57 replies to this topic

[pulletman]

smeagolsaur, on Mar 26 2008, 08:27 AM, said:

pulletman, on Mar 26 2008, 09:31 AM, said:

A lot of people think we are right wing gun nuts and terrorists because we play with toy blasters. Well,

haha.

People think guys who play with toy blasters are nerds not terrorists.

That too. However, that is what most people who are under 30, then you... aww fuck forget it I have 2 huge ass projects (with no work done) due tomorrow

[nerfnerd88]

2).

Edited by nerfnerd88, 26 March 2008 - 05:32 PM.

[dart]

1. nerf blasters do not make soldiers and make kids join hte armed forces,Some people are naturalry instilled with the flame for that stuff like me .
2.i have no problem with real guns.
3. nerf guns do not instill violence in kid's there more of a toy to them than a dagerous bad thing.
4. as the the femi-nazi thing i know pleanty of girls who will
pick a blaster and start shooting things just for the heck of it.So femi-nazis in all are just full of themselves and just want to be better than men.

Edited by dart, 27 March 2008 - 11:22 AM.

[ChiliPepperFender]

Captain, on Mar 26 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

Think of it this way. If children who play with NERF guns ever have to be soldiers, they will already have basic skills with weapons and stuff, although I don't think that it is hasbro's intention to train future soldiers.

Are you serious? Playing with nerf guns will not give any skills that has to do with weapons or firearms. Other than the fact of pulling the trigger.

[CaptainSlug]

This thread is dumb. And the OP's friends are dumb.

Captain, on Mar 26 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

If children who play with NERF guns ever have to be soldiers, they will already have basic skills with weapons and stuff.

No they won't. Using a toy firearm or a simulated firearm in a video game are not even comparable to using a real firearm.

Most boys like guns. Hence why GI Joe has been a huge success.
Most girls like dolls. Hence why Barbie has been a huge success.

The people who are afraid of guns and video game violence almost always have absolutely no first hand experience with firearms. They are ignorant fearmongers trying to shift the blame from human action onto inanimate objects.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 27 March 2008 - 08:13 AM.

[imaseoulman]

CaptainSlug, on Mar 27 2008, 07:06 AM, said:

No they won't. Using a toy firearm or a simulated firearm in a video game are not even comparable to using a real firearm.

I'm almost embarassed to say this, but Slug, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Intuitively, I would agree with you (I have taken a few gun safety courses and I occassionally shoot at targets/pigeons), but research has shown that soldiers that played shoot-em-up games actually do perform better than those without that experience. Also, the military does use video games to train soldiers (including to shoot and kill).

I know it sounds ridiculous, and I'll look for scholarly support on the first claim I made, but the second is just a fact and anybody who bothers searching can find several documented cases of it.

But really, is NERFing going to help me escort a group of civillians to safe territory from behind enemy lines? Not very much. It may help with things like alertness and reflexes, but even basketball will do that.

[themessiahpsg1]

absolutely. guns are meant to kill people. but guns do not kill people, people do.
guns are fun to play with, and i don't see anything wrong with pre-influencing our kids into future soldiers.

"What choice did the gun have? it sure as hell didn't pull its own trigger, that would be masturbation."
-Lev Gregorivich Kolsevi

[slowguitarman]

themessiahpsg1, on Mar 27 2008, 10:53 AM, said:

absolutely. guns are meant to kill people. but guns do not kill people, people do.
guns are fun to play with, and i don't see anything wrong with pre-influencing our kids into future soldiers.

"What choice did the gun have? it sure as hell didn't pull its own trigger, that would be masturbation."
-Lev Gregorivich Kolsevi

That's an awesome quote. I don't think guns are meant to kill people, though. Guns are meant to shoot things. People decide what to shoot, whether it be people or animals or even paper.

[CaptainSlug]

imaseoulman, on Mar 27 2008, 09:09 AM, said:

CaptainSlug, on Mar 27 2008, 07:06 AM, said:

No they won't. Using a toy firearm or a simulated firearm in a video game are not even comparable to using a real firearm.

I'm almost embarassed to say this, but Slug, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Intuitively, I would agree with you (I have taken a few gun safety courses and I occassionally shoot at targets/pigeons), but research has shown that soldiers that played shoot-em-up games actually do perform better than those without that experience.

There's a significant difference in the causation in the question I answered and the type of study you are referring to.

Kids that are allowed to play with toy guns typically also have parents that aren't overtly squeemish about guns. And therefore those parent also wouldn't steer their children away from learning firearm safety. But those toy guns did not directly contribute to any skills useful for handling REAL firearms.
The toys only set a basis of interest that made the child more receptive to learning the REAL skills later on.

