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Mod Difficulty

Standardization

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#1 Rambo

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 08:15 PM

I don't know if this would be possible/easy to do, but, maybe someone well versed in mods(Angel, Slug, etc.) could develop a rating system to tell people how hard the mod is to do. I mean, sometimes you can just tell by looking at it that it's way to hard for you, but it would be nice(for people newer to modding) if they might be able to tell before they start a mod if they will be able to do it. Just a thought. Comments?
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#2 blister

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 08:21 PM

Well, it would be a good idea for something more linear, but mod difficulty also depends on the tools at hand, the level of expertise, skill, and preference. I could say that modifying a Longshot is really easy for me, but I would say modifying a Maverick is somewhat more difficult. (I never had any luck with mavs.)
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#3 TED

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 08:26 PM

I don't think that there is enough difference in the difficulty of moding to need a system. When you look at most mods they really are all just adding new barrels of varying materials. Of course some mods call for other minor things like pump plugging or adding a stronger spring is pretty simple on all guns. Sure there are some outliers for example FA's brass breech mod for the ls, but I think that most people can tell how hard a mod is by reading the write-up.
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#4 JRoD

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 08:27 PM

Everyone would has their own opinion on how hard a mod is, so all results would be different. Perhaps a sort of poll, on each write-up for people who have completed the mod. Where they could rate the difficulty of the mod on a scale of 1-10.
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#5 nerfsharpie6

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 09:57 PM

I'm working on this now. It'll be Microsoft Excell. I should have it done soon.
I'm working on it in html. So does Nerfhaven support Html doccuments?

Edited by nerfsharpie6, 11 July 2007 - 10:17 PM.

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#6 Rambo

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 10:04 PM

Everyone would has their own opinion on how hard a mod is, so all results would be different. Perhaps a sort of poll, on each write-up for people who have completed the mod. Where they could rate the difficulty of the mod on a scale of 1-10.


Right, but if one person did the rankings, it would be standardized, no? I mean, maybe you would say an 8 is like a 10, but you'd know that you can't do 8's then...
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#7 nerfer34

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 10:52 PM

I can be the "rater" if no one else wants to. I am certainly not the best modder, but I can easily mod 90% of the guns here. So I think I'd be fair. I've also attempted many of the greats mods. ( slug and angel and etc.)
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#8 nerfturtle

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 11:30 PM

I don't think it's really necesary, just look at the mod, if you think the steps are beyond you it, is too hard, if not, you can do it. I don't think that there needs to be a rater, complications would arise becuase everybody has a diferent level of craftsmanship.
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#9 Retiate

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 12:22 AM

I think it could also discourage people from doing harder mods, too. The "Oh, it's a level 8 mod, I can't do that." could come up. Though, on the flipside to that, it could make people feel like they really accomplished something "I just finished my first level 8 mod!". Though, I think seeing the finished product of a cool mod already does that, for me at least.
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#10 Gengar003

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 12:49 AM

I believe a "rating" system for difficulty, to be truly useful, should base its ratings on

a.) The tools required
b.) The actions requried (cutting brass, epoxying, etc)
c.) The tools the modder actually has.
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#11 Rambo

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:31 AM

Retiate - Or it could be a way for people to say, "Oh, I can't do that, it's to hard, but I can work up to it in the future."

Gengar - Why would it need to encompass the tools the modder has? The rating system would define the mod based on what the post(s) about it state. I.e. this tool, and these others are necessary and you must do this with them. You could easily say this is "x" hard for me with just that information, right? I mean, if they didn't have a tool and tried to improvise with another tool, it could be harder or easier, but the point of the system is to rate what people have posted, not with you might or might not be able to do.

Edited by RAMBO, 12 July 2007 - 08:08 AM.

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#12 anders

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 06:47 AM

I think it would be useful. In the sport of indoor climbing we have a level system for the difficulty of the walls. And since every climber is different the level system is not always great but it do provide with enough information about the walls so you can choose one with a difficulty you can manage. Do you follow me? And something similar could be used when it comes to nerf mods and homemades.
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QUOTE(VACC @ Aug 16 2007, 03:52 AM) View Post

Does posting in agreement somehow validate your standing in the community? Personally I think it just makes you look like a tool.


the el snapo again

#13 The Shadow

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 01:59 PM

Perhaps when someone posts a write-up they could write somewhere visible a rating on a 1-10 scale of how hard the mod is.
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#14 One Man Clan

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:11 PM

A rating system is totally objective, just like a movie review. This is about as useful/effective as a sabermetrics.
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#15 Gengar003

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 02:34 PM

Gengar - Why would it need to encompass the tools the modder has? The rating system would define the mod based on what the post(s) about it state. I.e. this tool, and these others are necessary and you must do this with them. You could easily say this is "x" hard for me with just that information, right? I mean, if they didn't have a tool and tried to improvise with another tool, it could be harder or easier, but the point of the system is to rate what people have posted, not with you might or might not be able to do.

I guess it shouldn't incorporate what tools the reader has on hand...

Shadow - the idea here, I believe, is discussion of a standardized rating system that wouldn't leave decisions up to the original modder - they'd just figure out where their mod fit in the system, and their number wouldn't be subjective, like OMC said, but rather it would be more meaningful because it would have a basis for comparison - the system itself and other mods that had been rated.

Just like we talk about "Level 4," or "Level 1" crossbows, except extended and generalized to describe all mods.

Edited by Gengar003, 12 July 2007 - 02:36 PM.

