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Scammed Again For $190!

Lost Two Recons This Time!

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#1 autonerf

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 11:12 PM

You know, there's something I've learned from experience on ebay. Never, ever sell to anyone with 0 feedback. A guy on ebay who is user name bloozn70 bought 2 of my Nerf Recons on (edit) October 25, 2010. One was only modified and the other was painted and modified.

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After he got my recons, he kept asking me to send him more recons without him paying first. Red flag.
This guy was smart though. He waited until January 5, 2011 to stab me in the back long after I had forgotten him and thrown away all receipts and the ebay records had expired. I lost a total of $60 on the regular unpainted recon, and I'm about to lose $130 for the painted one, all shipping included.

On January 5th, he issued 2 chargebacks claiming unauthorized payment, chargeback reason code 37. This put a hold on my money. Only I didn't find out about the chargebacks until today, and you only get a week to respond to a chargeback. So the one case got closed and this is all paypal had to say, "We've finished reviewing this case, and we've determined that it's unlikely that we could successfully dispute this chargeback. To cover the processing for this chargeback, we have debited your account a chargeback settlement fee." So let's get this straight, if somebody issues an unfair chargeback against you, and steals your money, you get to pay a fee also.

The thing about it is, chargebacks are handled through the buyer's card company. When a buyer issues a chargeback, paypal has to settle with whatever card the buyer has, so they freeze your money until the issue is resolved. The only chance I have now of winning the money back for the $130 recon are the ebay messages I received from bloozn70 because they prove he got it. I would advise everybody reading this to block this guy right now. Go to your ebay block bidder page and block him. When you get messages like this, make sure to keep a close eye on your paypal account because you never know when they might turn on you.

Sent Oct 31, 2010 10:13 PM

Dear autonerf,

hello, about this gun. im sure u can trust me now
since i paid for if after u shipped it. can u ship
me another one, that means, can i buy another
black recon up to 100ft one. but this time. can
you make it so u just DRILL out the air
restrictors and not put anything into it. for
example the gray thing u put in that recon u
shipped ( the black one ) and also. the one you
just shipped it doesnt go 50 ft flat OR 40 feet
about 35 feet so can you make it really go 50 feet
flat also, just DRILL out the air restrictors and
not put anything into it. for example the gray
thing u put in that recon u shipped ( the black
one ) so basicly, I just want to :

1:buy a new one. just like last time you ship it
to me then i pay

2:please just DRILL out the air restrictors and
not put anything into it. for example the gray
thing u put in that recon u shipped ( the black
one )

3:and last making it really going 50 feet FLAT
( if you can really make it 50 FEET FLAT then dont
do step 2.

please and thanks.

- bloozn70

I told him I was in the middle of moving to another house so I couldn't make more recons for a long time. Besides, I had to ask more than once for his payment the first time. Now he wants more without paying?! I offered him a refund several times, hoping he would send them back because I had a feeling the chargeback was coming. I just knew from the spelling and grammar.

Sent Nov 1, 2010 3:36 PM

Dear autonerf,

ok ill just keep it. when you make another one. tell me. i surely will buy it

- bloozn70

There you have it, the evidence speaks for itself. He decided to abuse the paypal system to chargeback his money. Surely that thieving liar will not be buying anything from me again.

Edited by autonerf, 25 January 2011 - 01:25 AM.

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#2 Wes7143

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 11:53 PM

Call up an ebay agent or something. Technology can be a real bitch sometimes, but talking to a real person can be the best help in the world at times like those.
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#3 The lord of fish

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:47 AM

can you make it so u just DRILL out the air
restrictors and not put anything into it. for
example the gray thing u put in that recon u
shipped ( the black one ) and also. the one you
just shipped it doesnt go 50 ft flat OR 40 feet
about 35 feet so can you make it really go 50 feet
flat



I see a few problems, maybe if you stopped selling to little kids and dealt with their parents you might have more successful transactions. You can't expect an 11 year old to commit to paying 190$ for poorly painted recons. Red flags should go up whenever you are selling to someone who is illiterate or cannot spell correctly. You aren't really losing 190$, you are losing 40$ or less depending on what price the recons were. I'm sure theres ebay guides for sellers that will help you know what you should look for in a buyer. It also seems like he could gain leverage since the product you sold to him does not have the range that you advertised, though it is unlikely. Buyers are favored in disputes such as these.
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#4 VelveetaAvenger

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:51 AM

A guy on ebay who is user name bloozn70 bought 2 of my Nerf Recons on November 25, 2010.

