52 replies to this topic

[Green-Buckshot]

WTB: LnL. WTB: SM 1.5K. WTB: Bow and Arrow.

You hear these things all over the forums. Stuff about, "What you'd do to get your hands on..." Whether you're talking about something as old as the Crossbow or as recent as a SuperMaxxx 5000. The thing is, I hardly ever hear anyone mention how they'd ring someone's neck for a NiteFinder, or how they'd maim someone for a MagStrike. I understand that part of this has something to do with the rarity of certain guns. For instance, although there are guns that can hit ranges above or equal to the CrossBow, showing up with a Crossbow in your arsenal says certain things about you. It may say that you've been into NERF for a while. It may say you have classy taste. But other than that, why spend the extra money?

The fact of the matter is, showing up with a newer gun that shoots equal or greater distance than a CrossBow < showing up with a CrossBow.

Why?

It seems the general consensus among some of the community is that the new guns "suck" and the old guns "pwn". The thing is, that isn't true. Hasbro is churning out just as many decent guns as it used to. My NiteFinder can shoot just as far as a Lock 'n' Load. A Titan can get ranges greater than a CrossBow. And yet it seems that a good portion of people have closed their eyes to these facts. Sure, NERF had some really innovative guns that you just can't equal anymore. I just shelled out 20$ for a SharpShooter II. But that was because the SSII matched my needs, and Hasbro isn't making plunger-powered, one-at-a-time, instant switch barrel guns. The thing is, even though there may still be things on the market to match your needs, people still gravitate to older guns.

Once again, Why? If you don't need an older gun, there's no shame in a newer arsenal. Sure, some of the new guns are complete flops, but if Hasbro doesn't experiment, the guns aren't getting any better. So I propose this: Go out to your local NERF carrying store, and by a gun. Doesn't matter what gun. Go home and mod it. I guarantee, that the gun will equal the ranges of one of the older guns, modded or unmodded. So why not sponsor the company that gave us NERF guns to begin with? This way, they keep churning out guns, and we can keep churning out mods. Who knows? The next "CrossBow" could be right around the corner, and we wouldn't even know it...


B: Green-Buckshot

Sorry about the rant in this forum and all. It wouldn't let me post in the "Articles" forum.

Edited by Green-Buckshot, 07 April 2008 - 04:25 PM.

[OfAllTheNerf]

First, lets clear up the Crossbow debate once and for all.

THE CROSSBOW IS NOT INSANELY POWERFUL, AND PEOPLE DO NOT BUY THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE.

Sorry for making you bleed. The reason people like it is because it is one of the most comfortable guns to handle, and is the easiest to modify and most reliable spring-primary that isn't homemade. It has also become somewhat of a status symbol, and most people just happen to have $150 (or more, as new members seem to have more and more money (and less and less lives)) to dedicate to a piece of plastic. An incredibly orgasmic, wet-dream material piece of plastic which can induce symptoms similar to that of marijuana, but a piece of plastic nonetheless.

As for the Titan, they won't, or shouldn't be, allowed at any large scale wars. Unless you're just playing with your friends, are incredibly cruel and have an insane grasp on peer pressure, it isn't a good idea to use then singled (other than balls). They kill, and most people won't want to play with them after being shot without wearing some sort of intense padding.

Older guns aren't simply "better" than new ones, they just used to make alot of them "easier" to modify and much more effective guns to use in a war back then. You can still get quick pistols, quad an NF.

Everyone has their own reason for liking old guns, whether it be for collecting purposes or because money is of no object. It doesn't really matter how old or "good" your guns are, if you can't Nerf well there isn't really a point (and if you're just a modder who likes improving guns, that's fine, but you shouldn't really be shelling out a ton for a Crossbow).

"Nerf on or fuck off"

-OfAll'

Edited by OfAllTheNerf, 07 April 2008 - 04:43 PM.

[Pineapple]

I think it's a matter of practicality and reliability, for the most part.

Sure, there's some elitist snobbery amongst the most experienced of Nerfers who use forums for communication, about the "superiority" of their beloved Crossbows or SM1500s. But there's also a lot of truth behind their gravitating toward the older in favor over the newer.


