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Solenoid Question


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#1 Quilan Fett

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 12:31 PM

I want to build a semi-auto somewhat like Widworld's AT2K ( ) , but with a solenoid and a 30 PSI Pressure regulator. I chose a low pressure because I am not some loser who wants to shoot people from 200 feet. My question is, how long does it take for a Solenoid valve to close? Can it only close once there is no more pressure on it? Does this depend on if it is manual, electric, or modded?

Edited by Qui'lan Fett, 12 November 2007 - 12:40 PM.

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#2 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 02:00 PM

Electric solenoids (which are the fastest, and what you want) will stay open for as long as the electricity is flowing, and open and close extremely fast. I suggest having two solenoids, one connected to the storage tank that lets air into a secondary, firing tank. Once the secondary tank is primed, the valve is closed and another valve on the other end is opened and fires the dart.

Edited by SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA, 12 November 2007 - 02:00 PM.

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#3 joeyaglr444

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 02:12 PM

sounds like a great idea how much is solenoid these days?

p.s why are you flaming people that shoot from 200 feet?
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#4 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 02:14 PM

Solenoids for 1" connections run about $10-15 at Home Depot and Lowes.
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#5 Prometheus

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 02:18 PM

I want to build a semi-auto somewhat like Widworld's AT2K ( ) , but with a solenoid and a 30 PSI Pressure regulator. I chose a low pressure because I am not some loser who wants to shoot people from 200 feet. My question is, how long does it take for a Solenoid valve to close? Can it only close once there is no more pressure on it? Does this depend on if it is manual, electric, or modded?


You do realize that that AT2K is nowhere near semi-auto?
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#6 sam

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 02:34 PM

Use a push button valve, it should be smaller and easier to use, with similar performance. CS posted about them in a few of his topics.
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#7 jwasko

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 02:44 PM

Note: Unfortunately, I can't watch the video right now, so I apologize if some of what I say does not apply.

I tried doing something similar to what you're talking about (see my topic entitled "The Viper").

Here's what I leaned:

1. An unmodified solenoid valve (i.e., one that actually uses the electrically operated solenoid valve) is not good for firing. Even with a large tank and more than 70 PSI, I was getting pretty pitiful rangess (15 feet, tops). And yes, I was using three 9v batteries wired in series (or sequence, or whatever it's supposed to be...I forget now).

2. In addition, an unmodified sprinkler valve may not close fast enough to be the firing valve (i.e., it will just let the pressure from the storage tank go on through the firing tank and into the barrel), due to the way a solenoid valve closes. However, with only the slightest of modifications, it should work fine (PM me for details on that modification). See below for more on how a solenoid closes.

3. However, an unmodified solenoid valve is very convenient for the valve in between the larger "storage" tank and the smaller "firing" tank, because it can be opened through the use of a momentary switch and closed simply by releasing the momentary switch. It's also good because you can have this valve somewhere besides directly on your homemade...I have mine on my backpack tank and have the wires bundled up with the airline going to the switch on my blaster.

Finally, a modified solenoid valve (which usually uses a blow gun to open it) or one with a manual bleed may be good enough to propel a dart a good distance at 30 PSI, but I don't know because I've never modified mine.

Now, for some general info:

Solenoids only function one way. In order too close, there must be pressure coming in fro the "back side." That pressure will force a diphragm down and seal the valve. So that no air can pass through to the "front side."

So, the answer to your question of "Can it only close once there is no more pressure on it?" is no. There must be pressure coming in from the backside in order for your solenoid valve to close. The solenoid itself (or the blow gun or the manual bleed) vent a little of this pressure from above the diaphragm and thus allow the valve to open.

In summary:

1. You might as well use an unmodified sprinkler valve as the valve between the storage tank and the firing tank, as long as you don't mind working with some electricity.

2. If you want to use another solenoid valve as your firing valve (between the firing tank and the barrel), you'll either need one with manual bleed or modify one. Or, just a different kind of valve altogether (maybe something like in the Dchap series).

