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What Happened?

I miss the old NH.

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#1 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 05:43 PM

First, I realize that I am not an administrator, nor is it likely I will ever become one. Therefore, this argument will not carry as much weight as if cxwq or VACC posted the same concept, but I believe that they ought to be in agreement with what I type. Secondly, I posted this in Off-Topic because it is about this site in particular, not related to the Nerf aspect but to its basic content. Question, comment, maybe even flame all you want, but take into account my words. Brace yourselves.

What happened to the old NerfHaven? I am not about to go on and say that this site is terrible and imply that I will leave or that I should be looking for other forums, but rather to ask something several people are probably wondering with me.

When I joined almost a year ago, this site was much different. What was once a true haven for both those well-versed in Nerf-related topics as well as newcomers who carried a fascination with the hobby has now sunken into a state of degradation. Several members post acting as if they have some clue as to what they are discussing. Others ask idiotic questions. It isn’t the fact that they ask questions that bothers me, but that they are often so simple that a single search would reveal the wealth of information that they are begging for because they are too lazy to do their own research. There is a tutorial authored by Carbon that is pinned in the General Nerf subcategory. Does nobody use this? Sifting through the useless jumble of threads written by those too ignorant to read that post is a hassle, and only gives a way for post-mongering and useless members to up their post count. This needs to end.

Another noticeable point: the language used here. AIM-speak, or chat room abbreviations, are appearing more frequently now, despite their prohibition by our Code of Conduct. Vulgar language is also popping up quite often. It is realized that some crude language is acceptable under certain circumstances or once in a great while, but now members (a handful in particular) are resorting to it either because cusses are some of the only words in their limited vocabulary or they feel the need to make themselves appear tough to hide who they truly are. Spelling and grammar are also losing meaning to this society. Blame it on typing speed, slow down your typing. Blame it on a lack of knowledge of the word or grammar rules, Webster Online or Microsoft Word (or a suitable program with Spell Check) can help. Ignorance isn’t even an excuse. Posts don’t always have to be completely correct, as there is slight leeway for error, but they do need to be readable.

These two problems are often dwarfed by the third: useless posting. Idiotic threads, whether in Off Topic or not, do not have a place here. Websites exist for such “contributions,” but this is not one of them. People who post arbitrarily or with random content: Tourette’s Syndrome does not carry over to writing. Post something useful or do not post. Members who only flame others, such as Substance Abuse (I feel no guilt in calling him out. He’s the most recognized example, plus he has been banned for it as if to emphasize the point.), have no purpose. If they want to abuse the privilege that has been graciously given to them, they ought not to have that privilege anymore.

In short, we need to work on restoring NH to its glory. It isn’t the administrators’ job to watch over these forums constantly. They have lives, as do most of us. If we can take the extra minute and read over our posts, think about its value to this society, then we will have eliminated most of the problem. Make a difference.

Edit:

Fuck it. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

Edited by SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA, 08 October 2007 - 04:59 PM.

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The only commonly shared fate among us all is death. I turn to the shadows so that I may not be unfamiliar with hell's corridors when I arrive. - SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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#2 Cmdrmack

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 05:56 PM

How do you suggest we clear the chaff?

We can't just delete accounts or ban people who aren't the greatest contributors.

We can only do so much to educate folks.

We certainly don't want to turn this into an exclusive "cool-kids" club.

I agree with you, there's a lot more fluff on this site than when I joined, but I don't see a solution to the problem.
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QUOTE(Predalien_Ro @ Apr 7 2008, 10:24 PM) View Post

Oompa: FECES!? Who in their right mind would try that shit!?


Bigger Salvo

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#3 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:04 PM

A crackdown on everyone's part is necessary. It may not be the most convenient solution, but it ought to be more effective that asking others to "please clean up their posts" when that seems to have no result. Part of that is that the community is too lenient at times, and the other part is that some are too ignorant for their own good and the good of NH. If it is made clear that we are serious about being the best Nerf site on the web, then our warnings will carry more weight.
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The only commonly shared fate among us all is death. I turn to the shadows so that I may not be unfamiliar with hell's corridors when I arrive. - SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Founder of Nightshade Laboratories and The Nightshade Armament Corporation.