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#16 Rambo

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 03:56 PM

A rating system is totally objective, just like a movie review. This is about as useful/effective as a sabermetrics.


What is your point about it being objective? That's a good part of it. If it's objective, done by one person, then it's standardized and everyone can base their decisions off of it.
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#17 The Shadow

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 04:13 PM

Shadow - the idea here, I believe, is discussion of a standardized rating system that wouldn't leave decisions up to the original modder - they'd just figure out where their mod fit in the system, and their number wouldn't be subjective, like OMC said, but rather it would be more meaningful because it would have a basis for comparison - the system itself and other mods that had been rated


So what your telling me is that we leave the rating up to someone who hasn't even done the mod before just by looking at it, or leave it up it to the person who came up with the concept itself?
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QUOTE
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#18 Rambo

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 04:21 PM

You need to have one person do every rating. It would be too hard for multiple people to rate the same mod appropriately on the same scale.

For example - Forsaken Angel might rate his mod as a 7, but someone like myself might say it's a 10. But if Forsaken did all the ratings I would know to add 3 to each of his ratings to know how hard it would be for me. But, if everyone is rating their mods differently, there is no use whatsoever since I might not know how they rate.

Looking at it now, the write up is going to have to be pretty detailed for one person to be able to rate it though...
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#19 commander erik

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 04:22 PM

Why don't we just put how long the mod took us to do (in minutes)?

Sure some people are slower than others, but obviously doing a first-time LS mod would take longer than a simple NF mod.

I would like to add that time is assuming you don't have to go out and get a certain peice or material. I mean the time it actually takes to go from the start to the finished product.
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#20 Rambo

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 04:41 PM

I'm not sure what time would tell you, it could be 40 minutes of simple things, but it could be 10 minutes of really, really hard things. Just wouldn't seem to be much of an indicator for anything to me.
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#21 Gengar003

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 05:36 PM

Okay, enough speculation. I'm going to make a standardized system of rating modifications. At the very least, I'll use it on all of my modifications that I post.

Of course, one person doing it on their own, with no input, wouldn't be, couldn't be too relevant.

So, to start off, here's a list I've come up with of common items used in modifications. I have a plan and all, but right now, I need the community's help making sure I don't miss things.

What's missing?

Tools
Clamp
Dremel
Drill
Drill Press
Hacksaw
Hot Glue Gun
Needlenose Pliers
Pipe Cutters
Pliers
Razor Blade
Scissors
Screwdriver

Barrel Materials (including couplers)
Crayola/Rose Art Markers
PVC
CPVC
Brass
PETG

Other Materials
Bolts / Screws
Bungees
Duct Tape
Electrical Tape
Epoxy
Foam Backer Rod
Metal Plating (Steel, aluminum, etc)
O-Rings
Plumber's Goop
Rubber Bands
Silicone Lubricant
Springs
Wood
Zip Ties

Edited by Gengar003, 12 July 2007 - 11:23 PM.

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#22 nerfsharpie6

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:12 PM

So I've been working dilligently through the night and have come up with a rough rough copy of a rating system. Its in HTML and I need to know if this site supports HTML documents. Its a fairly short table with only six guns on it. But before I post anything I need to know if the site supports HTML.
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#23 PharaonArin

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:44 PM

What's missing?

Tools
Clamp
Dremel
Drill
Drill Press
Hacksaw
Hot Glue Gun
Needlenose Pliers
Pipe Cutters
Pliers
Razor Blade
Scissors
Screwdriver

Barrel Materials (including couplers)
Crayola/Rose Art Markers
PVC
CPVC
Brass
PETG

Other Materials
Bolts / Screws
Bungees
Duct Tape
Electrical Tape
Epoxy
Foam Backer Rod
Metal Plating (Steel, aluminum, etc)
Wood
Plumber's Goop
Rubber Bands
Springs
Zip Ties


O-rings are sometimes used. Also a silicone-based lubricant. Thats a nice list.
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#24 Forsaken angel24

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 12:07 AM

I would rate modifications well. I mean as a trainer I ask people the one to ten question all the time?
How hard is this? 1 means You could this exercise for days and 10 means you are about to collapse because it is so hard.

Same things but dare I say "modified" to a Nerf standard.

1 being something simple along the lines of taking your pliers and ripping out a peg from the barrel. To a 10 that would be more along the lines of my Longshot. I still believe that he hardest most time consuming things to build on here are Boltsn!pers large homemades. But then again they arent a modification.

I like the idea of a rating system but the entire community would have to agree on a rating system for it to work.
The last thing I would want to see are people arguing over whether something is a 6 or a 7? We should have some kind of criteria.

Personally I like the idea.

However I would just like to say that the only hard thing about the Longshot is the breech. Everything else can be done if you take your time modifying things one step at a time. Especially with mounting the front gun. Measure 3 times and cut once kinda deal.

It would be kind of interesting to see different rating levels for different mods. I was all about the RPG's as a kid and it would be cool to have someone complete their first class 6 modification. Giving him the unspoken title of being a level 6 modder. I don't want to spearhead this idea but I will help out when I can. I got a promotion at work so I wont be able to even go on my computer now from Monday to Thursday night.
For the record in case anyone is wondering I am 95% finished my ultimate project. I dont want to read any posts about "what is it?" and all that jazz lets keep to the topic at hand.
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#25 Rambo

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 12:11 AM

I think the criteria should be determined by whomever is chosen to be the rater, and there should be some community discussion to add/remove any necessary/unnecessary ones. But, like I said, if someone disagrees with the rating, tough, every 7 should be just as hard(for the most part) for them.
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