Well, I hope I answered your questions.

PS: Just so you guys know, I am still working on the Viper; however, I've had to use a different kind of firing valve (as mentioned above). Plus, it's become much closer to a mod/integration than a homemade. I hope to finish it over Thanksgiving break, although there is one feature I would like to add that's giving me trouble...

Edit: Wow, four posts while I was writing that.

Sam: CS, in his thread about push-button valves, stated that they limit the airflow too much to be used as a firing valve. However, just like an unmodified solenoid valve, they are convenient for that valve in between the storage and firing tanks. (henceforth to be called the secondary valve, so I don't have to type so friggin' much <_< ).

Edited by jwasko, 12 November 2007 - 02:50 PM.

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#8 sam

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 05:36 PM

Sam: CS, in his thread about push-button valves, stated that they limit the airflow too much to be used as a firing valve. However, just like an unmodified solenoid valve, they are convenient for that valve in between the storage and firing tanks. (henceforth to be called the secondary valve, so I don't have to type so friggin' much <_< ).

Yeah, thats what I was getting at, or at least try to.
Basically a set up like this:
Posted Image
(pic taken from CS's topic on HPA tanks)
Except on an Airtech.
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#9 Quilan Fett

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Posted 12 November 2007 - 10:05 PM

I want to build a semi-auto somewhat like Widworld's AT2K ( ) , but with a solenoid and a 30 PSI Pressure regulator. I chose a low pressure because I am not some loser who wants to shoot people from 200 feet. My question is, how long does it take for a Solenoid valve to close? Can it only close once there is no more pressure on it? Does this depend on if it is manual, electric, or modded?


You do realize that that AT2K is nowhere near semi-auto?

You mean cause it doesn't have a semi-auto clip? The airflow is semi-auto.
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QUOTE(pokemaster @ Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM) View Post

hasbro in a nerf war!!!!! dude the will cancel it and confinscate are guns

#10 pizlo

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:14 PM

i don't really know how ld this is but you can purchase premoded ones with blowgun valves here.
Its a Potato cannon site
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#11 aetherguy881

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 12:35 PM

If you want to buy a pre modded sprinkler, then I would highly suggest that you buy from BCARMS coming from the spudding community, I can say that he has the best quality product out there. He closely followed Joel from spudtech, however he's shut down indefinitely. So as for now BCARMS is they guy to buy from now.

Also, about potato cannons, we don't just shoot potatoes, we shoot a variety of projectiles. If you want you can browse the forums and find some pretty good homemade valves that I'm sure you can use in nerf. However some valves may be too powerful like the Supah or the Mauler... Someone made a mini Mauler, that might work, I'll try to see If I can find a link.

I was thinking about using a solenoid in a future-going-to-happen-but-still-in-my-head mod. I wonder what he does with all the removed solenoids from the modded sprinklers... Maybe he'll sell those at a low cost. Just an idea, I'll have to catch him at spudfiles.

@ jwasko> Just wondering, why did you use 3 9v batteries instead of 1? I'm just asking that in terms of efficiency, you could have wired the 2 solenoids in parallel to one 9v which is all that's needed to open the valve. I just want to know that. Sorry for hijacking, I guess the one question would be better than necro posting in The Viper thread.
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#12 jwasko

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 02:37 PM

@ jwasko> Just wondering, why did you use 3 9v batteries instead of 1? I'm just asking that in terms of efficiency, you could have wired the 2 solenoids in parallel to one 9v which is all that's needed to open the valve. I just want to know that. Sorry for hijacking, I guess the one question would be better than necro posting in The Viper thread.


Everything I have read said that a solenoid valve requires three 9 volt batteries, wired in series, to work properly. If that's wrong, let me know (perhaps via PM).

Wait...not everything I read on the internet is true?!?! :o

I've been living my life based on a lie... :(

Edited by jwasko, 08 December 2007 - 02:38 PM.

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