#4 Chewbacca

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:09 PM

Wow, now that I think about it, you are right. I may have joined a little while after you, but I have noticed a decrease in post and thread quality, but an increase in useless posts like "What do I need to know to build a Homemade?" or "What are the basics to modding a gun?" It should really be self-evident.

We really need to clean up and get our act together. SHA is right, and I strongly agree with him, it's not the admin's job to clean up after us, that's more our job. The admins are just here to keep order, and make sure we don't have pedophiles running around with nerf guns (and to pay the bills as well, of which I'm sure most if not all members here on the 'Haven thank them for) after us. They are kinda like the parents, and us the kids, but we have to grow up.

Cmdrmack, I agree, we don't want this to become a "cool kids" club and limit the number of Nerfers, but we also need to keep this site's name going. NERFhaven. It's about Nerf, running around and shooting your friends, modding guns, and creating guns. Not discussing the new PS3, or how to hack the Nintendo Wii. I mean, Off-Topic is there for that exact reason, but as Piney said it:

Enough is enough.


Both SHA and Piney are right. It may not be an easy solution, but everybody has to try a little harder.
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#5 six-five-two

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:22 PM

Someone should make a "lame machine gun design that sounds all cool but i'll never make and this is a useless thread forum". Or, just make a question forum for quick questions or something like that.
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#6 bobafan

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:33 PM

I understand what you are saying and I think it is becauswe of the breaking of the wall of account verification.
I'm not blaming OMC for this, because there is no way anyone could have forseen this result.(also, because I am a member of this influx)
After the immigration, veterin membars stopped being as strict with not searching and stupidity. Also, I have seen a large decrease in the number of 9999 specials.

I don't know what can be done short of flaming or banning people until this site is back to how it was.
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thaygor: all i remimber is pumping it hard and shooting than trying to pump again

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#7 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:40 PM

That in itself is a problem, though. After the Great Noob Influx, members became lax, just as you stated. However, the new members also tended to flame each other, unlike the method of more polite warnings that was typical of the older days. We need to find a way to restore NH without flaming. That only serves to further worsen our condition. Banning does improve, but it is still not an absolute plan. A less destructive strategy is what needs to be developed. Anyone with ideas, please contribute. Actions without motive and execution without planning is progression towards the bottom.
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The only commonly shared fate among us all is death. I turn to the shadows so that I may not be unfamiliar with hell's corridors when I arrive. - SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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#8 nerfsharpie6

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:54 PM

What this site needs is a good swift kick in the ass by all moderators and administrators. What I Mean is a global warning. Start small 2-3 day bans for breaking rules, and over excessive flaming (Sure obscene language is a problem but one that doesn't need to be addressed at the moment). Then work your way up and the ban charts, one week for repeat offenders, 2 weeks if they don't co-operate then and one month as the next to last step, after that go for a perma-ban. NH shouldn't be as cluttered as it is, or offensive in way or another but a place to discuss things be it NERF or off-topic. Stop letting members in, or better yet have them write a one paragraph essay saying why they should be let in. This address's two concerns: Spammers who wouldn't post anything and flamers, then you have the people who can't spell. With the essay you can selectively let in who you want. I've tried to explain my self the best I can, and I hope I did my part to try and help correct this problem.
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#9 Shorty

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:59 PM

Ignorance isn't even an excuse.


Amen my brother just read on my signature.
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#10 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:00 PM

It's not a bad theory, but it would discourage newcomers. That results in a more pure community of those truly devoted to Nerf, but say someone who might go on to become a great contributor is turned off by the practice? It's not a major issue, and this may be the best idea so far for improvement, but it's still something to consider. Also, the members who are determined to be problematic would be given four chances to disrupt the site until being removed. Impossible as it may be to develop a "perfect" plan, we must try to get as close as possible.

Shorty: I know, that was part of the inspiration for saying that.

