49 replies to this topic

[Carbon]

I don't understand. You load the dart through the back, cock the gun forward, put an endcap on the back and fire? Is this how it works?

Then when you put on the endcap and shoot the gun, wouldn't the endcap fly off or hit you?

You can get endcaps that screw in so well they are nearly air-tight.

The impact of the plunger also isn't being taken entirely by the endcap. The reducing rings of PVC are all screwed in inthe back, so the only thing that could force out the plug is air pressure - but since the friction of popping out the dart is less than popping out the plug, the dart goes first.

[six-five-two]

I don't understand. You load the dart through the back, cock the gun forward, put an endcap on the back and fire? Is this how it works?

Then when you put on the endcap and shoot the gun, wouldn't the endcap fly off or hit you?

You can get endcaps that screw in so well they are nearly air-tight.

The impact of the plunger also isn't being taken entirely by the endcap. The reducing rings of PVC are all screwed in inthe back, so the only thing that could force out the plug is air pressure - but since the friction of popping out the dart is less than popping out the plug, the dart goes first.

I get it now. Thanks!

I am now going to make a homemade of my own... that won't be a failure like my Walloper.

[Prometheus]

I think I get it, instead of a plunger, the back of the bolt seals, and as it moves back, the air forces out the dart. Correct? Also, how about some measurements, it possible?

[Retiate]

Awsome, and very creative.
I'm pretty curious on the ranges too. With 2 of those Handyman springs, it's gotta be pretty strong. Just 1 is enough to propell a dart at least 60'-70'.
Very nice problem solving with the dart loading, I never would have thought of that.

[Carbon]

I think I get it, instead of a plunger, the back of the bolt seals, and as it moves back, the air forces out the dart. Correct?

Pretty much. Usually, the plunger makes a seal and moves forward, creating pressure at the base of the barrel. In this case, the barrel makes a seal and moves backwards…with the same net result.

[wallymaniac]

I think I get it, instead of a plunger, the back of the bolt seals, and as it moves back, the air forces out the dart. Correct?

Pretty much. Usually, the plunger makes a seal and moves forward, creating pressure at the base of the barrel. In this case, the barrel makes a seal and moves backwards…with the same net result.

If you used this technique, couldn't you make a gun that you wouldn't have to cock? How about attaching a barrel to the handle and using that to shove the barrel back, propelling the dart forwards?

[Quilan Fett]

I think I get it, instead of a plunger, the back of the bolt seals, and as it moves back, the air forces out the dart. Correct?

Pretty much. Usually, the plunger makes a seal and moves forward, creating pressure at the base of the barrel. In this case, the barrel makes a seal and moves backwards…with the same net result.

If you used this technique, couldn't you make a gun that you wouldn't have to cock? How about attaching a barrel to the handle and using that to shove the barrel back, propelling the dart forwards?

Yes. That is how a reactor works.

[Carbon]

I think I get it, instead of a plunger, the back of the bolt seals, and as it moves back, the air forces out the dart. Correct?

Pretty much. Usually, the plunger makes a seal and moves forward, creating pressure at the base of the barrel. In this case, the barrel makes a seal and moves backwards…with the same net result.

If you used this technique, couldn't you make a gun that you wouldn't have to cock? How about attaching a barrel to the handle and using that to shove the barrel back, propelling the dart forwards?

You could do that. I call them “ramrocket” guns, and they have their own kinds of problems. Mainly, firing power is dependant on how hard you pull it, and they’re inaccurate (due to wobbling from pulling your hands). The other problem is that the air tends to be “slow”, so you need more of it, resulting in a bigger gun.

[Yazzeh]

I'm curious as to how the gun actually gets cocked. I understand how everything else works, but how do you cock it? Do you pull the barrel forwards or what?

[Carbon]

I'm curious as to how the gun actually gets cocked. I understand how everything else works, but how do you cock it? Do you pull the barrel forwards or what?

Yup.

For another visualization, take a regular SNAP, where the plunger rod is hollow. Remove the barrel and seal off that end. Put a big hole in the plunger head. Now, fire it as usual. The air which used to vent out the barrel will now rush out the plunger rod, due to the hole in the plunger head. So, the plunger rod becomes the barrel.

[Carrtoon]

(Sorry for the delayed replies guys, I had to return my laptop to the college because I'm transferring next year. I ordered and received my new laptop yesterday and it kicks!)

Haha, Pineapple. Thanks. I would paint it another color, but what else would fit?! Anyone have some suggestions? And don't worry, I'll be around most of the summer. I won't be on as much as I was, but I'll post some new mods and things every now and again.

Thanks Carbon. Most of the ideas were yours and I thank you for them. Oh, and I'll have to give that super glue a shot. What brand do you use? Loctite? The gel kind?

Thanks for the ideas Captain Slug. I may need to use a rail to keep the handle and clip on. I have yet to find an adhesive that will keep them on. I also attached a stretchy nylon cord to keep the cap on the back. I bet a hinge would work quite nicely if you could mount it. Any ideas?

Thanks Meaker. Is there a specific brand of putty that you use? Link?

Haha, thanks NerfFreak.

Commonly Hunted, I made both the clip and the handle out of round PVC pipe. All you have to do is crank up the oven to about 250 degrees and the stuff is easily moldable. Kind of like plexiglass. Just watch it if you go up to 300. If you don't rotate it, it may turn to hot, bubbly plastic. I also placed a rectangular piece of wood inside the pvc that kept it straight when I pressed it. Make sure you use gloves because this stuff gets pretty hot. My dad's leather welding gloves worked great.