Did you mean October 25th? Otherwise I have to wonder why you didn't follow your advice from the start of your other thread.

This is important for everyone who wants to sell Nerf stuff on ebay. Purchase tracking, delivery confirmation, and require a signature! Keep all receipts! Do NOT send anything until you are paid. This is what went down.


I would figure out exactly how long from the date of purchase people are allowed to do chargebacks, and make sure you keep every receipt, e-mail, and confirmation even longer. For online stuff you might want to start taking screenshots or printing out whatever you can since it sounds like part of the problem was that ebay deleted the records after a month or two. I can't imagine that the chargeback would go through if you forward that e-mail to the person in handling your case, but I don't know anything about ebay/paypal policies either.

If you still have the addresses of the scammers you could post in war threads to ask nearby nerfers to keep an eye out for your blasters. I wouldn't go around posting addresses anywhere, but if somebody happens to take a picture of the person with your blaster you'll have some evidence to fight back with. I can't imagine that non-nerfers would risk that much money and effort scamming blasters.

I see a few problems, maybe if you stopped selling to little kids and dealt with their parents you might have more successful transactions. You can't expect an 11 year old to commit to paying 190$ for poorly painted recons. Red flags should go up whenever you are selling to someone who is illiterate or cannot spell correctly. You aren't really losing 190$, you are losing 40$ or less depending on what price the recons were. I'm sure theres ebay guides for sellers that will help you know what you should look for in a buyer. It also seems like he could gain leverage since the product you sold to him does not have the range that you advertised, though it is unlikely. Buyers are favored in disputes such as these.


I just wanted to point out that it's pretty obvious he didn't receive this e-mail until after the transaction took place. Even if it was an 11 year old kid who stole his parents credit card, the parents are responsible for returning the items if they don't want to pay for them. If autonerf is really spending 5 hours just sanding these blasters like I saw in some of his ebay listings, the prices are pretty close to fair. Time is money and you've gotta make some profit too!

Hopefully you have better luck in the future, autonerf.

Edited by VelveetaAvenger, 25 January 2011 - 01:28 AM.

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#5 Darksircam

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:58 AM

However, I doubt he could realistically claim it doesn't go said distance flat. Depends on what darts you use, wind
conditions, HEIGHT OF SHOOTER...

He's not losing $190, but not $40 either. A paintjob and mod does cost money, after all. And shipping. And time.

But yeah, as a general warning, people who are completely inarticulate on the internet are generally not good customers.

I might risk selling them stuff, but only if they pay first. After all, it is the buyer who wants the product, and you're not really wanting to get rid of your nerf blaster first.

Even people with high feedback might have a kid who decides to scam for nerf blasters one day. It's happened before. Paranoia is always nice on the internet.
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#6 autonerf

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:22 AM

While I can agree with you about only dealing with parents of the child, I most certainly will lose all the $190. Paypal money is just the same as actual money, and now my balance is -$93.99. Where does the money come from to fix the balance? A bank transfer or by selling more stuff. Second, if the recon was so poorly painted, and the modifications did not meet his expectations, why would he keep asking for more of them, instead of requesting a refund? He said he was interested in buying more and was urgent about getting them fast. There are lots of other recons he could have chosen from. For all we know he had planned to chargeback the money from the beginning. As in a similar case with Bocatmom, it was never clear whether an adult made the purchase, or a child had used a parent's account to make the purchase. That is why unauthorized payments still remain a problem, and an ebay agent may be the only hope.
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#7 Abyss Mods

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 06:27 AM

Looks like ebay just isn't your thing, man. But yeah, make sure you only sell to adults. Children will only scam you over and over again.
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#8 Kid Flash

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:04 AM

Personally, I try not to deal with people who have no feedback. I also keep my receipts, which EVERYONE should do. If they file a claim, then you have receipts. Personally, I consider you to be a complete idiot (as well as other people) for not keeping your post office receipts. This is one reason I get delivery confirmation. You aren't losing much. If anything, you are loosing 50 dollars plus shipping for the 2 recons. Getting anything over ~40 per dollars for a recon is retarded. Just my 2 cents.
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#9 Daniel Beaver

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:35 AM

You aren't really losing 190$, you are losing 40$ or less depending on what price the recons were.

That's the proper way to look at the situation.

People on the internet are mean. The architecture of eBay does lend a lot of leverage to the seller, however.

