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Double Orings Vs Etape


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#1 DragonFire

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 11:37 AM

I'm fairly new to modding here and I'm trying out some basic mods, just removing air restrictors and improving the seal on the plunger tube. Right now, I'm trying to mod some DTGs and I'm trying to impove the seal using Etape.

I tested the modded gun side-by-side with the unmodded gun and I've noticed that my range DROPPED slightly with modded, so obviously I screwed up somewhere. (I think I put on too much etape. Any tips on how easily the plunger should slide are welcome.)

Anyway, while modding, I noticed that the plunger resembles a LOT of other guns, meaning that there's space for 2 o-rings. Now, in general, does adding a second o-oring work better than just wrapping around a bunch of etape around the plunger head? Or do you get the best results with both? (And on etape, does it seal better wrapping it loosely, or tightly?)

Edited by DragonFire, 25 August 2007 - 11:38 AM.

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#2 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 11:51 AM

I have found that instead of wrapping E-tape around the plunger head and O-rings, if you take the O-ring off, wrap the E-tape in the groove, cut off the extra portion covering the sides, and replace the two O-rings (if you have the space), it will work better. Also, go to Home Depot and pick up some silicone spray-on lubricant, and wash out and re-lube the plunger tube every time you take the plunger out.

Edited by SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA, 25 August 2007 - 11:52 AM.

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#3 Prometheus

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 11:52 AM

I'm fairly new to modding here and I'm trying out some basic mods, just removing air restrictors and improving the seal on the plunger tube. Right now, I'm trying to mod some DTGs and I'm trying to impove the seal using Etape.

I tested the modded gun side-by-side with the unmodded gun and I've noticed that my range DROPPED slightly with modded, so obviously I screwed up somewhere. (I think I put on too much etape. Any tips on how easily the plunger should slide are welcome.)

Anyway, while modding, I noticed that the plunger resembles a LOT of other guns, meaning that there's space for 2 o-rings. Now, in general, does adding a second o-oring work better than just wrapping around a bunch of etape around the plunger head? Or do you get the best results with both? (And on etape, does it seal better wrapping it loosely, or tightly?)

Second o-ring works better, as e-tape won't stick well on the lube they use for the rings. After a while, the e-tape might fall off, where the o-ring is held on there pretty good.
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QUOTE(VACC @ Jan 24 2008, 06:12 AM) View Post
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#4 Retiate

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 11:55 AM

Ranges dropped slightly for possibly 2 reasons: 1. You probably put on too much E-tape. 2. If you're using stock darts, removing the pegs cause that big hole in the back of the dart to be just empty space. So air from the plunger has to fill that space before the dart is fired.

And, you add E-tape to widen the widen the diameter of the O-rings just a tiny bit, so it seals better. Add E-tape to the actual plunger head, not the O-ring. Though this is harder to do, it lasts longer, looks cleaner, and works better. It'll require you to remove the O-rings, wash off the plunger head, removing all lubricants from it, cutting a piece of E-tape, then cutting it vertically so it's thin enough to fit in the space where the O-rings go. Then replace the O-ring and add more lubricant.
Adding another O-ring will give a better seal than just adding E-tape, though adding an O-ring and adding E-tape will give the best seal (unless 2 O-rings already gives a perfect seal, then the E-tape won't help at all).

The plunger should be able to slide easily through the plunger tube. If you have to push with some force, there is too much friction and the plunger will move slower, lowering ranges. Adding lubricant (rubber safe, NO petroleum based products, and I believe lithium grease will kill the O-ring as well.) will help it slide better. When I add E-tape, I normally go anywhere from 1 to 2 times around the plunger head. I have not done this to a DTG before, so I don't know how much should work. Just experiment to find the best balance between good seal, and low friction.

Edit: Looks like I got beat to it.

Edited by Retiate, 25 August 2007 - 11:55 AM.

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#5 Nonsense Man

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 02:54 PM

Does anyone know where to buy an O ring??
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QUOTE(1lastnerfgun @ Apr 19 2008, 08:39 AM) View Post

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#6 hierarchy

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 03:00 PM

Does anyone know where to buy an O ring??

Home Depot should sell them.
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QUOTE(Retiate @ Aug 13 2007, 08:43 PM) View Post

I guess you have some heavy duty industrial strength toilet paper holders. Do they advise you to wear eye protection when changing rolls?

My TTG mod.