Toy guns and video games cannot teach you:
+ Proper sight usage (most Nerf guns lack sights altogether)
+ Breathing control
+ How to manage recoil
+ Proper trigger control
+ Proper care and maintenance to minimize jams or lock-ups
+ etc.

If a video game included those it would be painfully boring. If a toy gun included those no kid would play with it.

imaseoulman, on Mar 27 2008, 09:09 AM, said:

Also, the military does use video games to train soldiers (including to shoot and kill).

They do not use them for firearms or marksmanship training. They use them for equipment and squad skill training. There are video game training programs for police officers that involve fake guns, but those are training for reaction time, critical thinking in a stressful situation, and the basics of negotiation with suspects. It is also not meant for training marksmanship. That is done on a firing range.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 27 March 2008 - 01:19 PM.

[Pineapple]

Trevor, on Mar 26 2008, 03:56 AM, said:

I'm just curious as to what you all at Nerfhaven think about this.

I think that most everyone who posted something on this thread (including myself) ought to go out into the sunshine and fresh air and run around awhile with your blasters.


These threads seem to be the product of staying indoors in front of a computer too long.


I agree with Captain Slug. While seoulman says that playing video shoot-um-up games tends to condition potential soldiers to be somewhat conditioned to violent situations, handling a Scout and then handling even a .22LR semiautomatic pistol are so far apart.

1) Weight. Some kids can't even hold up a 9mm pistol with one hand. Try carrying a .45 ACP pistol in a leg holster with 4 loaded magazines. It gets a bit heavy after awhile! That's why load-bearing vests are so vital for combat operators who carry 5 times as much ammunition.

2) Recoil, even with a .22LR. It takes some getting used to. Worse of course as the caliber goes up.

3) Report. Everyone forgets that firearms are pretty darn LOUD, and many soldiers must be conditioned to become accustomed to gun reports without flinching. That's why so many soldiers are coming home with hearing damage.

4) Shockwave. Fire a .357 Magnum, .44 Special, or .44 Magnum, and you will feel a distinct shockwave that makes your hair jump.

5) Aiming realities. I laugh when I hear of claims of 1" groups with a gun @ average 25 yard ranges. Unless they were benchrested on sandbags for stabilization. It's just plain hard to aim any firearm free handed, unless one practices regularly (as in weekly). Once I stopped going to the range weekly, my groups got downright crappy.


Back to the question... you know what's a real hoot about this? Five years ago, when NERF brand blasters were mainly the SuperMaxx line up, the ones that looked like shapeless alien objects, I recall the tone of forums was "I wish the blasters looked more like 'real guns'."

Then the AirTech lineup came out, and things were looking a bit up... vaguely more like paintball markers, but a step in the right direction. The NiteFinder was a nice surprise for those of us who had only AT1000s and SM250s and 350s for spring pistols (which were all ugly and had bad ranges).

In the last couple years, with the "N-Strike" lineup came out, everyone's dreams were realized with the Scout, the Firefly, and then the Longshot, Recon, and soon-to-be-released Vulcan. More like 'real guns'.

Now you guys sit around the fireplace and discuss THIS?


Actually, what you discuss among yourselves shouldn't matter much anyway since Hasbro doesn't look at NerfHaven as the only market source. I still think that Hasbro's product designers knew that kids were drooling for Airsoft, but many couldn't because of minimum age requirements. Designing blasters to be similar to, but not exactly, like firearms fills the bill for youthful enthusiasts who are too young or immature for Airsoft.


You know, I'm old, but when I was a kid, we played Cowboys and Indians. Cops and Robbers. Americans versus ______________ (fill in your enemy of choice). But I grew up to be a gainfully employed, God-fearing, financially stable married parent. I build up NERF blasters for my children (son and daughter) and their friends (and their parents) to have a rip-roaring good time with lots of laughs and spent energy. We don't even think about "potential to make soldiers" or "violence and masculinity" or "men are powerful".


Dude. You need to make new friends.



-Piney-

[Cheese-Boy]

"The National Rifle Association says, guns don't kill people, people do. but i think the gun helps. you can't just run up to some one and go BANG! they'd have to be really dodgy on the heart for that." - Eddie Izzard (Dressed To Kill)

any ways, Nerf is fun, and paint ball is fun too. Air soft is getting a little too close... but i've found that a real gun still scares me. i like playing with guns if i know they aren't going to hurt any one. we like shooting stuff. but it's in the case of when you point, and pull, and a life is gone, THATS a bit too much for me to handle.

i think there is a huge difference between firing obviously slow and bright happy darts with bright colorful sci-fi looking plastic guns, then insta-hit body piercing, lead and death inducing super arms.

nerf is cool. a real gun is not so much. some times necessary, but definitely not cool.

