41 replies to this topic

[bogboogalars]

Hey I was surfing youtube the other day and I found the .577 t-rex it's made for elephants but it kill at both ends, it has 11100 foot pounds of force with a 750 grain bullet...it's a beast.Linky

And also I found the 60 caliber pistol.
Other Linky

[jwasko]

700 Nitro Express, 1000 Grains.

I Win.

[bogboogalars]

God have mercy on that guys shoulder...

Edit: Actually I believe I win....577 2000 grain

Edited by bogboogalars, 03 April 2008 - 08:56 PM.

[keef]

Holy shit, 4 gauge shotguns. Shotting a 12 gauge was nothing, but a 4 might blow your shoulder off.

Muskets are hXc though, blow off your whole leg. Whose with me?

[bogboogalars]

I believe it would blow more than your leg off...like half of you gone.

[jwasko]

WHat does hXc mean?
Apparently, hardcore.

But, anyway, what kind of muskets are you talking about? The Brown Bess (used by the British) was generally a .75 caliber, I believe. Now, that's going to be pretty heavy, but black powder burns much more slowly than modern smokeless powders and so there is much less pressure to accelerate the projectile.

Here (warning: PDF), it says a 545gr .715 cal. bullet can achieve 1200 feet per second out of a Brown Bess

[http://www.militaryf...tables.asp]Here[/url] it says an M1 (with 174 grain .30-06 bullet) can achieve 2675 feet per second.

So as you can see, the smaller but modern cartridge better speed while being less massive. It's a bit of a trade-off.

If anyone wants to calculate the resulting forces from those, we can get a more exact comparison, but I'm betting that they'll be about equal in terms of just the force at the muzzle...maybe the M1 will even be greater.

Edit: I would, but I have to study for a Physics test (the irony!) on magnetism. Seriously, who needs to know about magnetism? (Sarcasm there)

Edited by jwasko, 04 April 2008 - 05:54 PM.

[keef]

Umm... The people who make refrigerators need to know about magnetism.

Forget the math dude. Too technical, it hurts my head.

The force of the round ammo in a musket, would blow off an arm because... Well, first they shot pretty close up, the Civil War times were intense with bayonets and shit, and the action was in your face. The close distance and force of a bigger object into arm= no arm.

Also, the bullets were lead, making infection, or that stuff kill you if the bleeding didn't.

[jwasko]

Umm... The people who make refrigerators need to know about magnetism.

Yeah, but who cares about them? I mean, seriously....We should all just eat our food fresh. (<--Sarcasm)

Also, the bullets were lead, making infection, or that stuff kill you if the bleeding didn't.

...They're all lead. Well, aside from the oddball here or there, maybe. That's why they're called full metal jacket. It's like they're wearing a cozy copper/nickel coat!

[Galaxy613]

Pfft, whatever. Chuck Norris can use these guns with one hand. He can even dual wield them.

[eddieoctane]

You do know that rifles that big are almost impossible to aim, right?

Anyway, everyone and their mom know that Mr. Norris carries a railgun.

And for the record, that isn't rocket propulsion, that's metal flying off the round in a plasma state. And the fireball at the end is purely the heat generated from kinetic damage. A version 4x more powerful is already in development, and an 8x stronger version (one shown rated at 8 megajoules) may be deployed as early as 2012.

And for those who want a comparison, 8 MJ is about 6 million lb*ft, while the .700 Nitro Express is about 8,900 lb*ft. Expected performance on ship mounted guns is 5m target radius at 200 nautical miles and nearly 14,000 mph.

Never said anything had to be hand-held.

[Quilan Fett]

The title makes no sense. The elephant guns own anyone? Does this mean you think of elephant guns as a supreme deity?

[Thom]

I guess if I were hunting elephants, I'd appreciate having one of those rounds. But wow, that's a lot of recoil.

I also didn't know that the Brown Bess fired that kind of load! The muzzle velocity was much slower, but that still must have had a nasty kick. It sort of puts into perspective the common modern perception of .50 cal as huge (nonwithstanding the above giga-shells).

The title makes no sense. The elephant guns own anyone? Does this mean you think of elephant guns as a supreme deity?

You'll notice that no one else felt the need to be pedantic.

[bogboogalars]

The title makes no sense. The elephant guns own anyone? Does this mean you think of elephant guns as a supreme deity?

No but the guns i posted in the first post were "Elephant" guns, or guns used to kill elephants.

[OfAllTheNerf]

Pfft, whatever. Chuck Norris can use these guns with one hand. He can even dual wield them.

When Chuck Norris pees he clogs the toilet.

Anyways, I've seen this before, it a was a link while I was watching the world's fastest reload or something. Pretty insane stuff.

[Silencer]

Those are pretty crazy guns. I love the song that goes along with it, for the Elephant one.

