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Working On Grenades

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#26 Jappo

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 01:45 AM

this is going in the way of just using buck-shot from guns, which is not gonna be all that great for getting people in cover. Gernades in the army use explosives to fire shrapnel, so in this case we can't use explosives to fire foam bits because of obvious melting flesh issues. So in this sence we have to rethink the intire gernade idea. Which brings you back to what paintballers have made, which is kinda pathetic considering how much enginering goes into paintballing. Gernades are just to hard to make. The cheapest thing you could get is a spring loaded film canister, and even that would be a bit hard to do. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from trying to make 'em, but as I was saying to Nello awhile back, if the idea of a nerf gernade was easily possible you think someone would have made them already. Hopefully someone will be able to think of an ingenious way to make cheap, working, safe gernades. Also instead of working on gernades that actually fire foam, you could maybe work on stuff the would make urban SWAT tactics easier, for example some sort of Smoke Gernade (A flour filled film canister). Good luck to everyone.

PS Love the 3D Gun/Gernade Designs, they look so damn cool.
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#27 taita cakes

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 02:14 AM

well i take all your points quite well, but lets just say, "NO!", some things u have said is quite wrong, some can be avoided and some do not play a major role, i would love to show you all this and i really really want to but i cbf getting my dads laptop out opening it all and opening flash mx and bothering to animate it all, maybe tomoro night....

when u also mention teh even spread of schrapnel you also forgot hte design where you have the two spring propelled ones with no caps on and a rubber band tightly holding the two face to face so that a slight movement or bump will catapult the two everywhich way and there fore "unleash the fury"
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#28 Alexthebeast

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 09:14 AM

You would be better off just firing the shrapnel from whatever you're using to fire the grenade.

No, because then you would have to weight them all and it would just be a pain in the ass. Pop this sucker off over their head as all this shrapnel comes down, and they will die.
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#29 Mantis

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 01:17 PM

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from trying to make 'em, but as I was saying to Nello awhile back, if the idea of a nerf gernade was easily possible you think someone would have made them already. Hopefully someone will be able to think of an ingenious way to make cheap, working, safe gernades.

You are pretty smart there buddy. Here we are, trying to actually come up with a design for a grenade. I've heard some pretty ingenious ideas here, some that weren't mentioned in previous threads about 'nades. And then you come along, and passive aggressively try to tell us it wont work.
As for no one ever making a good one before, the nerf community hasn't been around for generations. Hell, it's only been around 15 years maybe? Thats just a random guess, so correct me if I'm wrong. Even though a lot has been done in those 15 years, a lot can still be accomplished. We are sitting on the brink of a new discovery here, gentlemen.
Imagine what it felt like when the space program was just started. I'm positive they were told it couldn't be done.
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#30 Jappo

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 01:58 PM

Look i'm not trying to discourage anyone, sorry if I did. Just pointing a fact out. But you have to admit, paintball has much more money going into new technology, and the last thing that I saw of a paintball gernade looked like a whoopie cushion. I also think making a paint gernade is a little easier then making a Nerf type gernade. I hope that someone does make a gernade, that would be sweet. Even i'm working on a couple ideas, so if a breakthrough comes it would be great. Sorry for being so negative about trying to make it, its just that to have too high expectations for this idea, and then have it fail(not saying it will). Set your expectations low, because when you succed it is good, and when you fail you don't feel so bad. Good luck to anyone who make a gernade because we would show up those paintballers with their crappy whoopie cushions.
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#31 Alexthebeast

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 07:16 PM

Tonight, I am gonna use some old trigger springs and make a nade... I hope it works
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#32 Zero Talent

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 07:20 PM

Yeah, it's funny, because they've modified their ammo to work in liquid and solid form... You'd think they'd have something cool by now. But "Whoopie Cushion" designs still get the job done, I hear, so feh. They just look ugly.

I'm suprised the Nerf community is this far, considering the vast majority is 12-years-old (Or so a recent poll said). But we still have a lot of room to grow to catch up with what our materials offer us.

Meanwhile, with the cord detonation; The entire idea is that you can just have a separate device to grab the cord and stop it, at the push of a button or pull of a trigger. Otherwise useage is stupid beyond analog. :P

If you can get that scotch tape trigger working perfectly, then we have our solution. But I haven't had the best of luck when relying on adhesives to do anything other than stick to things.
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#33 THIRST

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 09:24 PM

Very nice ZERO, you've sparked an idea...Well, you had some prety nice plans drawn up, fairly complicated, and seemed like some parts were hard to get. You gave me a really simple idea...

