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+pistol, By Splitlip

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homemade plusbow pistol spring

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#1 Split

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:03 PM

There's been a bunch of talk about this thing for a while, so I'm sure many of you have heard the name, if nothing else. It has gone through three main revisions before I got it to the stage it's at now and that I'm happy with. I don't expect the average modder to be able to put the hours of tweaking in that it took to get this to where it is, so I have no intention to post a writeup. If someone on here was capable of making this, they wouldn't need one anyway.

Anyway, what I'm talking about:
The +pistol.
GEDC1996.jpg

Average range: 155 feet flat.

The goal was range, secondary emphases on size and comfort. It's built off of the +bow model, but there is not one piece, save the plunger head washer and spacer that is exactly the same. Every component was modified in some necessary way, including the spring and plunger tube.

To achieve the range goal, I poured everything into it. Utilizing the +bow setup, I maximized both air volume and spring compression, giving 1.25" more of each (at a radius of 11/16" for the air volume, a 16% increase on the already huge volume). With the replaced, extremely comfortable handle, and minus the stock (I personally don't like it, others do.), it gave a very rough approximation as V1:
GEDC1960.jpg<--- Old Version, scroll down to see more!
GEDC1958.jpg<--- Old Version, scroll down to see more!
GEDC1959.jpg<--- Old Version, scroll down to see more!

You can see the first version of the new integration rail, but that version took too long and was too costly to use and make attachments.

There aren't any picture of the second version, but many people saw it at Meltdown. It was dubbed the "barrel launcher", as the recoil coupled with an old coupler made barrels shoot out a solid 10+ feet.

Anyway, I want to touch on the major points of this mod:
The range - with V3 (the final version), I realized that the extra air volume was actually hurting ranges. I took that away. The spring is now pretensioned quite a bit, and still compresses more than in the +bow. The blaster is very pick with darts, and prefers very specific darts in a very specific, and surprisingly short, barrel. I'm experimenting with more barrel and dart fits along the way, but for now, I'm more than happy with the range it gets.

Size:
This beast measures in at a meager 12.5", barely larger than a Maverick:
GEDC1995.jpg

New coupler system: This helps decrease the size a bit, but it's almost modular. It's pretty unique actually. It fits snugly into the plunger tube without anything done to it, and this is wrapped in e-tape and gooped for both stability and a seal. because of the goop, the bolt running through it does not need to go through ice-picked e-tape, like in the +bow. This makes removing the bolt (and overall disassembly) much easier, but also leads into the modularity. If you pull out the bolt, the coupler is actually a set of reducers. You can pull out the 1/2" reducer and now you can use a 3/4" pvc connection, say for a breech (slide angel breech works in 3/4".. hehe).
GEDC2000.jpg

"Shaftless" plunger: to increase ranges, I wanted to reduce the mass of the plunger rod. I intend to get some comparison measurements of different aspects of this gun relative to a +bow, so watch for that. This part is very unique though, and spawned most of the work on this blaster.
GEDC2001.jpg

Blaster primed (note how it doesn't really change in size):
GEDC2006.jpg
The plunger is only about 1" longer than the catch notch, and the rest is very light aluminum wire. Interestingly, the wire itself does not actually add mass to the plunger, because it actually is pushing on the plunger (as seen in the second picture).

Many things had to change to allow this to work. The catch had to be modified, but this is also the reason the spring had to be. It is now affixed to both the blaster and the plunger.
GEDC2005.jpg


Priming handle:

GEDC2010.jpg
This part is a piece of sanded and shaped polycarbonate attached to the wire, with three coats of Plastidip for durability and comfort. When you pull it back, it actually retracts back to your hand via a retractable pen holder in the handle, further reducing the mass on the plunger.

