blaster requires the user to buy the Hasbro blaster.

I think somebody misinterpreted whatever Hasbro actually did say. And maybe Hasbro likes it that way.

Thats true somewhat true, but when talking with a corporate giant, the normal rules don't exactly apply. It doesn't matter that Hasbro might lose whatever legal action they brought to the table, OMW would lose by default of not having the resources to fight the legal battle. And I think it's possibly a much more murky thing that it would seem at surface. Patents, and copyright infringements possibly. *shrugs*

[spacephrawg]

Thats true somewhat true, but when talking with a corporate giant, the normal rules don't exactly apply. It doesn't matter that Hasbro might lose whatever legal action they brought to the table, OMW would lose by default of not having the resources to fight the legal battle. And I think it's possibly a much more murky thing that it would seem at surface. Patents, and copyright infringements possibly. *shrugs*

Here's hoping the legal mess doesn't happen.

Meanwhile, I would like to point out that OMW's Facebook page admins have an extremely liberal policy about dialog on their fb page. They encourage detailed and even challenging questions and answer all of them with positive enthusiasm. It encourages a positive and loyal fan base i've noticed. I've seen other manufacturers of things in other hobby industries react very negatively to people doing "mini-modding" which is when someone asks a stupid question and another guy jumps in before the mods can answer it and answers it for them. For instance "which nerf guns are you making mods for?" its been asked a million times and now there's a few dedicated enthusiasts who happily reply to the guy quoting OMW's published list and saying "do a search next time". The OMW moderators actually thank the mini-modding fans! I've never seen that before.

OMW's fb moderators seem to have a policy of "no question too stupid, no question too detailed; all questions will be answered always".

Back to the Recon mod, they claim an 80-100ft range if you keep the thing in pistol configuration. That's with stage 1 and 2 kits. There's a fabled stage 3 kit coming out as well.

They told me that their new AT mod will only get 50ft of range which they attribute to more dead space inside the plunger and the longer barrel. Doesn't make much sense to me since a stock AT has a longer range than a stock Recon in pistol config. To that, OMW said "well these were our findings. All we know is what our tests showed" (paraphrasing). But at least they were kind enough to answer that far into a discussion thread!

They have said that the Longstrike kit will get a polycarbonate bolt sled. They said the Longstrike will also have a stage three kit, whatever that is.

For all ai know, over time shell failure may be a problem. However i think it can only be good for the hobby, same as aftermarket parts for other things have been good for any product line: though IBM lost the PC, the PC hasn't gone away, quite the opposite.

For those of you who do Legos, there's a company called Brickarms.com that sells guns for lego men. just about every kind of gun you can immagine unless its a bullpup, with the exception of the P90 and the Halo rifle, which they do make. the guy who owns the company was afraid Lego would sue but he brought his wares to a fan-organized lego convention at which TLC (the lego company as the fans call it) had a booth. TLC was actually thrilled to have them in the community. Similarly, the Lego mindstorms system has open source software and TLC has said publicly that they want it to stay that way so it gets more fan participation. The result is a secure future for the Lego company. Here's hoping Hasbro realizes the benefits of the existence of OMW and Black Tactical as well as anyone else who comes along.

Btw, I have a question to you guys related to the topic of professional and fan-made mods: The late model dart tag guns are really complicated compared to the N-strike guns. Do you suppose this is Hasbro's attempt to deter mods?

[VelveetaAvenger]

Btw, I have a question to you guys related to the topic of professional and fan-made mods: The late model dart tag guns are really complicated compared to the N-strike guns. Do you suppose this is Hasbro's attempt to deter mods?

They become more complicated because nerf wants to put more complicated features inside.

Nerf doesn't seem to care what we do unless we're leaking info on blasters that they haven't announced yet.

[238232]

They become more complicated because nerf wants to put more complicated features inside.

I'd agree with this (most prominent example I can think of is the integrated clip and loading system for the Quick 16 and Speedload 6) and also attribute a bit of the complexity to differing aesthetics.

I personally think that if they didn't want people modding their blasters an easy fix would be to glue the shell together. Relatively cheap and simple for them, but would be an absolute nightmare for diassembly.

[spacephrawg]

I'd agree with this (most prominent example I can think of is the integrated clip and loading system for the Quick 16 and Speedload 6) and also attribute a bit of the complexity to differing aesthetics.