Edited by Daniel Beaver, 25 January 2011 - 08:36 AM.

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#10 Solscud007

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 01:45 PM

Sadly Ebay and paypal doesnt really care too much about the seller. they protect the buyer always. Even if you have their Premier Seller accounts. My friend lost money even though he had proof of sale and delivery.
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#11 autonerf

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:23 PM

Personally, I try not to deal with people who have no feedback. I also keep my receipts, which EVERYONE should do. If they file a claim, then you have receipts. Personally, I consider you to be a complete idiot (as well as other people) for not keeping your post office receipts. This is one reason I get delivery confirmation. You aren't losing much. If anything, you are loosing 50 dollars plus shipping for the 2 recons. Getting anything over ~40 per dollars for a recon is retarded. Just my 2 cents.


Delivery confirmation and postal insurance.

Linking in the delivery confirmation data to eBay is automatic if you use PayPal to print your postage and address labels. Then both eBay and PayPal know when it was delivered.

Still, selling on eBay is a risk. They inform you of it all. Pretty much all their "protection" is for buyers. Take it or leave it. On anything that sells for over a hundred dollars, even the insurance cost should be a no-brainer.

And as has already been mentioned, my sympathy wears really thin when the OP claims the entire selling price was their "loss." A blaster that can be found at Goodwill for under ten bucks, some parts, some paint, some time, and a pack of darts - or whatever accessories were included. Forty bucks maybe.


Trust me, I have kept every one of my receipts since I started getting chargebacks. At the beginning I just figured once the payment was cleared and processed, feedback was left, and the item expired, that was it and the money was safe. The hard lesson learned is that paypal says "Chargebacks are initiated and handled by the buyer's credit card issuer - not by PayPal - and therefore will follow that company's regulations and timeframes. That said, PayPal often plays a role in resolving chargeback disputes." Notice it does not say PayPal always plays a role in resolving disputes. Which means the amount of time an individual has to issue a chargeback depends on the card company of the buyer, and there's no promise that PayPal will do anything to protect the seller.

A lot of people are saying I haven't really lost much since a recon is just $20 or so. One could say the same about a painting only being worth the cost of the paint, brushes, and the canvas. What would you say if after working 2 weeks, your boss said, "Sorry, I don't have your check, but you haven't lost much, only some of your time". When you spend 15 - 20 hours on a gun, taking it apart, doing modification, preparing the plastics, painting several layers, putting it together, getting the box and labels, going to the post office and paying to send it, you then realize how time is of value. In ebay, the price agreed upon is the value of the item. What I care about more than the money is that the crime does not go unpunished. If Jack Hammond thinks he can simply take whatever he wants from me and keep my items at the expense of my labor, there may be a letter from a lawyer in his mailbox soon or a call from the police.

In response to durka durka, he left me positive feedback on one of the recons, but it mysteriously disappeared. The feedback I left for him is still there. I already offered him refunds if he would return them. He said he would just keep them, then later said one recon got broken and it would not prime anymore, probably due to him jamming darts in the plunger. Even then, he kept asking me to hurry and make him more recons made to his specifications and to send them soon. I told him he should get some from abcsupermall or nerfnerdsdaniel because I was out and couldn't make anymore. He already has admitted to receiving the recons in his emails, and I have a feeling he's an adult because the buyer's name was not always listed on PayPal as Jack Hammond. It used to be a Chinese sounding name before it got changed so the guy might just have poor English.

Edited by autonerf, 25 January 2011 - 08:20 PM.

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#12 durka durka

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:49 PM

Was feedback left for the items in question? That alone is proof that the items were received.

If I were you, I would email the buyer demanding that your items be returned. See what kind of response you get and maybe you can trap this kid into admitting he has them. Assuming that this is a young kid who is attempting to scam you, then the credit card used to make the purchases must belong to an adult. I would try and contact the true owner of said card and notify them of the situation. You could call the credit card company and see if they could give you any information, or you could even send a letter to the address you shipped to). Gather any information that may help you regardless of how unimportant it might be.