[Omega]

1) Think about all the school shootings recently. At V-Tech, 32 people died because nobody on campus had a gun. Contrast that with this: Santee, California. A gunman begins shooting his fellow high school students. As the principal later told CNN, the school promptly activated its "safe-school" plan, which didn't involve anybody having a gun. Instead, they sent in a "trained campus supervisor", unarmed. (Would that really deter him? Stop, or I'll call a trained campus supervisor!) As you may have guessed, the gunman promptly shot the "trained campus supervisor". Luckily, an armed San Diego PD officer was taking his daughter to school that day. He pulled his gun on the attacker and held him captive until reinforcements could arrive. Two dead. Guns are necessary. Consider this: in most parts of the nation, the 911 response time is about 9 minutes. You can wait 9 minutes while the maniac is raping your daughter, right? No? Buy a gun.
2) No. I know a kid- a "drug baby" as some people say. He is routinely violent, and has serious behavioral problems. Same for his younger brother. I don't know about Nerf, but they routinely play M-rated video games like Gears of War, and many more violent than that. The kids are about 10 and 8 years old. But the kids are predisposed to violence. I would argue that violent children might play Nerf because they are violent, instead of being violent because they Nerf.
3) I prefer the older lines- screw realism, the other guns work better. The X-bow isn't very realistic, but it is a better gun.
4) Men and women are inherently different. I was raised by a mother who was basically led to believe that boys and girls are the same- if you raise boys in a feminized environment, they will grow up identical to their sisters. She believed that (and raised me accordingly) up until the day I picked up a Barbie doll in a daycare full of girls, held her by the arms held out in front of her, pointed the doll feet-first at various objects in the room shouting, "Pew! Pew! Pew! GUN!" I'm well adjusted. I'm safe around firearms. I'm not a violent person. I'm just different.
5) Laser tag, Nerf, Paintball, Airsoft- they're all similar. I can understand parents getting much more antsy around AS and PB than Nerf, but still, come on. As long as the kids know what they're dealing with, it's fine.


Also, that video is made of fail and bullcrap. Honestly, local news is retarded- all they want to do is fearmonger to boost their pathetic ratings. They make it sound so damn menacing they never notice it's just kids shooting foam at each other.

[themessiahpsg1]

4) Shockwave. Fire a .357 Magnum, .44 Special, or .44 Magnum, and you will feel a distinct shockwave that makes your hair jump.

Boy howdy, I remember my first .357. i had long hair that swept back after that.

but yes, firearms were designed to kill things, and nowadays, to kill people. but they're just tools of killing. there are plenty of other ways to kill someone, and firearms just happens to involve the least skill.

firearms were designed and improved mostly during times of conflict.

guns do kill people, but only when they're forced to do so. they are slaves, so to speak.

[slowguitarman]

themessiahpsg1, on Mar 28 2008, 08:25 AM, said:

but yes, firearms were designed to kill things,

I didn't say they weren't meant to kill things, I just said that they aren't necessarily meant to kill people.

[pwnchu]

Personally, the big difference between Nerf and real guns is that when you aim at someone and pull the trigger with a toy gun, your intent is to have fun playing with your friends. A real gun, and your intent is to kill. There's a very thick line between the two, which many people don't seem to realize.

And plenty of girls play with my nerf group at church.

[privateer]

Guns ARE fun and cool. What else else is new?

[LastManAlive]

sputnik, on Mar 26 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

Qui'lan Fett, on Mar 26 2008, 10:22 AM, said:

5) You know how you watch that cop movie with your friends.

Key word here.
MOVIES DON'T MATCH REAL LIFE.

That would be "Key WORDS here".

About movies though, it just proves how fake they really are. Watch any James Bond movie...I'm almost sure that no Walther P99 holds more than 50 shots. Its as if the good guys get unlimited ammo or something. They'll all haxxing.

[sputnik]

LastManAlive, on Apr 1 2008, 02:31 PM, said:

sputnik, on Mar 26 2008, 01:25 PM, said:

Qui'lan Fett, on Mar 26 2008, 10:22 AM, said:

5) You know how you watch that cop movie with your friends.

Key word here.
MOVIES DON'T MATCH REAL LIFE.

That would be "Key WORDS here".

About movies though, it just proves how fake they really are. Watch any James Bond movie...I'm almost sure that no Walther P99 holds more than 50 shots. Its as if the good guys get unlimited ammo or something. They'll all haxxing.