Tacticaladvantagex5, I hope to use this as my new primary. I just need to bond the clip and the handle to the gun and I'll be set. Just a guess, but I think this thing may reach 70-100' flat, depending on how much I can reduce the plunger friction.

And yes, Carbon, you pretty much have this gun down. The only thing I did differently than your description is the cap in the back of the gun. I made the plunger rod (barrel) hit the cap out so I could easily reload without twisting it off. I have a stretchy bungee cord attached to the clothespin coil and then to the cap. That way I won't hit me in the eye when aiming and I'll be set to load as soon as the gun fires.

Now, if anyone is still confused about how this gun works, look at Carbon's SNAP. I made the exact same plunger head and rod, but it is indeed hollow. So the plunger rod doubles as a barrel. I also have a metal lathe here at home, so I machined a slot for an o-ring to fit in as apposed to a gasket. The only other detail that is different inside of the gun is that I machined an aluminum cover (aluminum tubing) for the plunger head so it won't take as much damage from all of the cocking and shooting.

So, take Carbon's SNAP, reverse the motion of the plunger, and make the plunger rod hollow. Now, all you have to do is load the dart in the very back of the gun, cock it, cap it, and shoot. It maximizes the air volume in the chamber because the dart is in the very back and you aren't creating any kind of vacuum. If anyone is still confused, say so and I'll open it up and show you the internals.

[Quilan Fett]

I'd paint it forest green.

Edited by Qui'lan Fett, 17 May 2007 - 08:16 PM.

[Carbon]

Thanks Carbon. Most of the ideas were yours and I thank you for them.

No prob...I really like seeing how the general ideas get changed around and improved. You solved two of the issues that I've always had with the design; that long stick hanging out the back, and the overall length of the gun.

Oh, and I'll have to give that super glue a shot. What brand do you use? Loctite? The gel kind?

Pretty much anything that the Dollar Store has at any given moment. Gel would probably help a lot in the application, but I tend to have the runny kind. It all works the same, though.

And yes, Carbon, you pretty much have this gun down. The only thing I did differently than your description is the cap in the back of the gun. I made the plunger rod (barrel) hit the cap out so I could easily reload without twisting it off.

Clever. I was wondering about the twisting you'd need to do.

If anyone is still confused, say so and I'll open it up and show you the internals.

Just what i was gonna ask...if you could, I'd like to see what your plunger looks like. Oh, and could you give us a pic relative to, say, a Nitefinder? It's hard to tell just how large this beast is.

[Meaker VI]

Thanks Meaker. Is there a specific brand of putty that you use? Link?

No specific brand or anything; I got a 5" tube of the stuff from Wallmart for something like $4. I've heard that you can get it from Home Depot also, but I'm pretty sure that you could get it at just about any half-decent hardware store. It's not exactly the cheapest stuff to buy, but you can mold it to any shape and it hardens to practically invincible.

I think I should work on my homemade now...

[CaptainSlug]

Thanks for the ideas Captain Slug. I may need to use a rail to keep the handle and clip on. I have yet to find an adhesive that will keep them on. I also attached a stretchy nylon cord to keep the cap on the back. I bet a hinge would work quite nicely if you could mount it. Any ideas?

If the frame rail goes all the way to the back and is thicker than 3/16" you could drill and thread a hole at the end of the rail. Then use a screw for the cover to hinge on.
The cover could have a nub in the center of it and be either spring-loaded at the screw, or have the nub seal using an o-ring.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 17 May 2007 - 10:40 PM.

[Carrtoon]

Nice. I'll have to try that in the near future.

Here's a pic of it relative to a Nitefinder and a Maverick:



As you can see, it isn't really all that big.

And 3 pics of the plunger assembly:



You can see how banged up the aluminum is already. Now imagine what I saw after I used only plastic. The trigger pin I used was a cut off cotter pin. It has yet to bend.



This is where the dart is loaded, right into the plunger head ^



Greasemonkey! I actually used an old bottle of Xmod gear grease to lube it (anyone remember those!).

Anything else I can answer?

[wallymaniac]

I never realized it was so small! Congrats!

[Ronster]

I never realized it was so small

That's what she said.


So is it like a mav/scout pluger assembly (reverse plunger), only insted of pulling the PC back, it's the barrel?

[NerfFreak]

The colors that come to mind are fire truck red, magenta, robin's egg blue, teal, and cerulean.

Hot pink?

[PvtMcFlurry]

That looks amazing! I want one. Can you post ranges though please. I am very curious about this things power.

~McFlurry

[LastManAlive]

I see your spring is pretty small in diameter and you have fit it over some CPVC. Is there any friction on the spring from you putting it there that might cause it to slow plunger traveling? Just a thought.

Nice homemade too. I like it. I like the handle mostly. Very unique. I assume you used heat acheive the curved details near the top and bottom of the handle?

[bored kid93]

Now that I realize, the reverse plunger method is extremely similar to the one in my homemade , except that my homemade is pump action and has no trigger group or springs, and it's larger since mine is a rifle. Wallymaniac basically just described my homemade for me.

Edited by bored_kid93, 19 May 2007 - 05:59 PM.

[Prometheus]

The LS front gun is similar, but the PC moves instead of the barrel. If anybody is confused, use your imagination with that in mind. The Barrel moves instead of the PC, but it is the same physical setup in regards to the seal interface.

[Prometheus]

Just an idea for a rear seal, you could have a large end cap with an L-shape notch cut in it, that will slide over and rotate on two screws stuck into the side. Then add an O-ring or some other sealable material inside to seal.

Still worried about seal? Add an O-ring onto the end of the barrel, then slide an end cap in. Glue the small endcap onto the Large on from part one. Then, slide on the endcap, rotate, and a nice seal is obtained.