Handle and trigger:
The handle is from a Brass Eagle Talon, from what I understand. I find it very comfortable, and has lots of room on the inside with the removable cap. No clue what else to use it for but it's there.
GEDC2004.jpg

The trigger went through a few revisions, but the end result is perfect for me. It is, by definition, a hair trigger. Extremely hair. About 1/16" of linear travel at your finger translates into the entire motion of the catch. Which means a lot of force to fire it. There was also about 5 degrees of play in the trigger. The solution I came up with is prettty clever actually:
GEDC2003.jpg

The trigger spring actually pulls with the trigger, instead of against it. It removes all play, and helps in pulling the trigger quite a bit. Novel and practical, though not complicated. Very nerfy, if I do say so myself.

Last but not least - the tactical rail:
GEDC2000.jpg
(Seen at the bottom of this picture, I know it's a repeat.)

It's pretty unique. When Langley saw it, he remarked that it was "warped". To the contrary actually. The front intentionally curves in, via those side braces and carefully threaded screws, to provide tension to the attachment and hold it in. I currently only have a front handle finished, but there's more on the way. The next one is almost done, and it's pretty spectacular.

I'll get you guys some videos of the range and ROF asap, but no promises. I currently have no 'net at my house, and have to post this at school as is. Feel free to comment.
GEDC2007.jpg
Wow. The pictures are a lot blurrier than I thought. My apologies. I can get new ones if any one needs them.


Edited by Aeromech, 23 November 2015 - 01:13 AM.

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Teehee.

#2 wingd man

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:08 PM

Wow. Just wow. Although probably banned from every war imaginable, that is one powerful beast. So it has basically the same internals as a NF, except with a bigger spring, plunger tube, plunger, etc.?
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#3 Echnalaid

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:09 PM

What's with you and super ranged pistols?
Would this be classified as a primary? First pistol splat, now this. You are the man.
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#4 rork

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:11 PM

I've been wondering for a while how long it would be before someone hacked the almighty +bow. I like it, in a one-off sort of way. The power is...impressive to the point of excess. It's nice to see you do a homemade--especially one that required this much planning and innovation. I absolutely love the plunger setup. Congratulations.
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#5 ice

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:11 PM

Looks great. I guess it breaking at paw 3 was a good thing :D

"WTF, we haven't started yet, stop shooting!!!"
"Just checking the range. SPLIT HAS RANGE!!!!"

Edited by ice, 02 April 2009 - 04:12 PM.

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<!--quoteo(post=206428:date=Jan 25 2009, 05:17 PM:name=Mukersman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mukersman @ Jan 25 2009, 05:17 PM) View Post</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Turd stefans. When I pulled these out of the pillow case i was just like, what... the... fuck...
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#6 Ice Nine

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:13 PM

There's been a bunch of talk about this thing for a while, so I'm sure many of you have heard the name, if nothing else. It has gone through three main revisions before I got it to the stage it's at now and that I'm happy with. I don't expect the average modder to be able to put the hours of tweaking in that it took to get this to where it is, so I have no intention to post a writeup. If someone on here was capable of making this, they wouldn't need one anyway.


Then why post a new thread? It belongs in the homemade pictures thread like all the rest of these pet projects.
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#7 Salmon

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:13 PM

That thing should be banned at wars for being just too beastly. Incredible work.
EDIT: Does the outward-facing spike actually do anything, other than look sweet?

Edited by Salmon, 02 April 2009 - 04:16 PM.

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#8 rork

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:16 PM

People are talking about banning it already? Gets the same range as a PAS or a BBBB, but OH NO! IT'S HOMEMADE! Bah.
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#9 Merzlin

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:16 PM

I can see it now, ice putting a chopped up stock on it and calling it a +rifle Anyways, I concur with Ice9.
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#10 Split

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:18 PM

Well like I said then, Ice, that wasn't the original plan. People seem to have thought that at meltdown as well. Those first two versions with solid plunger rods were just testing the design. That's why breaking that first rod didn't phase me so much. Months in the works though I suppose. Not too long to machine the parts, but damn long hours of tweaking.

I just wanted to mention this - I believe that this is the furthest shooting springer ever made. Let that soak in.

Anyway, I almost expect this to be banned. The range of a 'Slug big blast without the pumping time. It's alright by me though, I like to play close and fast, this was just a pet project, leading into my next few big ones. Lots of side projects of course. I'll keep you all informed.