Also, I think you people who are arguing over how much autonerf may lose are missing the point. Scams like this are wrong and all effort should be made to stop them. By stopping this scam, you may be saving some other sellers lots of time and aggravation.
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#13 VelveetaAvenger

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:06 PM

Regardless of how much you think his time is worth, I think you guys need to keep in mind that it's been at least 2 months since autonerf received the money. It was his and it sounds like it was spent. Now he has to pay $190 out of his own pocket, it's not the same as having the payment still sitting in his account and going directly back a couple days after the sale. Instead of just being a waste of time and a little money, it's now a waste of time and a lot of money.
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#14 lionhawk

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:21 PM

Obviously from the two threads you have started, there is only one conclusions.
One:People like to scam you
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#15 Exo

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:04 PM

People who don't know how to type a proper e-mail have to be stupid, or are trying to appear uneducated. Also, the buyer asking for a directly contracted gun, instead of just looking else where, and after only one purchase, without any previous contact, is kind of wierd. An interracial name change in the middle of a seriously problamatic transaction?

I don't know about you, but it takes some serious effort to build up a positive reputation here on the Haven as a good Buyer/Seller. Maybe you should think about selling in our threads. Plus, the mods would help out if there was a problem, and could keep the scammer from scamming again.
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#16 Kid Flash

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:50 AM

Personally, I try not to deal with people who have no feedback. I also keep my receipts, which EVERYONE should do. If they file a claim, then you have receipts. Personally, I consider you to be a complete idiot (as well as other people) for not keeping your post office receipts. This is one reason I get delivery confirmation. You aren't losing much. If anything, you are loosing 50 dollars plus shipping for the 2 recons. Getting anything over ~40 per dollars for a recon is retarded. Just my 2 cents.


Delivery confirmation and postal insurance.

Linking in the delivery confirmation data to eBay is automatic if you use PayPal to print your postage and address labels. Then both eBay and PayPal know when it was delivered.

Still, selling on eBay is a risk. They inform you of it all. Pretty much all their "protection" is for buyers. Take it or leave it. On anything that sells for over a hundred dollars, even the insurance cost should be a no-brainer.

And as has already been mentioned, my sympathy wears really thin when the OP claims the entire selling price was their "loss." A blaster that can be found at Goodwill for under ten bucks, some parts, some paint, some time, and a pack of darts - or whatever accessories were included. Forty bucks maybe.

A lot of people are saying I haven't really lost much since a recon is just $20 or so. One could say the same about a painting only being worth the cost of the paint, brushes, and the canvas. What would you say if after working 2 weeks, your boss said, "Sorry, I don't have your check, but you haven't lost much, only some of your time". When you spend 15 - 20 hours on a gun, taking it apart, doing modification, preparing the plastics, painting several layers, putting it together, getting the box and labels, going to the post office and paying to send it, you then realize how time is of value. In ebay, the price agreed upon is the value of the item. What I care about more than the money is that the crime does not go unpunished. If Jack Hammond thinks he can simply take whatever he wants from me and keep my items at the expense of my labor, there may be a letter from a lawyer in his mailbox soon or a call from the police.


Honestly, you are a retard if you spend 2 weeks painting a nerf blaster black and silver. I could do the exact same paint job with:

3 1 dollar cans of paint (silver, black, clear)
2 Recons, which are like 15-20 each
a roll of masking tape, which costs 1 dollar.
2 hours worth of time (not including dry time)

Lets face it. You lost about 40 dollars (plus about 15 dollars for your time).

If this was a CUSTOM paintjob, that someone contracted you to do, this would be totally different. But no, you're just slapping some black and silver paint onto them and calling it done. Someone isn't telling you what colors to paint it. You're not puting detail into them. Get over it. You say you're going to get a lawyer? Do you have any idea how much they cost? I do. I've been through it. It's not worth your 20 dollar blasters.
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#17 TOTtomdora

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 07:13 AM

Just wondering, but why are you so easy to get scammed? I'm not trying to sound like I'm insulting you (even though it does sound like it... I often write things that aren't meant to be insulting but people find them insulting). It's just an honest question. Really, it is!
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#18 VACC

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:06 AM

Plus, the mods would help out if there was a problem,.


FALSE. We in NO WAY guarantee any transaction, and have no obligation to any seller or buyer. This is not a marketplace, and we are not responsible for it's regulation as one. If you cannot manage your own transactions you should not perform them here.
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#19 Inferno Falcon

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 02:33 PM

I don't know about you, but it takes some serious effort to build up a positive reputation here on the Haven as a good Buyer/Seller. Maybe you should think about selling in our threads.