I personally think that if they didn't want people modding their blasters an easy fix would be to glue the shell together. Relatively cheap and simple for them, but would be an absolute nightmare for diassembly.

Maybe it also has to do with the odd dart design with the head wider than the shaft now that i think of it.

the guys at OMW said they're considering making upgrade kits for the speed load and Quick 16 though they agree they are very difficult guns to get into. one may hope for the best. Meanwhile i'm holding out for the Alpha Trooper stage 2 kit.

[Orange Mod Works]

I still don't understand this concept. Why use aluminum? It's easily twice as dense as ABS plastic, thus requiring a stronger spring just to achieve the same crappy ranges. At some point, the stronger spring and heavier plunger are going to cause shell failure. If you are making custom internal kits for an otherwise shitty blaster, why keep the reverse plunger design? Whomever is building these kits certainly has the funding or machining skills to have these made, but they obviously do not have the engineering skills to come up with an ACTUAL improvement to the design. This isn't a mod, it's simply a material exchange.

Ahem... I'm a bit late on this response, but I think I'll have to take issue with a couple of your comments.

We're not stupid, and we certainly looked into ABS plastic parts. While I'm not at liberty to discuss our reasons, understand that we didn't just arbitrarily choose to make metal parts. (And for the record, it's stainless steel for the first batches, and a zinc alloy for the molded parts coming in a couple of weeks.)

As far as our ranges are concerned, I don't think our ranges can be considered crappy at all, especially given the utter lack of effort required to install the parts. Even if you don't know what you're doing, you can go from a flat range of 30 feet or so to nearly double that or better in 15 minutes. For those who are unskilled or don't have the patience to create their own mods, doubling your performance for less than the price of a stock Recon doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. I could name about 500+ people (so far) who agree.

Will these kits cause shell failure? Hard to say, but given that we've been flogging our Recons like dead horses for several months, firing thousands upon thousands of shots with no problems with the shell, suffice it to say we're not too worried about it.

We kept the reverse plunger design because we've been trying to make products that are simple to install and provide instant improvement. Most of our customers simply don't have the skill or the patience to try and install some of the more complex ideas we have. It's simply not a smart business practice to try and mass produce a product for a niche market within a niche market, specifically those within the Nerf-modding crowd that are capable of completely revamping and redesigning the internal workings of a blaster. While you are correct that the first kit is a material exchange, the second kit has improved the plunger tube to create a better seal and increase the amount of air it draws in before firing. It's also worth mentioning that creating a cost-effective machining process for the second kit's parts was something no one had done before and required an excessive amount of time to create and perfect.

I can think of a couple of people here who would be quite insulted by your assumption that they lack the engineering skills to create what you consider "real" mods, but I'll let our future work answer for them.

[spacephrawg]

Ahem... I'm a bit late on this response, but I think I'll have to take issue with a couple of your comments.

We're not stupid, and we certainly looked into ABS plastic parts. While I'm not at liberty to discuss our reasons, understand that we didn't just arbitrarily choose to make metal parts. (And for the record, it's stainless steel for the first batches, and a zinc alloy for the molded parts coming in a couple of weeks.)

As far as our ranges are concerned, I don't think our ranges can be considered crappy at all, especially given the utter lack of effort required to install the parts. Even if you don't know what you're doing, you can go from a flat range of 30 feet or so to nearly double that or better in 15 minutes. For those who are unskilled or don't have the patience to create their own mods, doubling your performance for less than the price of a stock Recon doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. I could name about 500+ people (so far) who agree.

Will these kits cause shell failure? Hard to say, but given that we've been flogging our Recons like dead horses for several months, firing thousands upon thousands of shots with no problems with the shell, suffice it to say we're not too worried about it.

We kept the reverse plunger design because we've been trying to make products that are simple to install and provide instant improvement. Most of our customers simply don't have the skill or the patience to try and install some of the more complex ideas we have. It's simply not a smart business practice to try and mass produce a product for a niche market within a niche market, specifically those within the Nerf-modding crowd that are capable of completely revamping and redesigning the internal workings of a blaster. While you are correct that the first kit is a material exchange, the second kit has improved the plunger tube to create a better seal and increase the amount of air it draws in before firing. It's also worth mentioning that creating a cost-effective machining process for the second kit's parts was something no one had done before and required an excessive amount of time to create and perfect.