Basically, its a long, tube of 1/2 inch pvc. Make it as long as you like, preferrably about 1 foot long.
At both ends of the tube are endcaps, both with holes. The back end has an endcap with a small hole to put a tire stem valve. At the top, a small pump from an old and broken switch shots ultra with a sawed off handle will go. Im going to take a wooden dowel and glue it on to the pumphead. The wooden dowel should be 10 inches. This is the firing valve.
Drill holes on all sides of the top half of the pvc. In the holes, glue some small vinal tubing, connected to 1 barrel. Make about 10 of these holes and barrels, and cut 10 vinal tubing sections into the approriate length. Glue these small barrels all around the grenade in all directions.

Ok, so now we have a very thin pump with the pumphead the inner diameter of 1/2 inch pvc, 2 endcaps with small holes drilled in them, a 1 foot piece of 1/2 inch pvc with 10 holes drilled into it, 10 barrels connected by vinal tubing from the holes glued all over your nade, and a tire stem valve.

Attach a small string to the top of the firing rod. Glue the other end of the string to a small bolt. Now attach a small circle witha hole in it the size of your bolt so you can feed the bolt thruough it. Attach that circle to wherever on your nade makes the string taught.

Take the tire stem valve tip and stick it thruogh the back endcap, and glue all that to the back of the pvc. Stick your firing rod half-way into the pvc, with about 4 inches sticking out. now place the other endcap over that, and whalla, a nade.

To prime, push the firing rod in untill about 3-4 inches is sticking out, place the bolt in so the string is taught and the firing rod cannot go backwards. Now pump once or twice. There should be pressure on the firing rod, but no air should leak. Load each barrel with a dart. To fire, just pull the bolt. It will take a few seconds for the nade to fire its shrapnel because the air is forcing the pumphead up with the firing rod, and because its the same inner diameter, there is so much friction, that it takes a few seconds to move the pumphead up far enough for the holes, releasing air, and it fires. feedback would be nice, as Im planning on making this thing.
sorry for no pics, must be very hard to understand, if you understand try and make a drawing of it, but i gotta go to bed, cya.
****NOTE****
All of the holes must be roughly the same level or it will not work, becuase all the air will go to the lowest holes.
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#34 Alexthebeast

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 10:43 PM

YAY! I jsut made a working Nade, basic, for testing porposes. It is fully functional, but only for throwing until I make a launcher as i said above. The shrapel (3/4" stefans) goes about 10 feet in all directions. T'morrow i will make a Fireworks diagram of it, but for now I need sleep. You will all be very amused.
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#35 wtrent10

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 10:52 PM

what's a nade???
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#36 Alexthebeast

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 11:01 PM

Wow....
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#37 Langley

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Posted 30 November 2003 - 11:55 PM

With all this talk about launching the grenade, maybe I should finish working on Redeemer v2.0. ::Grabs blowtorch::
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#38 Jappo

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 01:19 AM

Good job Alexthebeast. Just tell us when you get hit by the shrapnel if you can actually feel it.

Wtrent10 a 'nade is a Gernade for short.
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#39 Alexthebeast

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 02:56 PM

Oh, you definateley feel it, it feels like getting hit by a modded lnl if they are close enough.
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#40 sporkboyofjustice

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 04:02 PM

This is all a bit much for me. What about going oldschool American Gladiators style and just use tennis balls as grenades. You could also use water balloons if weather permits, if the guy has water on him he took a hit, simple as that. You could of course get an m-80 and stuff it inside a tennis ball full of foam that is held together some how. I would suggest using rubber cement, coat both halves of the ball with it an allow it to dry, fill halves with foam and an m-80 in the middle with the fuse coming out of the ball. Put the halves together and there you go.

Unfortunately this is a very dangerous and painfull option but part of it might inspire someone to do something better. Speaking of remote detonation they have those little RC cars that you can find for $5 now. Anyway what if you took one of those and used it for some kind of remote control detonation device. The stearing would be like a mini servo that you could use to pull a pin or trigger something else. Just a thought.
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#41 Alexthebeast

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 04:05 PM

actually have thought about haveing used servos to make darts "rain" from tees onto unsuspecting victims.
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#42 THIRST

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 09:04 PM

As I presumed, no one understood my idea...wheres ZERO when you need him?