The key word is in bold.
movie

[Djorn]

(hate to break up the one liners and quote chains)

I think this is kinda fun.

1) What do you think of real guns?
I think real guns are kind of scary. The tools of the trade are the tools of the trade... nooses, electric chairs, gas chambers, guillotines, ICBS, swords, and guns etc. They are designed/invented to kill people. It isn't something to be taken lightly.

2) Do you think that nerf guns promote gun related violence?
No, I do not. I think poor gun education leads to gun related violence. People who don't understand what it means to take away life shouldn't have guns. The for the same reasons why doctors take an oath to do no harm. A medical doctor has the potential to jack someone up far more then a gun can.

3) What is your opinion on the newer more "realistic" N-strike lineup?
I think there freaking sweet! I think Nerf guns are awesome and the more life like the better, to a point.

4) Nerf is generally considered a toy for boys, so alot of feminists think that toy guns promote the whole "men are powerful" idea in young boys, do you think this is true?
I answered all the other questions so I could answer this one. NO I don't think so .. At WWU, there is a nerf club (they meet in a lecture hall Saturday nights), and about there is about a 3:4 girl/guy ratio. Alot of them got in on the etoys magstrike sale awhile back, so things are pretty intense.

5) What do you think about guns in general( EDIT: nerf, airsoft, paintball, laser)?
Lasers are the best. the only thing that can beat sharks with laser guns on their foreheads are dolphins with mirrors on their heads, and where are you going to find one of those.

(maybe i shouldn't start to get snarky with my 3rd post)

Edited by Djorn, 01 April 2008 - 05:45 PM.

[Bomberman]

This topic is getting annoying. But I will sum it up. Guns were and still are meant as tools. Tools can be used for many different things. Nerf guns are DESIGNED to look like real guns, but are a sheer novelty, and they look like real guns because 4ht grade kids like the army, and guns, and pretend to "kill" with a nerf gun. That is just how kids "play" nowadays". I know, because maybe 4 or 5 years ago, when I was in the fourth grade, we would yell horrible curses that we had no idea what they meant at recess and "shoot" each other with out hands in the shape of a pistol and make gun sounds. Mainly I think this topic is dumb because I own a .30-06 and a 22LR rifle, the 22 I hunt small game and take to the range, and I hunted a wild boar in California last year with my .30-06. Meant as a TOOL. And that boar made the best bacon ever by the way. Will Piney, or OMC, or VACC please close this topic?

[Omega]

A side note: Djorn made a very good point that poor gun education causes violence. A group of researchers put two groups of children into a room with an unloaded gun in it (hidden among beanbag chairs) and told them to set up the chairs and wait for the researchers. One group was the control- ordinary kids. The other group had been put through the NRA-sponsored Eddie Eagle gun safety program. As soon as the Eddie Eagle kids found the gun, they backed away, greatly alarmed, kept each other away from the gun, and notified the researchers. Contrast with the ordinary kids. As soon as the ordinary kids found the gun, they picked it, pulling the hammer back, pointing it at each other, and pulling the trigger.

EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN.

[angrscottishkid]

I think the question you should be asking is, aren't guns already cool? Just kidding(not really). Also nerf isnt teaching us anything, they market to little kids, who are much more impressionable than middle aged men. Most little boys already love guns, just because their little boys, and nerf is just a parent apprpoved alternative.

[Galaxy613]

Omega, on Apr 1 2008, 09:38 PM, said:

EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN.

Parents need to learn that.

[pulletman]

imaseoulman, on Mar 27 2008, 07:09 AM, said:

CaptainSlug, on Mar 27 2008, 07:06 AM, said:

No they won't. Using a toy firearm or a simulated firearm in a video game are not even comparable to using a real firearm.

I'm almost embarassed to say this, but Slug, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Intuitively, I would agree with you (I have taken a few gun safety courses and I occassionally shoot at targets/pigeons), but research has shown that soldiers that played shoot-em-up games actually do perform better than those without that experience. Also, the military does use video games to train soldiers (including to shoot and kill).

I know it sounds ridiculous, and I'll look for scholarly support on the first claim I made, but the second is just a fact and anybody who bothers searching can find several documented cases of it.

But really, is NERFing going to help me escort a group of civillians to safe territory from behind enemy lines? Not very much. It may help with things like alertness and reflexes, but even basketball will do that.

Exactly

[Djorn]

pulletman, on Apr 1 2008, 10:18 PM, said:

Exactly

I played this game quite extensively a few years back on some of its older versions. If nerfing and this game has taught me anything about gun violence or modern warfare, it would be that in the real world I be very dead, very fast.

Edited by Djorn, 02 April 2008 - 12:43 AM.