I also think that it's on the part of Hasbro and their Nerf lineup. Look at the blasters of the late 90's early 21st century... the SuperMaxx lineup. Strange shapes, predominantly air-powered. Look a bit further back to the Max Force days... spring powered, some air powereed (Airjet series)... but for the most part, SIMPLE... the most complex weapons were the Powerclip, the RF20, and the Mad Hornet.

Compare that to the weaponry of today. The N-Strike lineup. The gravitation to make their Nerf blasters look, feel, and function more like "real" guns (I believe it's a market move to hit on the pre-Airsoft crowd), and in the process, the blasters have more moving parts (which means breakable parts), more complex mechanisms, and more ways to lose power than a blaster made 10 years ago.


A Crossbow or an Expand-a-Blast has way less moving parts, than say, the Longshot. But.... notice, both older blasters don't really resemble any firearms, for the most part (aside from the obvious, a barrel, a trigger, etc).

And power isn't the only determining factor in blaster's acceptability as being favored. Crossbows don't shoot all that much more than 100 feet, tops. My current 1500 shoots "only" between 60-80 feet. Sure, you want the thing to chuck a dart some distance, but the bottom line is that power isn't really everything, except for little ego-maniacs who validate their worth by how far they can shoot a foam dart. Pathetic.


Most experienced Nerfers don't really give a rip about a blaster's looks (to some degree). As long as the weapon functions well and performs well under a typical organized war condition, then it becomes their blaster of choice. That's the main reason why I gave up on making gimmicky modifications that may be impressive in the laboratory, living room, or Nerf discussion forum, but will fail miserably in any halfway intense Nerf war.


So that said, I still like the Recon, the Longshot, and even the Firefly. But if I am going to war "seriously" (meaning serious fun) with my friends, I'll grab my coupler'ed SuperMaxx 1500 any day.

Gee. Talking about this makes me want to get another Expand-a-Blast. Hm.



-Piney-

[mystefansdontflystraight]

I kind of agree with you, Green Buckshot. Now don't get me wrong, I like old guns just as much as the next person, and some are classics that just can't be replaced. Nothing is as easy to integrate into anything as the AT2k, and nothing has the foam spitting goodness of a RF20. I like the new guns for their swat team look, but consider this.
A Sm5k has similar ranges to a poorly singled titan. I would take the hit on the range, to be able to use it in CERTAIN wars. It is also more ergonomic and, yes, nerf stylish to haul around a rifle looking gun than a freaking bazooka!
The xbow is a bit of a mystery to me. I know that my friend, who now lives in Costa Rica, had one, and I recall that it got really bad ranges. Of course, he hadn't modded it, but I still cannot understand anything about it apart from the cool factor. Unless clipped, it has a poorer rate of fire than the LS, which can be modded to get 100ft ranges. LSs are available at your local TRU, and cost 30$, not the 100$+ one would shell out for an xbow.
I like the mav for it's high rof. But, as you pointed out, there are some guns that cannot be replaced with anything new. A relatively high ROF pistol that gets decent ranges is not a very common thing these days. That's wy people opt for Splitfires.
A good push pull blaster these days is really hard to come by. I know most people hate them for their poor accuracy but who gives a crap when they can blast out 20 pieces of foam each going about 55ft like my Rototrack? There is something about the pushing and pulling of the handle that really is fun.
In conclusion to my longest post yet, maybe apart from my mod write ups, I believe the guns of today are good to satisfy all but the more advanced nerfer's need. Im not pretending to be a seasoned veteran or anything, but I hate it when some person who got validated yesterday goes on and say ZOMG I NEED A XBOW NOW!. Chances are, a Longshot would satisfy your needs. I understand the ones that can't be replaced, but most of the time, a quick trip to TRU will satisfy your needs.
Thanks for reading my huge post.

Edited by mystefansdontflystraight, 07 April 2008 - 05:28 PM.