Edited by SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA, 07 October 2007 - 07:02 PM.

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The only commonly shared fate among us all is death. I turn to the shadows so that I may not be unfamiliar with hell's corridors when I arrive. - SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

Founder of the Shadow Militia.
Founder of Nightshade Laboratories and The Nightshade Armament Corporation.

#11 keef

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:02 PM

Nerf HQ is laughing there ass off now screaming, "0R PL4NN3D W0RK3D?!?!?1!!?!!!1!"

But even if we had an essay to get in, people would fake it, or just not sign up at all, and we may of lost the next FA or CS.

Sha beat me, its hard to type when you don't type gay-chat 24/7.

Edited by keef, 07 October 2007 - 07:04 PM.

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Timothy M-Lick <3

#12 bobafan

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:02 PM

The answer to this question and all your others lie in the search function of this forum. I deleted your 'best gun' poll and suspended you for a day so you can do some reading.

There are 134 threads on this forum that match the search string "PETG" with titles like "New Barrel Material", "PETG Found", "PETG Tubing", "In Need Of PETG", and simply "PETG". What could have possibly made you think that we wanted to answer these questions?

Your avatar selection is not without irony.


This is the kind of flaming I was talking about.
There was even a virtual slap on the wrist with the 1 day suspention.
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thaygor: all i remimber is pumping it hard and shooting than trying to pump again

---

<death09>my girlfriend broke up with me and sent me pix of her and her new boyfriend in bed
<ktp753>ouch.
<death09>yeah.i sent them to her dad

#13 dart

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:04 PM

I to have noticed AIM speak more often and vuglar language. I totally aggree with you SHA. I think this should go into the articles sections .Very well written article

Edited by dart, 07 October 2007 - 07:09 PM.

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#14 Senor Wolfwood

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:18 PM

I also see a problem with the essay deal: The administrators would hardly have time to read so many essays, especially if that was in effect with the massive NUB influx.
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QUOTE(Forsaken_angel24 @ Oct 23 2007, 12:13 AM) View Post

Dumbest rule ever.
There are better ways of getting a womans clothes off.


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AKA: Earle_The_Magnificent

#15 Lynx

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:24 PM

That in itself is a problem, though. After the Great Noob Influx, members became lax, just as you stated. However, the new members also tended to flame each other, unlike the method of more polite warnings that was typical of the older days. We need to find a way to restore NH without flaming. That only serves to further worsen our condition. Banning does improve, but it is still not an absolute plan. A less destructive strategy is what needs to be developed. Anyone with ideas, please contribute. Actions without motive and execution without planning is progression towards the bottom.


As the latest active addition of the influx, I believe that there should be a one week period after signing up of only being able to view the forums except for posting in off-topic or what ever. That, or a minimum of ACTIVE hours in the haven before you can post. This way, everyone knows that they have spent over 2-3 hours in the haven before they can say anything. This would prevent any more noobs in any later influxes.

I think the implementation of an active hour rule should be used on people that shouldn't be banned, but have already been warned.

It would go like this:

For the next 2 ACTIVE hours on the haven, you can not post because of _____________(whatever he/she[who am I kidding] did to deserve being banned). This would serve as an effective ban replacement.

In my experience at the haven, editing is THE most important anti ban tool to use. Having a delete function would work great, too.

Edited by Lynx, 07 October 2007 - 07:29 PM.

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Columbus' original crazy asshole now comes with:

AWESOME NITEFINDER

#16 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:28 PM

Do we have a way to track active hours and then use that to return posting capabilities? If so, that may not be a bad suggestion. However, someone might just leave their computer and web browser on and set to the home page and just click a random link every so often...
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The only commonly shared fate among us all is death. I turn to the shadows so that I may not be unfamiliar with hell's corridors when I arrive. - SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

Founder of the Shadow Militia.
Founder of Nightshade Laboratories and The Nightshade Armament Corporation.