Edit to responses I missed while typing: Ice Nine, eh, fuck you. Rork, never heard of a PAS shooting 155'.., and Salmon, I sometimes use it to hold the barrel when storing the gun, but otherwise, not at all. I was going for a sub-theme of spikes in the cosmetic side. I'll put more into that as time goes by.

Edited by Splitlip, 02 April 2009 - 04:20 PM.

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Teehee.

#11 Zorns Lemma

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:21 PM

I like the new plunger "rod," but how exactly did you rig up the wire retraction (the reference to the pen is ambiguous) such that when the gun fires the wire doesn't snap forward in a dangerous manner?

I also disagree with calling this a +pistol, as it's essentially a +bow without a stock. Add a barrel and this is nowhere near pistol size.
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#12 rork

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:24 PM

http://nerfhaven.com...?showtopic=7783

160+. BAM!
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<a href="http://nerfhaven.com...howtopic=20296" target="_blank">SNAPbow Mk. V</a>
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#13 VACC

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:52 PM

http://nerfhaven.com...?showtopic=7783

160+. BAM!


Yeah, he had it at apoc '07. The thing was dangerously powerful...which is probably why the catch broke mid-war. Haven't seen another approach those ranges really. Not really fair to consider those standard pas ranges.
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#14 PointBlank

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:53 PM

This is a great achievement. Congratulations. I truly admire your handiwork.
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#15 ice

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:54 PM

Since it's pistol size, I will alow this in use of pistol rounds at the PA wars :D
It'd be so murderous if that was aloud...
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<!--quoteo(post=206428:date=Jan 25 2009, 05:17 PM:name=Mukersman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mukersman @ Jan 25 2009, 05:17 PM) View Post</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Turd stefans. When I pulled these out of the pillow case i was just like, what... the... fuck...
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#16 Carbon

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 04:59 PM

I like the new plunger "rod," but how exactly did you rig up the wire retraction (the reference to the pen is ambiguous) such that when the gun fires the wire doesn't snap forward in a dangerous manner?

I'm wondering about that as well.....I have visions of that priming handle flapping back and forth like a piece of spaghetti being slurped in.

Nice work...With that much range, it's begging for an RSCB, and bumping up that ROF.
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#17 BustaNinja

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 05:01 PM

Huh, it's pistol sized, but so is my average SNAP minus a barrel...

Its not a pistol, but I don't care. That thing is the Desert Eagle of Nerf, and I have to say, I WANT THAT HANDLE!!! Where did you get it and what from? I want to use that for a SNAP
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#18 Talio

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 05:25 PM


I just wanted to mention this - I believe that this is the furthest shooting springer ever made. Let that soak in.


It's a seriously cool creation, but don't sprain your arm patting yourself on the back.

That claim is gonna need quite a few more qualifications to bear up. Like the pistol form factor, and specifying micro stefans.

For example, more than 15 years ago, I had built shoulder fired spring powered launchers that would throw a half pouind projectile almost 150 yards. And mine were not the winners in the competitions.

Also, all with Home Depot (or OSH) parts. Though ... I don't usually see nerfers in the garage door department. They have springs there that'll remind you of Crocodile Dundee's "that's not a knife!"



I like you told him not to pat himself on the back and then bragged about your gun from 15 years ago. Seriously classy move.

And as far as the qualifications, I'm now forming the official Nerf Haven modification judgement team specifically to judge the farthest shooting spring gun. I am the sole member. I vote for splits gun.

Split wins. Bob's disqualified.

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#19 Draconis

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:02 PM

And as far as the qualifications, I'm now forming the official Nerf Haven modification judgement team specifically to judge the farthest shooting spring gun. I am the sole member. I vote for splits gun.

Split wins. Bob's disqualified.



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Pretty impressive Splitlip. The latest version is pretty damn cool. I, like Carbon, wonder how you keep from smacking yourself with the piece on the end of the priming wire? It'd pretty neat if it clipped to the back of the catch mechanism or something.
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#20 Split

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:08 PM

The priming handle doesn't even move when it's fired. Compare the position in the first photo, where it's unprimed, to when it is in the last. It rests on the top of your hand at most... Bob, you're on a nerf forum. I wonder if I'm talking about nerf blasters... Hmmm... HMMMMMMMMM.... Anyone? Kthxbai.
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Teehee.