I can think of a couple of people here who would be quite insulted by your assumption that they lack the engineering skills to create what you consider "real" mods, but I'll let our future work answer for them.

Glad you could finally make it over here OMW! Well I'm satisfied. Dunno about the rest of you guys. I'm saving for the Alpha Trooper kits and awaiting them eagerly.

[MavericK96]

OMW: Any plans to release a Stampede kit?

[Keo]

OMW: Any plans to release a Stampede kit?

Copy pasta'd, not intending to sound like a jerk:
Q. Are you going to make a kit for the _?

A. As of July 2011, kits have been released for or are currently in the works for the following blasters:

Alpha Trooper CS-18
Barricade RV-10
Element EX-6
Firefly REV-8
Longshot CS-6
Longstrike CS-6
Maverick REV-6
Nite Finder EX-3
Raider CS-35
Recon CS-6
Stampede ECS
Vulcan EBF-25

[autonerf]

Here's my Alpha Trooper Stage 1 kit review with ranges. There's a free ebook on the Alpha Trooper at OrangeModWorks

Edit: Go to page 6 where I put up a new review with slam fire. I ended up getting the super long drill bit to take out the air restrictor on this one.

Edited by autonerf, 01 December 2011 - 02:27 AM.

[KoRnEd]

Although I believe that these mod kits are a very cool idea, I think the execution could be better. I mean, these kits are made to take the work out of modding, and despite the pro of having only a screwdriver as a necessary tool, they take the creativity factor out. In addition, I think that they could have chose more traditional materials (ABS or PVC) as with custom milled aluminum is just way too expensive. $17 for something you can easily replicate the same ranges for by just going out and buying a suitable replacement spring for 3-4 dollars is not worth it in my opinion. That said, I think that did a great job on advertising and allowing for nerf youtubers to test.

[Orange Mod Works]

Although I believe that these mod kits are a very cool idea, I think the execution could be better. I mean, these kits are made to take the work out of modding, and despite the pro of having only a screwdriver as a necessary tool, they take the creativity factor out. In addition, I think that they could have chose more traditional materials (ABS or PVC) as with custom milled aluminum is just way too expensive. $17 for something you can easily replicate the same ranges for by just going out and buying a suitable replacement spring for 3-4 dollars is not worth it in my opinion. That said, I think that did a great job on advertising and allowing for nerf youtubers to test.

For what it's worth, it's not just extra range we're aiming for, but increased durability as well. But hey, to each his own.

[Kyrativ]

Although I believe that these mod kits are a very cool idea, I think the execution could be better. I mean, these kits are made to take the work out of modding, and despite the pro of having only a screwdriver as a necessary tool, they take the creativity factor out. In addition, I think that they could have chose more traditional materials (ABS or PVC) as with custom milled aluminum is just way too expensive. $17 for something you can easily replicate the same ranges for by just going out and buying a suitable replacement spring for 3-4 dollars is not worth it in my opinion. That said, I think that did a great job on advertising and allowing for nerf youtubers to test.

So your saying someone who's never opened a nerf gun before can go out, buy a new spring and some PVC and do the exact same thing as an omw kit? Including the whole new perfect sealing breech thing...I don't think so

[Viper]

Thats amazing good stuff prototyping and and all that are getting cheaper by the day.

[MavericK96]

Copy pasta'd, not intending to sound like a jerk:
Q. Are you going to make a kit for the _?

A. As of July 2011, kits have been released for or are currently in the works for the following blasters:

Alpha Trooper CS-18
Barricade RV-10
Element EX-6
Firefly REV-8
Longshot CS-6
Longstrike CS-6
Maverick REV-6
Nite Finder EX-3
Raider CS-35
Recon CS-6
Stampede ECS
Vulcan EBF-25

Cool, I didn't see that list. Thanks.

[Keo]

Cool, I didn't see that list. Thanks.

No problem. Albeit some of them are much longer off, AT/Recon out now, Longstrike, and raider out soon I think. And the LongShot kit, which is complete and no further installments like the others is to be out before 2012.

They're also gonna include like paint kits and maybe LEDs and other external mods and modding materials, and even custom streamlines/other darts.

[Kyrativ]

You guys seem to be avoiding the dart tag guns, any reason for that?