[Uncle Hammer]

WHat does hXc mean?
Apparently, hardcore.

But, anyway, what kind of muskets are you talking about? The Brown Bess (used by the British) was generally a .75 caliber, I believe. Now, that's going to be pretty heavy, but black powder burns much more slowly than modern smokeless powders and so there is much less pressure to accelerate the projectile.

Here (warning: PDF), it says a 545gr .715 cal. bullet can achieve 1200 feet per second out of a Brown Bess

Here it says an M1 (with 174 grain .30-06 bullet) can achieve 2675 feet per second.

So as you can see, the smaller but modern cartridge better speed while being less massive. It's a bit of a trade-off.

If anyone wants to calculate the resulting forces from those, we can get a more exact comparison, but I'm betting that they'll be about equal in terms of just the force at the muzzle...maybe the M1 will even be greater.

Edit: I would, but I have to study for a Physics test (the irony!) on magnetism. Seriously, who needs to know about magnetism? (Sarcasm there)

I think it would be a safe bet to say the .30-06 has more stopping power. It's just a guess because I don't know the mass of that ammunition of the top of my head.

[jwasko]

"Grains" is a measure of mass; 1 grain = 0.06479891 grams

So, the .715 cal. bullet has a mass of 35.32 grams (or 545 grains) and the 30-06 is 11.28 grams (or 174 grains).

[bogboogalars]

But wouldn't the 30-06 still have more stopping power because of the more or less...no wait more than twice the power of the other one?

[Uncle Hammer]

I thought grains referred to the powder content, not the mass of the actual projectile. The stopping power all depends on the mass of the projectile and the velocity. The two items we're comparing could have similar stopping powers because the brown bess has a bigger projectile but a slower velocity, but the .30-06 has less projectile mass and more velocity. If the grains is a a measure of the projectile then the brown bess has a force of 423 newtons, while the .30-06 would have a force of 301 newtons. So if grains is a mesure of the actual projectile itself and not the powder content then the brown bess has more stopping power. However I think grains is powder content vs grams of the projectile.

[jwasko]

Trust me, "grains" is a measure of mass. 1 grain of powder is the same as 1 grain of lead is the same as 1 grain of my brains.

I'm guessing that you are thinking that a grain means one granule of powder. I thought this too, but "grains" is just an old measure of mass. If you don't believe me, perhaps you will believe Wikipedia?

Also, just because I'm curious...what equation did you use to find the force. I know F=ma, of course, but I can't remember any equations that directly relate velocity to force (without knowing a time interval and change in velocity, of course).

In any case, then, we see that a Brown Bess (at least) can have substantially larger force than an M1 Garand. Thanks for the help, Uncle Hammer.

Edit: As a side note, 545 grains would be way too much powder to put into even a Brown Bess. That one link only shows about 140 grains of powder in a Brown Bess. And, I know that I usually shoot 80-100 out of a muzzle loader (which, is I think, .54 cal.). Finally, .45-70 government cartridges got 70 grains of blackpowder...but only about 12 or 15 grains of modern smokeless powder.

Edited by jwasko, 04 April 2008 - 11:19 PM.

[Green-Buckshot]

hXc is not so much hardcore but straight-edge, which is an offshoot. It represents a lifestyle free of drugs and alcohol. And some other stuff.

[jwasko]

hXc is not so much hardcore but straight-edge, which is an offshoot. It represents a lifestyle free of drugs and alcohol. And some other stuff.

Oh, I get it, now: hXc isn't hardcore with an "X" for extra coolness...it's a cross product! Silly me.

Don't forget the right hand rule!

(Image credit goes to xkcd.com)

Edited by jwasko, 04 April 2008 - 11:03 PM.

[Eboreg]

To compare the power of several cartridges, the .577 Tyrannosaur produces a maximum of 10,180 foot-pounds of energy. The .700 Nitro Express produces a maximum of 14,374 foot-pounds of energy. The .50 BMG, the most powerful US Military cartridge produces a maximum of 14,896 foot-pounds of energy. The 14.5x114 mm, the most powerful Russian-made cartridge, produces a maximum of 23,700 foot-pounds of energy. So, one wonders why there are no videos of people falling while firing that cartridge.

[deaddumpster]

Guys, either way elephant guns may cause slight discomfort, loss of limbs and even death. It really doesn't make a difference with how many grains a bullet has. I'm no mathematician, but won't any of them kill you either way?

[angelof DEATH182]

Guys, either way elephant guns may cause slight discomfort, loss of limbs and even death. It really doesn't make a difference with how many grains a bullet has. I'm no mathematician, but won't any of them kill you either way?

Yes, but an elephant gun round makes whatever it hits EXPLODE.
THEREFORE, elephant gun rounds win, FOR EVER.
(Until a real working bolter is made, then that wins, FOR EVER)