#21 death by cheez

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:13 PM

You my friend are one talented visionary mother fucker!!! Super Props
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#22 Split

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 06:57 PM

I just thought of something. There's something that really only a person who has worked on +bows would know that is very important to this project. The +bow stock and plunger handle work together to keep the plunger rod straight. I knew this, and Slug noted it the first time he saw the blaster at Meltdown. The first two revisions worked off of a solid plunger rod, and a flat handle. I tried to explain to him (though I suspect I was unsuccessful) that since the handle was on tightly, you could just pull back and keep the rectangular handle in the same position, and it would catch just fine.

Well, obviously you can't do this one. After a lot of experimenting and tweaking, I found that two things turned the plunger rod while priming - the spring and the rotational forces in the wire (which, before I plastidipped the handle, you could actually tweak by twisting the wire). To solve this, I mounted the spring to the blaster and the plunger so that the turning from the wire would be equal to turn built into the plunger. I don't think you can see it, but when the blaster is unprimed, the notch on the plunger rod is actually turned clockwise (when looking from the back of the blaster) a bit.


Oh, and how is it that FA can get away with his dumb pseudo-macho threats and hype machine, and I can't not get ridiculed on a simple assertion that there hasn't been a spring powered blaster to average higher ranges. Isn't the aerodynamic maximum of darts like 160' flat or something? Eh. I'll look into it, but that's what I heard, from a reputable source at the time.

For the record, the current barrel is 8", with a little over .5" in the coupler. Got a little stress over that as well.

Jesus people, I shouldn't be getting crap for posting this. I'm, of course, not one to say nothing about it. I posted this to inform people about the gun. I previously had no intention of saying anything about it. I appreciate constructive criticism, like what Carbon said, and I'll happily explain whatever you want. If you find a flaw, great! I'll make my blaster better if I can. That's what the thread is here for.

Edited by Splitlip, 02 April 2009 - 06:59 PM.

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Teehee.

#23 Carbon

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 07:14 PM

The priming handle doesn't even move when it's fired. Compare the position in the first photo, where it's unprimed, to when it is in the last. It rests on the top of your hand at most...

Looks like it comes out the back about 4" or so? At any rate, good to hear that there's no whip issue to worry about. This is the feature of this gun that intrigues me the most...I've always wondered about a wire pull on a high-power blaster.

What's the actual plunger draw, anyway? Considering the overall scale and spring size, it can't be that much.
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#24 analogkid

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 07:19 PM

Absolutely sick man. I don't usually post in threads just to say that something is awesome, but this deserves it. I had wondered and thought about making mods to a +bow to remove the stock, seeing how I love super-pistols, but nothing I had conceptualized was that ambitious. Bring it to APOC this year, I wanna see it in person ;) .
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#25 Split

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 07:23 PM

When I get to make the videos, I'll be sure to include the priming handle in there. It's 6.25" draw (1 3/8" inside diameter), same volume as the +bow, but the spring is compressed an inch more initially, and a little over an inch more primed. I actually have a +bow in my workshop, and it's owner said it'd be okay to include it in a video comparison. The plunger tube is only 11" long, as compared to the +bow's 12".

Bob, why would I do that? That'd require a complete redesign, and all of this is already done. The XXL shot about 115' flat with a perfectly fitting dart in the 2' barrel, but a lot less without that. I believe the big snap advertised 140-145 average? I don't really keep up on homemades, but you're welcome to question my beliefs, just don't be a dick about it, if you can resist. Ultimators and maximizers are probably the next highest contenders, but I've never found any purported reliable ranges on those.

Edit: Analog - will do. Hopefully I'll have my next, much bigger and more expensive project in at least its early stages by then.

Edited by Splitlip, 02 April 2009 - 07:24 PM.

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Teehee.



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