Although that seems like a great idea, the cold hard truth is nobody here is going to want to buy a shittily painted black and silver recon. Not even for $40. He was selling something that only stupid children on ebay would buy, and guess who bought it? A stupid child on ebay.
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#20 autonerf

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:37 PM

Exo - As many comments have suggested, the expectations here are a lot higher since some members are educated about how to modify and paint their own blasters. I don't focus on making the high powered guns for nerf wars that use stefans. My target group of consumers are parents who want something for their kid that will not shoot out the windows, but has looks and originality. As Vacc said, Nerfhaven makes no promises about selling/buying transactions.

Kid Flash - Calling me a retard holds just as much water as your opinion of my paint jobs. You're just blowing air really, because your claim that you could replicate the same exact paint job in 2 hours of time is absurd for many reasons. You seem to think it's magically possible without even taking the recons apart or sanding the plastics first. Your dollar cans of paint would scratch off in an instant against the moving parts. This was painted with $8 cans of Duplicolor Vinyl and Fabric Coating. You are only judging the value of my work based upon how you would do your work. Regardless of opinions, in ebay the price agreed upon is the value of the item.

TOTtomdora - Lots of people get scammed. Ever since ebay decided to give buyers most of the protection, covering their purchase price, and allowing them to receive only positive feedback for transactions. Out of more than 150 transactions, I have only had a few dead beat bidders, chargebacks, and refunds.

Vacc - I use the selling thread on occasion to buy gun parts which is handy. I do not plan to sell here because although the risk may be lower, so would the profit be lower. It seems that here blasters are only worth their retail value, unless a big name did the work on it.

Inferno Falcon - Last time I checked a stupid child cannot get approved for a credit card. Yes, I'm aware that nobody here values my stuff. Thanks for reminding me. Got any more insults? I've got plenty of positive feedback for my paintings. What matters in the end is what makes the moolah, and the opinions of those giving the gold.
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#21 Kid Flash

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 07:05 PM

Kid Flash - Calling me a retard holds just as much water as your opinion of my paint jobs. You're just blowing air really, because your claim that you could replicate the same exact paint job in 2 hours of time is absurd for many reasons. You seem to think it's magically possible without even taking the recons apart or sanding the plastics first. Your dollar cans of paint would scratch off in an instant against the moving parts. This was painted with $8 cans of Duplicolor Vinyl and Fabric Coating. You are only judging the value of my work based upon how you would do your work. Regardless of opinions, in ebay the price agreed upon is the value of the item.

You're a retard. It takes you 2 weeks to sand something and paint it? 2 hours not including the dry time and the time you spend between coats. That's a reasonable timeframe for you slapping some black and silver onto a nerf gun. I don't see how my paint is going to scratch off... There's something called clearcoat. Pretty magical stuff. I'm done trying to tell you that you're an idiot. I assumed you could understand something as simple as you not losing 190 dollars. I guess I made an ass out of you and me. Actually, I don't think I made an ass of myself... I think I was realistic. You're dreaming.
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#22 durka durka

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 07:58 PM

I personally don't value a modded recon at $190, but that doesn't matter because obviously autonerf's buyers do. Just because you might be of the opinion that $190 is too expensive, doesn't mean that autonerf should change his business practices to satisfy you.

Also, calling someone a retard just because they put more value and time into their work is just nonsense. You look like a fool when assuming that the way you do things is the way everyone else does.

Autonerf: I occasionally sell electronics (computers, ipods, and such) at an outdoor market. The people there aren't exactly good people and will occasionally try to steal my stuff (Hell, I even had to chase a guy down who tried to walk off with a laptop) My point is that these events would force me to change how I did business in order to avoid any more losses. I hope these experiences are enough to get you to change your business in a way that you won't run into these problems anymore. I hate seeing people get ripped of, and hope you find a way to end this.
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#23 Kid Flash

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 04:31 AM

I personally don't value a modded recon at $190, but that doesn't matter because obviously autonerf's buyers do. Just because you might be of the opinion that $190 is too expensive, doesn't mean that autonerf should change his business practices to satisfy you.

Also, calling someone a retard just because they put more value and time into their work is just nonsense. You look like a fool when assuming that the way you do things is the way everyone else does.


I'm not saying he shouldn't sell them for that much. I'm saying he's not really losing that much. He didn't PAY 190 dollars for the recons, so he's really not LOSING 190 dollars. And yeah, I'm sticking with my opinion of him being a total retard.
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#24 Blue

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 06:00 AM

Why are you even posting this here? You aren't going to get any sympathy from us, nor are we able to to help you with your problems. Ebay has their own forums.
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#25 VACC

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:00 AM

Enough.
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