17 replies to this topic

[agentM192]

I just got an idea; why not make an electronic nerf gun? I'm talking one that runs solely on a rechargeable or replaceable battery. So it could be true semi-automatic (You don't have to cock it; only reload it.) They make electronic paintball guns that shoot insanely fast, like 30 balls per second*, but use an air tank. So maybe just using a battery could keep it safe( r ).
*Average stock paintball gun shoots around 8-10 BPS.

Edited by agentM192, 12 December 2006 - 09:21 PM.

[munson20]

There have been many posts like this where people have radical Ideas about ridiculous guns, but I support you. I even had a topic about this exact same thing... when I was a new, but thats the past.

The only tangible way to do this would be the same way an AEG airsfot gun works where a spinning gear pushes back a plunger to cock it, then the plunger shoots when the gear turns once. It is possible, but it would need a very powerful motor because airsoft bullets are easier to shoot than nerf dart.

[CaptainSlug]

Working on this myself it didn't take very long to realize that the mechanical energy required to prime the plunger in your typical Nerf gun is actually VERY large (a minimum of 20 pounds and upwards of 100 pounds when you start usingheavier springs). You average child, per-pound, can provide way more mechanical energy per hour than a 12v sealed lead acid battery weighing close to 20 pounds, powering a heavy 12v slow cycle speed gear motor.
BB guns and airsoft weapons get off easy because the volume of air they need to work with is much smaller because the projectiles are so small and light.
The only portable energy storage that is capable of sustained fire with Nerf projectiles is an HPA or Co2 tank meant for paintball. But considering those are anything but child friendly it turns Nerf guns into something that technically is no longer normal Nerf.

There's also the issue that few ever bother to touch on: Cost. Children's toys are inexpensive because children don't have disposable income nor do they traditionally have the considerable sway needed to purchase items more expensive than $50.
All those extra parts add extra cost. Which is why battery or air tank operated airsoft weapons cost so much. Scale up the size of the projectile and you have to scale up the battery, motor, and mechanism.

Frankly it's not that feasible for mass production.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 13 December 2006 - 12:22 AM.

[anders]

CaptainSlug, on Dec 13 2006, 06:20 AM, said:

Working on this myself it didn't take very long to realize that the mechanical energy required to prime the plunger in your typical Nerf gun is actually VERY large (a minimum of 20 pounds and upwards of 100 pounds when you start usingheavier springs). You average child, per-pound, can provide way more mechanical energy per hour than a 12v sealed lead acid battery weighing close to 20 pounds, powering a heavy 12v slow cycle speed gear motor.
BB guns and airsoft weapons get off easy because the volume of air they need to work with is much smaller because the projectiles are so small and light.
The only portable energy storage that is capable of sustained fire with Nerf projectiles is an HPA or Co2 tank meant for paintball. But considering those are anything but child friendly it turns Nerf guns into something that technically is no longer normal Nerf.

There's also the issue that few ever bother to touch on: Cost. Children's toys are inexpensive because children don't have disposable income nor do they traditionally have the considerable sway needed to purchase items more expensive than $50.
All those extra parts add extra cost. Which is why battery or air tank operated airsoft weapons cost so much. Scale up the size of the projectile and you have to scale up the battery, motor, and mechanism.

Frankly it's not that feasible for mass production.

I don't belive agentm192 is thinking about mass production. I belive he is thinking about making an electronic homemade nerf gun. And some of the homemades aren't possible to massproduce like your heavy gattling gun.


I don't belive it can be a so big difference when it comes to the power requierd to launch a nerfdart compared to a bb. Take a look at this. The black thing to the right with the orange thing on it is a lasertek cylinder and the one below it is a airsoft cylinder. They have the same thickness but the airsoft cylinder is a litttle bit shorter. If the cylinders and plungers are almost the same size the difference most be in the spring. And all of us knows that softairgun springs are long and very hard to depress and nerf springs are shorter and a lot easier to depress. If you change the gears in a aeg I'am sure you can make cock a nerf plunger.

The aeg on the picture is a cheap well uzi.

[SPU-Nerf]

http://www.youtube.c...related&search=
http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

[anders]

SPU-Nerf, on Dec 13 2006, 07:52 PM, said:

http://www.youtube.c...related&search=
http://www.youtube.c...related&search=

Sure this is a electrical nerf gun but this is not what we are talking about. It doesn't work like a AEG (automatic electric gun). This is just the same as the crappy buzzbeetoys autoguns(mech6) but home made and seems to have a lot better performance.

[agentM192]

It doesn't have to be homemade, but it's just an idea for Hasbro. And if you're saying you can't mass produce electronic guns, then why do they mass produce electronic paintball and airsoft guns?

[Retiate]

agentM192, on Dec 13 2006, 12:31 PM, said:

It doesn't have to be homemade, but it's just an idea for Hasbro. And if you're saying you can't mass produce electronic guns, then why do they mass produce electronic paintball and airsoft guns?

Because Nerf already has semi and full auto guns. Air powered guns, you just pump them up beforehand. No need for some loud, heavy motor. And they mass produce electronic airsoft and paintball guns because they sell for over $100 a piece.

Oh, and they do have an electronic Nerf gun. It's that Tommy 20 gun. It shoots darts the same way a pitching machine launches baseballs, and the trigger just pushes the dart into the spinning wheels.

[agentM192]

I think you're missing the point. I'm talking so you don't have to pump it up; just turn it on and let er' rip.