#17 Chewbacca

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:36 PM

Admins really need to put their foor down and say, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Piney posted a thread much like this one on the front page for a reason, and this time let's try a little harder. NerfHaven is supposed to be the best Nerfing website there is on the net, and has been famous for not only great nerfing ideas, mods, homemades and general discussion, but for the fact that we played hardball here. You made a mistake and didn't read the Code of Conduct, posted non-legit stuff and you were banned.

I'm sorry for referring to NHQ, but I have a quote from over there. Cmdrmack made a great comment in a concept thread, in which he said:

What do you think this is, Nerfhaven?


NH is widely known for its short temper to those idiots who post their moronic threads about the fact that they finally got Halo to work on their PC, or they were wondering if anybody wanted to sell them a really good runescape account. It may seem a bit unfair, but if anyting, it is the complete opposite. As I said before, this is a NERF forum, not one where everyone gets to be an admin and post random shit about porn and illeagal downloads. When you registered, you checked a little box that said you agree that you are 13 or over, and you will obey all rules stated in the Code of Conduct. If you don't want to abide by these rules, leave. If you don't want to abide by these rules, and don't want to leave, OMC would MAKE you leave. That's how it was, and how it should be.

Edited by Chewbacca, 08 October 2007 - 05:29 PM.

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#18 theschief

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:43 PM

While honorable as the intentions expressed in this thread are, the proposals that are being put forth are not quite feasable.

The new influx of members was an important event for this site, I think it did a ton of good by bringing in a lot of new faces. I myself came in only a short time before the flood of new members, but I certainly noticed the change. After the application dam was broken there were a flurry of 9999 specials served up. So much for the idiots. I guess the complaint here is aimed at the people who didn't make any really dumb posts, and managed to escape a ban.

I think it is unfair to boot people for past transgressions. If there was to be a general bar-raising for post content, I would suggest that those people who would be in danger of a boot be warned, and then if they fail to conform to the new standards then they'd get a boot.
But the best idea is simply to lead by example, to point out poor spelling of grammar, and simple constant reminders that NerfHaven is not a place where the lowest common denominator is tolerated. I think that no drastic action needs to be taken, and that slowly but surely the "old" Nerfhaven will come back as you remembered it.

By the way, a ton of the other ideas are completely improbable because they require way to much effort on the part of the admins. Reading essays? Patroling the boards 24/7 looking for misplaced commas? Try telling OMC that he should spend his sunday as a human spell-check.

And finally, there are more pressing issues in the world. Such as the shrinking usage of the hyphen: http://www.nytimes.c...r=1&oref=slogin

Edited by theschief, 07 October 2007 - 07:43 PM.

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#19 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:49 PM

I agree that it's best to leave sleeping dogs alone, but the standards ought to be set from here-on out, or to be effective in one week and posted on the front page so that there is no doubt about the serious nature with which we are viewing this. I recognized that there is a need for members to act on their own habits to reduce the workload for admins, but the staff still oversees everything. As for importance, the changing of this community will impact all of us.

Edited by SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA, 07 October 2007 - 07:49 PM.

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The only commonly shared fate among us all is death. I turn to the shadows so that I may not be unfamiliar with hell's corridors when I arrive. - SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

Founder of the Shadow Militia.
Founder of Nightshade Laboratories and The Nightshade Armament Corporation.

#20 Chewbacca

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:57 PM

By the way, a ton of the other ideas are completely improbable because they require way to much effort on the part of the admins. Reading essays? Patroling the boards 24/7 looking for misplaced commas? Try telling OMC that he should spend his sunday as a human spell-check.


I don't think we mean the admins should be patrolling the boards 24/7, searching for misplaced commas or forgotten hyphens, but more general, like users post are written in only 1337 and AIM-style speak, and overall just idiotic posts and threads. Just in the last 10 or so minutes, Death's Avatar (sorry for using you as an example, but you were just the first guy to post a semi-pointless thread, and no offense) posted a thread about bungie becoming independent and "freeing" itself from Microsoft. But does anybody really care? Does it really make a difference in our lives if a gaming company broke away from Microsoft? Is it Nerf related? The Halo games are done, so it really doesn't surprise me that something like this happens.