Someone read my design over carefully and tell me what you think, if your going to be lazy I dont think you should bother being in this topic...with that in mind, you can tell how desperate I am ... :ph34r:
(I also recognize that I cant even make a drawing of it...so thats laziness on my part...but o well...)
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#43 Alexthebeast

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 09:08 PM

I get it, and I like the dowel-stem trigger thing, but I thinkit is rather impractical.
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#44 Zero Talent

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Posted 01 December 2003 - 11:39 PM

"j0"

http://www.geocities.../thirstnade.txt

Sans the cord locking system (I hope that one was obvious, guys), and with absolutely no idea why you're using a dowel, is this anywhere close to the idea? Oh, I also left out the vinyl because... Well, I forgot... Pretty much the same thing, just different connections :P (right?).

My only issue with your idea, at least as I see it, is dimensions. The above model is actually 10", not 12". 12" would be... Insanely large. I'd just go for larger diameter piping, and make a pump piston out of a rubber washer. But it has potentially to be a simple, working grenade.

Also, if you were able to get a sealed statocyst barrel design (unlike mine, whose foam allows air to leak somewhat past the foam), you could use multiple layers. My only issue is the long length of the grenade, and the max 8-directional fire (On 1/2" PVC, with 1/4" brass barrels).

And Sporky... Haven't we already gone over Tennis Ball grenades? I thought Alex's design was based somewhat on it... I'm probably wrong at this point. Waterballoons are an interesting take, considering the difference, and if your friends don't mind getting wet, then all is well.
Maybe I'm a bit too set on seeing ~50 little bits of foam on strings shoot 20ft out of a little ball of plastic, all at once. ^_^

My exams start in two days, so I'll be underwater for two weeks. Good luck with your designs, guys.
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#45 Jappo

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 01:10 AM

You could of course get an m-80 and stuff it inside a tennis ball full of foam that is held together some how. I would suggest using rubber cement, coat both halves of the ball with it an allow it to dry, fill halves with foam and an m-80 in the middle with the fuse coming out of the ball. Put the halves together and there you go.

The only problem I see with sticking explosives in a tennis ball filled with foam is the fact that the foam would most likely melt when the m-80 explodes. M-80's are hard to get in places other then the states (I.E. Canada), and the fact that M-80's can explode pumpkins very easily. Maybe if you were to make a nerf bomb with it though..... Well good luck with actual explosives in your Nerf 'Nades (NN's ^_^ )
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#46 sporkboyofjustice

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 02:09 PM

I had actually thought about the melting foam, this is why it would be dangerous aside from the explosion. It was more of a silly idea really. You could make your own homemade explosives but that is dangerous and should not be done. Safety should always be a primary concern. Has anyone considered stationary booby traps? These would be easier to design as they do not need to be thrown and could have just one or two dirrections of firing.

You could even modify a gun to do the job, the lightnin blitz for example would be a good choice with it's pepperbox spread.
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#47 THIRST

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 03:10 PM

ZERO, your a genius...I understand your corrections, thanks, you asked why a dowel?...the dowel is there only so you can custumize the size of the pump to get it excactly where you need it...which also increases and decreases the sizeof the air chamber. Also, with an extended firing rod, it will be easier to push down...but really it serves the purpose of adjusting the time it will take for the grenade to let its air out firing the darts/shrapnel...so its kind of a timer ^_^

In your diagram, the only correction you would need besides adding the barrels(whichyou already stated), is that the barrels need to be slightly down, because the pumphad is going to need to be able to go past the barrels letting air out into the barrels.
And because it could hurt if you throw it, you could wrap the shaft in insulation like H2H weapons.
So you like my idea?

EDIT: And justiceboy, I used to make homemade explosives(stay back and its less dangerous...), and a few weeks ago, I had an "explosive" idea dealing with ESTER rocket fuel, a crayola, and a long shaft of pvc. I would put rocket fuel into the crayola, seal it off with paper, add a fuse, load it in the back of a long pvc shaft, light the fuse and whalla!, a rocket launcher with a firing range of approxamatly 250 feet depending on the angle of firing, and the the type of fuel.
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#48 sporkboyofjustice

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 05:23 PM

I did have an idea about using solid fuel model rocket engines triggered by one of those mini RC car remotes but that would be expensive as you'd have to buy engines every third time you wanted to use the thing.
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#49 Jappo

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Posted 02 December 2003 - 11:18 PM

Has anyone considered stationary booby traps? These would be easier to design as they do not need to be thrown and could have just one or two dirrections of firing.

I had an idea for a Nerf land mine check it out Here
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#50 sporkboyofjustice

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 03:16 PM

How about spring mouse traps as a delivery method. They are inexpensive, reusable, durable and they have a hair trigger. As an added bonus they are only mildly dangerous. This would be more for a booby trap rather than a gernade for obvious reasons, I wouldn't want people throwing mouse traps at me.
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