[CaptainSlug]

I don't really see the point of the argument. Hasbro recycles old parts/patents to make new blasters pretty frequently.
The only thing we are not likely to see from them ever again is a powerful, reliable, and simplistic springer. However those are really not all that difficult to make independent of Hasbro thanks to efforts of Carbon and myself.

[ompa]

The X-bow can be broken in any single place, and be fixed. A Longshot, unless you have the capability to machine parts, cannot. It's the simplicity of old guns that makes them so nice. Plus, the shell of a Crossbow is roomy enough for easy integrations; there are so many Crossbow abominations that integrate so much stuff into it one almost expects the freaking thing to make you a cup of coffee as well as fire a hail of darts.

Crossbows only cost $100 for those who either have no access, or don't look. I've picked up Crossbows at garage sales, rummage sales, and from friends who have them lying in their basements. Seriously, just look around your neighborhood. You'd be surprised how many are still floating around.

In the end though, it's really just how comfortable you are with your gun(s). If you have an old crappy gun, but know how to use it and exactly where it will fire, it will do you better than any crazy-ass new gun that has a high ROF and range if you don't know how to use the real gun.

Some of the older guns just have a following because people are so comfortable with them.

~ompa

[PC III]

Yes, but the Xbow is extremely accurate, the Ls? not so much.

[mystefansdontflystraight]

I agree with the last post. Longshots are innacurate unless angel breeched, which a newbie to modding would not be able to do.
Ompa: I agree with you on the fact that you can get discontinued guns quite easily. I got a sharpshooter 2 for 2$ at a garage sale, a powerclip for 5$ from a friend, and a misslestorm for free from another friend. I have yet to find any trace of a legend gun, such as the Sm5k, or xbow. I will keep looking.
Captain slug: You are right. Older guns can be easily fixed, and I believe that hasbro wants us to buy more guns by making them more complicated, flimsier (recon stock) and harder to repair. I side with the old gun people on these fronts, but if you are getting into modding, don't spend so much on a discontinued gun. Get a simple one such as the NF.

[sam]

THE CROSSBOW IS NOT INSANELY POWERFUL, AND PEOPLE DO NOT BUY THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE.

Let me add a little to that. I think that a lot of those damn noobs that are buying them are buying them because they think they are the "bee's knees" and get awesome performance. I think another reason is because they (the noobs) see the big shots in this community like VACC, OMC and the others using them, and they are trying to emulate them.

[Bomberman]

I think that Ompa summarized it into one post. Like he said, it is'nt always the gun, its how you use it. A noob that just saved up 140$ + for a crossbow and bought it could suck with it in a war, and think it was crap and sell it. A lot of new nerfers could do the same to any gun, but just not realize its potential. You don't need a legendary gun to kick ass. But personally, I love the AT2K. Amazing potential, a fair bit of power, and the size of a pistol? The perfect gun in my book.

[Falcon]

Everyone seems to be on the same page here.

In short, what is "better" is up to your own discretion. I prefer older guns because they're more reliable. If I can mod it in an hour or less and perform well with it at my wars, I'm happy. NF's, you can do that with. I enjoy them. They're not old. Crossbows, you can do that with. I enjoy them. They're old.

The difference? Nothing. The common factor? Simplicity.

So in all honesty, I think the question would perhaps be better phrased as whether or not we prefer complex guns, or simple guns. Personally, I prefer simple guns because I trust them to do their job when playing. Take 2k turrets for example. Stick 'em on ANYTHING and its ROF goes through the roof. And I'll be damned if it doesn't look cool, and was easy as hell to do. But someone who mods for the sake of modding probably won't agree with me because they ENJOY putting together complicated breeches and working with lots of tiny parts. Since that's not my cup of tea, I'll stick to simplicity.

[Captain]

Well, it's hard for me to explain my fascination with older NERF guns. They just look so funny, and colorful. I like my Defender T3 pistol because it looks cool, in my opinion one of the coolest looking NERF pistols around. I like mega darts just because they're different than what I had as a child, growing up with only 2 nerf guns, pocket sized ones no less. I also just like the fact that they're old, it's cool. It's also neat to see the features and nick-nacks they incorporated into guns in the past. And as for crossbows, I don't have one, but a (Modded) big blast would seem just as good to me, in terms of effectiveness.