#7 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 03:14 PM

If possible, find a large O-ring kit (I was lucky enough to find a 250+ ring set for $1 at a local hardware store) so you have the ability to mod a wide variety of guns. I would also recommend that you measure your O-ring's I.D. and O.D. before going to any retailers, because some stores carry O-rings tagged by part number, and if you can find the exact measurements on the box somewhere, it is possible to get ones that match yours perfectly or very closely.
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#8 Prometheus

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 03:38 PM

E-tape will give the best seal (unless 2 O-rings already gives a perfect seal, then the E-tape won't help at all).

In the case where two o-rings give a perfect seal, e-tape will most likely hinder performance, as you are creating pressure on the o-rings, which will slow the plunger down.

If possible, find a large O-ring kit (I was lucky enough to find a 250+ ring set for $1 at a local hardware store) so you have the ability to mod a wide variety of guns. I would also recommend that you measure your O-ring's I.D. and O.D. before going to any retailers, because some stores carry O-rings tagged by part number, and if you can find the exact measurements on the box somewhere, it is possible to get ones that match yours perfectly or very closely.


I use a caliper to measure the thickness of o-rings, and for small ones, drill bits work well for ID. If you have thickness and ID, OD = ID + 2x thickness.
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QUOTE(VACC @ Jan 24 2008, 06:12 AM) View Post
I am NEVER going to sleep naked in the bed of a former child star ever again....seriously

#9 Retiate

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 03:46 PM

E-tape will give the best seal (unless 2 O-rings already gives a perfect seal, then the E-tape won't help at all).

In the case where two o-rings give a perfect seal, e-tape will most likely hinder performance, as you are creating pressure on the o-rings, which will slow the plunger down.


Er, yeah. That's what I was trying to imply, it just didn't sound right. Additional friction = slower plunger = less range.

Another thing, the size of the O-ring can be a bit smaller, as you can stretch them over to fit on your plunger head. If I just see O-rings at the hardware store, sometimes I get some because I could use them, so I sort of have to just guess which ones will fit. I normally try to get ones I think might be a bit smaller.
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#10 DragonFire

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 04:33 PM

quote name='PharaonArin' date='Jan 11 2007, 08:23 PM' post='98144']
Its called Harbor Freight Tools. There are a variety of sizes. The website is http://www.harborfre.../displayItem.do the ad says it comes with 30 of the most common sizes. The regular price is $10.

-Pharaon-



P.S.: it is item 2901
[/quote]

I got this when I was searching to make sure I wasn't asking a question that had been asked numerous times before. I know that Harbor Freight Tools is there retail store chain, but when I went to pick up one of those particular items, THEY WERE SOLD OUT!!! (My timing sucks.) Still, I didn't wanna leave empty-handed, so I got a different assortment. (Not as good as that particular one, BTW.)

Anyway, thanks a ton for all the advice and that explains so much as to why I'm seeing minimal/negative range imporvements. (I'm wrapping etape around the Oring itself, man I feel stupid...) And yes, I'm also still using stock darts. (I have noticed speed increases on some guns, despite a lack of range increase, BTW.)

Well, time to undo some mistakes!


EDIT: Fixed the HTML code so the link actually works, but you still have to put in the Item Number. (2901, in case you didn't read the quote.)


EDIT AGAIN: Okay, after tinkering with the bugger for at least an hour and removing ALL of the etape, I got my original ranges back, even with the ARs removed. Apparently, these particular guns must get a perfect seal stock. I knew these guns wern't great but I wanted something somewhat simple to experiment with. (That, and the fact that you can hold the case closed with one hand and fire off a bunch of test rounds without having to deal with a crapload of screwing and unscrewing.)

Edited by DragonFire, 25 August 2007 - 07:17 PM.

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#11 frost vectron

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 02:44 AM

In my experience, I only use E-Tape on guns that have plunger heads that predate the use of O-rings.

All the new nerf guns use the nifty O-ring setup. Adding a second one is a no-brainer.

When you're stuck with the rubber-suction-cup-looking plunger head, then you whip out the E-tape. Neither O-rings or E-tape seal better than the other, it's just that there are times where using one over the other is more convienent. For new guns, since there is already a groove for the O-ring, you should just install an additional O-ring.
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#12 six-five-two

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 03:27 AM

Wouldn't sticking teflon tape around the plunger head have a better seal?
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#13 monkey with a nf

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 02:01 PM

If you're just using it to expand the plunger head, no (especially becuase it won't stick like e-tape).

You could try wrapping it around the plunger head itself, but I'd think the other methods are easier.
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QUOTE(Pineapple @ Sep 12 2007, 03:13 PM) View Post

For maximum efficiency?


1. Pump up. Count how many pumps.

2. Keep going until you hear a loud "bang".

3. Subtract one pump from the total. Rebuild your air bladder.


There you go.


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