I'm also not saying Death's Avatar should be banned or given a warning, just merely that he should think about whether or not we would really care, and if it's nerf-related or not. Again, this is a nerf forum!


P.S. I'd rather not try telling OMC that he should spend his sunday as a human spell-check, as if I did, he would probably eat me.

Edited by Chewbacca, 07 October 2007 - 07:59 PM.

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#21 NerfFreak

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:04 PM

What I see as the main problem is that people joining don't even bother reading the Code of Conduct. An example of something I also see alot follows:

New Member: YA, I LIKE TOTALLY LUV DIS GUN. I OWnZORS w/ It. !I MODDED IT!
Admin: Don't do that. This is your only warning.

What I see is that it wouldn't be their only warning. It'd be their second, since the first was in the Code of Conduct.

Maybe if there was some sort of quiz on the site rules. Results could be emailed directly to admins, and if the new member's score was too low, then they wouldn't be accepted as a new member.
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Nuckin' Futz

#22 Grenada

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:08 PM

Maybe there could be a COMPUTER spell-check added, and let OMC keep his sundays( and every other day of the week) to himself.
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#23 Chewbacca

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:10 PM

The quiz idea wouldn't really work, though as people could just read the code of conduct, answer all the questions right, and then never bother to worry about the conduct ever again. Plus, I'm guessing that wouls be WAY to much work for the admins, as we get lots of new members every week, and admins have lives as do we.

I don't think the spell check would work very well either, as there are a million ways of misspelling words. I could spell "computer" as "compzuterz" or "cumpewtorzs" or "calmpeeuwtarszs". Most people don't even know that there is a spell check in the forums, and are way to lazy to use it. And plus, we have to take responsibility for our own actions, and if we can't meet standards, we can't be included. If a 400 lbs. man wanted to ride on a roller coaster that was built for people who wighted 250 lbs or under, do you think the amusement park staff would just let him go on, even though he didn't meet specifications? No, they would tell him they're sorry, but he can't go on this ride. That's how life is.

Edited by Chewbacca, 07 October 2007 - 08:17 PM.

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#24 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:14 PM

There is a spell-check available in the post window, but it requires the download of something. Not sure what, though. As for the quiz, it's a bit unnecessary. Sorting out the results and even designing such a test in the first place will be too time-consuming to have as much potential as is thought.
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The only commonly shared fate among us all is death. I turn to the shadows so that I may not be unfamiliar with hell's corridors when I arrive. - SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

Founder of the Shadow Militia.
Founder of Nightshade Laboratories and The Nightshade Armament Corporation.

#25 el swifto

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:32 PM

Wow, now that I think about it, you are right. I may have joined a little while after you, but I have noticed a decrease in post and thread quality, but an increase in useless posts like "What do I need to know to build a Homemade?" or "What are the basics to modding a gun?" It should really be self-evident.

We really need to clean up and get our act together. SHA is right, and I strongly agree with him, it's not the admin's job to clean up after us, that's more our job. The admins are just here to keep order, and make sure we don't have pedophiles running around with nerf guns (and to pay the bills as well, of which I'm sure most if not all members here on the 'Haven thank them for) after us. They are kinda like the parents, and us the kids, but we have to grow up.

Cmdrmack, I agree, we don't want this to become a "cool kids" club and limit the number of Nerfers, but we also need to keep this site's name going. NERFhaven. It's about Nerf, running around and shooting your friends, modding guns, and creating guns. Not discussing the new PS3, or how to hack the Nintendo Wii. I mean, Off-Topic is there for that exact reason, but as Piney said it:

Enough is enough.


Both SHA and Piney are right. It may not be an easy solution, but everybody has to try a little harder.



As Chewbacca said, this is NERFhaven. But not only is it NERFhaven but NERFHAVEN.

What I mean by this is that it should not only be a place for nerf, but a place for nerf that we can enjoy it; A place where great ideas and contributions come together.



And it should actually live up to its reputation and be the best nerf site out there.


~Swifto
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