[Retiate]

Yeah, I see the advantages of electronic guns. You can duel wield them easier, and reload time is cut down a bunch. Me and a couple friends have thought of quite a few ways to make a semi auto pistol that doesn't require pumping.
Maybe a good electronic gun would be like a regular air powered gun, but it would have a small electronic pump to fill a bladder, and it would have an overpressure release valve so it wouldn't get too full. Though it would take a while to initially fill the gun up.

If you could get one with fair ranges, then the gun would be pretty good. As long as it's not extremely loud.

[shoeshine5]

Perhaps this image would help as well

http://en.wikipedia....i/Image:AEG.gif

Edited by shoeshine5, 13 December 2006 - 11:35 PM.

[CaptainSlug]

Yeah... but go up to the photograph anders posted and look at how insanely small the plunger spring is.

I was trying to point out that Hasbro is never going to do it because the parts required to make such a gun would result in a product with a price point that is outside of their target market (Ages 6+). The finished weapon would end up being the same price as a mid-range airsoft gun.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 December 2006 - 06:11 AM.

[Pineapple]

CaptainSlug, on Dec 14 2006, 01:04 AM, said:

I was trying to point out that Hasbro is never going to do it because the parts required to make such a gun would result in a product with a price point that is outside of their target market (Ages 6+). The finished weapon would end up being the same price as a mid-range airsoft gun.

Sluggo in and of himself basically got the whole point down in two sentences.

While it is probably possible with enough R&D, the cost to design and produce such a toy drives the price right out of the "cheap toy" category.

I cannot imagine why anyone would want something matching the description of an "electronic firing Nerf gun requiring no pumping or loading", when you can get the similar result with airsoft Mini AEGs, though they aren't the best lookin', in terms of "realistic gun look" (which I'm not overly concerned about anyway.)


Nerf was designed to be a low-to-moderate cost toy gun alternative for small kids 6 and up. Most of us modifiers fix up Nerf blasters primarily to make them a bit more fun for older kids (much older sometimes). The play style of Nerf is consistent with the primary types of weapons available, which are generally one-shot, reloadable weapons, and some air-powered multi-shots, but generally not extreme firepower as the standard. Attempting to increase firepower to paintball-type levels with Nerf is absurd, even if only by the notion that while paintballs and airsoft pellets are basically "disposable", Nerf darts aren't, and I'm trying to imagine pickin' up 2-300 darts after a couple good "sprays" at the opponents.

Were I to want spray-and-pray ability, I'd simply make the move toward low-cost full-sized AEGs. Not desiring my kids to be pointing authentic sized weapons at each other (yet), I've kept them to Nerf, which they are more than happy to continue playing. Either that, or I'd go and pick up a couple of Spyders and take my kids on with my Phantom VSC.


anders--why don't you try an experiment to support your theory that an airsoft sized plunger and tube can propel a Nerf dart out of a barrel assembly similar to what you're proposing....

....I can tell you if it does work, it wouldn't be sufficient to support a rapid-fire weapon concept.

With AS and PB, you're working with spheres, which are fed by something as simple as a tube. Balls roll, they move toward the firing area by gravity or a spring feed, and out they go! With Nerf darts, it's completely different...the Longshot and it's alignment, feeding and firing mechanisms should clue you in that it's remote that they can even want to attempt to electrically increase feed and fire speed, not to mention the size of a magazine/clip into such a design.


So, I'm in agreement with Slug...nice theory, nice dreams, not likely to happen. Many of us enjoy paintball (I used to play Stock Class), or airsoft, for their uniqueness from Nerf. Each sport/hobby should be enjoyed for it's unique qualities rather than try to bastardize something that would attempt to make a "one gun to satisfy all" dealy.

It seems as though we discussed this before, but okay to throw around.



-Piney-

[agentM192]

I wonder if Hasbro knows about people like us, and if they like us or not. They probably do because we buy lots of them. They don't like the fact that we take air restrictors, which is just about the blasters on means of a safety feature.


I wonder if Hasbro knows about people like us, and if they like us or not. They probably do because we buy lots of them. They don't like the fact that we take air restrictors, which is just about the blasters on means of a safety feature. I got an idea earlier, to make a full auto gun without pumping. You pull back a handle, that turns a gear counter-clockwise. So the gear launches the darts. The trigger holds the gear, and when you squeeze it, it let's the darts rip. So you'll actually see the cocking handle moving in as you fire it. There would have to be some kind of clip system that is spring loaded, so you could shoot it fast enough. I don't know if this has been made or thought of before, but I know a gear shoots darts in some gun. Hasbro could possibly target an older audience, where price isn't as big a deal.

[NiteWalker]

Dude what in the world are you talking about? Nerf isn't meant at all for people that are old enough for airsoft etc. Didn't you read Piney's post? If you're so desperate for some kind of semi-auto electric gun just airsoft. Also, of course Hasbro knows about us! Guess why NerfHaven has three representatives going to Hasbro every year or so? And for the like us or not part, they'd like us for buying their products and I don't think they mind us modding because they have their warning on the box that protects them. Make you're own homemade electric nerf gun if you want one so badly, but most of us here are content with a LongShot or whatever else there is.

[agentM192]

Alright settle down. I was wrong. I'm still pretty new. It was just an idea.

[Substance Abuse]

agentM192, on Dec 14 2006, 07:02 PM, said:

Alright settle down. I was wrong. I'm still pretty new. It was just an idea.

You have been here longer than I have... How are you new?

[agentM192]

I posted a couple times, then left for a long time, then came back. That's how.