I don't know exactly what it is, but old guns have a sort of charm that the newer ones lack.

Edited by Captain, 07 April 2008 - 07:00 PM.

[shadowkid33]

(the noobs) see the big shots in this community like VACC, OMC and the others using them, and they are trying to emulate them.

[sarcasm] Yeah, because OMC and Vacc are my heroes. I definatelly try to emulate them [/sarcasm]

No offense to you, Sam, but that's one of the most retarted things I've heard all day. Would I like to have as much Nerf experience as Vacc? Absolutely. Would I like to have the same reputation as Groove? Of course. Would I like to have the ability to eat an entire clan like OMC? Mabye.

Anyway, you get my point. I don't copy other 'legendary' Nerfers ideas because I want to emulate them. I copy their ideas (Groove's Guru, for example. I made one) because they are very effective in a war situation.

[keef]

But so did Cole and look where he is.

Want to know what I like best about the old blasters?

The air-jet series.

Half one color, the other was transparent of that color! Kickass!
They shoot great and look cool! Kickass!
They have jet in there name which reminds me of Hind for PSP where you fly a Hind-D. Kickass!

I also like how they look Nerfy. Nerf is Nerf and nothing less.

[Green-Buckshot]

Keep talking! That's why I did this! I luuuuurve the debate! I love the opinions! Keep it up!

[sam]

[sarcasm] Yeah, because OMC and Vacc are my heroes. I definatelly try to emulate them [/sarcasm]

No offense to you, Sam, but that's one of the most retarted things I've heard all day. Would I like to have as much Nerf experience as Vacc? Absolutely. Would I like to have the same reputation as Groove? Of course. Would I like to have the ability to eat an entire clan like OMC? Mabye.

Anyway, you get my point. I don't copy other 'legendary' Nerfers ideas because I want to emulate them. I copy their ideas (Groove's Guru, for example. I made one) because they are very effective in a war situation.

That quote wasn't really directed at you, nor most crossbow users. It was more toward the OMG OMG I NEEDZ A CROSSBOW PLZ people. Think about it. The reasons the x-bows are so great are for thing most people don't even think about when they just start nerfing. I know I was much more obsessed with performance and status. One of the first blasters I got, with warring in mind, was an AT3K, why? Because CX used/uses one, I figured he had a much better idea of what was a good blaster than I did, so I copied him. Even recently, I thought about making a Guru (I'd been thinking about this since even before I had a x-bow or a SF), why?, because Groove uses one with great success, so I figured it would be good for me. I didn't think about whether or not this type of blaster would actually fit my playing style, which is a major mistake, made most recently by General Cole. Build your blaster around your play style, not the other way around.

Edited by sam, 07 April 2008 - 08:50 PM.

[Galaxy613]

The reason why I got Airtek 2k's instead of going out and buying Nitefinders with the same money was because how easily apparently it was to make them very powerful. My Longshot STILL does not break 50 feet, even with my nitefinder's spring, but my AT2k's completely blow it away with a few simple mods and a 1foot barrel.

[d0nk3y k0n9]

I only have new guns, and I'm perfectly OK with that, as many newer guns are just as good as, if not better than old guns. There are some old guns, however, that I'd just love to have, but I understand that they're not necesarily the best just because they're the oldest, or because some of the really good nerfers use them. I play mostly indoor as well, so I don't need super range, or anything like that, I just need guns that are good enough to accurately hit a target all the way across my basement. For that, all I need is my modded NF, my somewhat modded crossfire (AR's removed, mav spring added, no barrel replacement), or a stock maverick, and some practice. In my opinion, its not what gun you use, its how you use it that counts.

[Galaxy613]

In my opinion, its not what gun you use, its how you use it that counts.

Page two and someone already hits on the head.

[imaseoulman]

Build your blaster around your play style, not the other way around.

Profound words. I've been actively NERFing since 1998 (minus a two-year hiatus from 2003-2005 while I was in Korea). I've never used a crossbow, but I don't think I'd like it. I prefer the feel of an air-tank releasing air over the spring recoil. Part of this is that it's what I'm accustomed to (look at the time I started seriously NERFing). As a kid my favorite gun was the arrow storm. For indoor wars I prefer a DTB, but when it comes to standard outdoor NERFing, nothing beats the SM1500.

Recently I posted a write-up for a beefy SM1500. Much has been said (especially lately) about the importance of simplicity. While I agree that simplicity is extremely important, sometimes adding a bit to a gun can increase it's performance several fold. The air-stock on the SM1500 I recently made performed phenomenally well. The Big Big Blast was also everything I dreamed it would be. I've also grown to love Arachnophobia, but Arachnophobia II still needs some work before it's going to replace my SM1500 as my primary (SMDTG's just don't get the range I crave, I may switch them out for fewer Big Salvo barrels). My point is this:
While simplicity is extremely important in creating a "war-worthy weapon" (how's that for alliteration?), the most important factor is building a blaster around your play style.
I play a lot of CTF with large teams, which causes me to attack bases with several defenders. I need several ready to go shots so that I can eliminate all the players and get the flag before the first guy I shot respawns. The ROF isn't because my aim sucks, but because it's quite good and I just need that many shots to get the job done.
Anyway, now I'm just rambling. Build your gun around your style and try to keep it simple.

[Forsaken angel24]

I prefer the newer guns for a couple of reasons.
Usually when I find/acquire the older guns the plastic is a bit more brittle and easier to break only because of its age.
I do not like working with the plunger heads of certain Nerf guns the likes of the BBB,LnL,RZB, Xbow,Sneakshot,Defender and so on. Its a flimsy rubber skirt that is begging to fold inward over a short period of time and sacrifice the air seal. Even after adding E-tape I know it is a matter of time before they fold inward. This is why I prefer the newer plunger heads with the O rings.

I do like all the new gizmos and moving parts Nerf is coming out with. It gives me more to tinker around with.

[Thom]

I do like all the new gizmos and moving parts Nerf is coming out with. It gives me more to tinker around with.

Hear, hear! The more complex, the more fun to mod. Also, often the more room for improvement.

I imagine a pile containing one of every nerf gun made. Disregarding rarity, cachet, and age, which guns would I pick up and which would I leave? The crossbow would be in the keeper pile, as would the AT2/3K. Probably the manta ray. Maybe the splitfire, LNL, and SM5K. But I know I'd take a LS and a NF, and maybe a TTG for variety. I'd take the magstrike. Good chance I'd take the DTG, and I definitely wouldn't leave the SMDTG. The point: there are plenty of old guns that I will miss, but for sheer number of practical, war-capable guns, the N-Strike series beats the rest.

[shadowkid33]

Well, go to a big Nerf War hosted by someone here on the forums and you will find that WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS long-range spring guns are the only ones which exploit the capability of the terrain. Most large wars are held in an area which have wide, open spaces. Because of this, long-range guns are useful because they allow you to hit an enemy from far away. That is why older guns are so popular, because all of the long-range springers are older.

[Cmdrmack]

The older guns have just had time for the chaff to be separated. Nobody goes hunting for blast-a-balls anymore. And the gator/stinging scarab are certainly rare.

Old nerf guns had plenty of gimmicks. The most gimmick-free that I can think of are the Arrowstorm and the Ballzooka, both of which were upheld as great guns in their time.

This generation has the simplicity of the Nitefinder, which is why we have turned it into an almost standard issue sidearm. So far we've not seen much else with tha kind of popularity, but eventually the crap guns will fall away into oblivion and others will take their place among the legends of the past.

I think the Longshot will end up in this category, and maybe the Hornet. But we'll see.

[Shrub]

I think when noobs just beg for a XBow even though it has a very good reputation they are being a hypocrit big time. IF YOU LIKE A GUN LIKE IT BECAUSE YOU'VE USED AND LIKE THE PREFORMANCE,ECT.