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#1 PharaonArin

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:50 PM

Ok i had an idea. Or more precisly a few. What if some one made a lightweight portable bunker that could possibly fold up or something like that. It couldn't be too big or else it would be pointles to make unless you were guarding a flag or something like that. I was thinking reenforced cardboard or something like that. I might try and build one so any feedback would be appreciated.
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#2 CROW

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 10:50 PM

Well, I suppose that the ability to set up a bunker would add a new dimension to the game, but I can easily see long, pointless battles as a result. At least from my point of view, nerf is a game based more on stealth, mainly because a nerf gun does not have the range or ROF as a real gun.

But then again, I could be totally wrong, and that in adding bunkers will, as I said before, add a new dimension to the game. I guess that it will have to be tested out to get a reliable sense of how it ties in with everything else.

Anyways, enough of my rambling and nice idea.
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#3 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 11:16 PM

Well, if you want to fold this thing up, then where you fold will be directly affected by the ratio of the full size versus the folded-up size. (I.e., a 4:1 ratio, respectively, would mean that you would have to fold the bunker in a cross to form four equal subsections that then fold onto each other.) Another reason this might be tricky is the fact that you need to cut along those creases to fold the bunker up, but those cuts could catch on something, tear, and then drastically reduce the effectiveness of the bunker. Another element to consider is how you will carry such a defense into the field if it is to be mobile. The person(s) carrying the folded unit have two choices: 1) strap it to their back(s) or something, which requires putting holes and a strap into the design, which could catch and rip holes or be too short and prevent the bunker from fully unfolding; or 2) carry it by hand and be unable to return fire to opposing teams.

However, should you get this done, I'd like to know the effect on strategies and gameplay.

Edited by SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA, 04 November 2006 - 11:17 PM.

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#4 tcorr911

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 11:24 PM

If I need one I usually just use a pillow. :D
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#5 LastManAlive

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 11:36 PM

I agree that wars would be somewhat long, but after playing so many games of run, shoot, get hit, run back, rinse, and repeat, I could def. get used to that.

I would love to catch a 3 day period when school endds to have a large scale, war style game. I'm talking like, at least 25 on 25.

I know that there are a lot of wars and get togethers that do have around that many sometimes, but they are the same as having small, 5 on 5 wars. Run, shoot, get hit, run back, rinse and repeat. And because of those types of games, we only stick to those types of games thus leading to us saying that there is no place for a milsim game style in nerf.

So I say we have a plan for these large scale wars.

My idea would to have a captain (general) for each team. Then, we have different people sign up for the team they want to be on. Yes, we would have odd teams, so we balance them after one round of regular nerfing. After that first prelim game, we decide the other ranks going in order of highest score (kills) down to who joined first. The next rounds, we supply enough tents and such for basically a 2 day camp. Each team tries to find a way overrun the other team. It would basically by a war game. We can go futher in depth with this, but lets leave that to someone to start a topic for it.

This would be a joint decision on when and where to meet, so there is no host of the game.

Each person would be in charge of food, with small food runs if nessicary.

So your bunker idea would come in handy especially for those that would be moving up on the field.
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#6 murakumo32

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 02:06 AM

I have some prototype bunker ideas running around my head, and some are posted on my wall.

Simple 3x3 Nylon "Foxhole"

In a nutshell, it's 2 3' by 3' PVC square "skeletons" connected by a "side outlet 90" that looks like this"
Posted Image

Velcro is attached to the top of the long side of a 6' long piece of nylon fabric. The other side of the Velcro is attached to the PVC skeleton. Once you attach the two together, you have a DVD (dart velocity dampener). No matter have powerful the shot, it will never break through (proof of concept with a titan) the fabric since the is no tension in the fabric. If you make it out of 1/2" CPVC, it will be very lightweight.

i have more, but most aren't "portable".
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#7 Retiate

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 02:34 AM

Making Bunkers is a good idea. But making them portable... I dunno. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it would be very helpful. There's always trees, bushes, trashcans, and such to hide behind. The only time I could see this being very useful would be when playing on a baseball or soccer field. But then that was probably intentionally played on so there was no cover.
And I think it might cause a lot of confusion. If someone shot at you, and it hit your folded up bunker, are you dead?

Though, for larger wars on a larger playing field, these would be really interesting.
It would also add in a bunch of new games you could play. Like, you could have 4 of these pocket bunkers evenly spread out, and teams would have to control them or something.
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#8 Vyperaeon Omega

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 03:02 AM

Transportation would be a problem, not only on foot but in vehicles on the way to battle sites as well. A van or SUV might hold one of these bunkers, but I doubt a large amount of them could be moved in a single vehicle due to the dimensional constraints of automobile interiors. As for portable bunkers being practical, useful, or fun, that's for each group of Nerfers to decide. It sounds like an interesting idea, and I'm looking forward to any results the starter of this topic produces.
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#9 schoute1587

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 09:34 AM

If you want a lightweight bunker, you could use 1/2 inch pvc and the connector pieces so you could take it apart when you put it in the car.
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#10 Pineapple

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 11:39 AM

Okay....


....the word "bunker" evokes several images in my mind, of which some were expressed here on the forum.


1) A bunker, by military terms, could mean some sort of emplacement, of material designed to resist most small arms fire (therefore concrete is the preferred material, though steel, heavy wood, etc. have been used), and oftentimes utilizing the existing surroundings (i.e., partially buried or abutted to a hill or other prominent landmass). This is what LastManAlive and Shadow hunter alpha have in mind, being that they play way too many war video games. :(

2) Paintballers tend to think of "bunker" as the many Sup'Air inflatables that are available with excellent names like "Snake", "Brick", "Dorito", "Cone", "Burger", and other such delicacies. They provide cover and visual obstruction for fun.


I tend to lean toward number 2. Mainly again because of my opinions about Nerf, but that's not the point.


Retiate seemed to have the point down...there are usually lots of things to take advantage of to use as cover and obstruction. Falcon and the SoCal guys bring their own trashcans, lots of them, to utilize as bunkers in open areas, or so I'm told.

Murakumo has a good point about collapsible structures. My son has a play house shaped like a rectangle and colored as a Fire Engine. It is made of spring wires for the framework, and a nylon typed material that allows light in, but is opaque enough to hide kids. I think that's where he's going with that idea...and a 3 x 3 "foxhole" would be pretty cool to use. And yes, they resist micro stefans from my SM5000, and they don't tear through (phew!)

Vyperaeon makes another good point. Most of the currently active posters at NerfHaven are probably not driving age (and sometimes I wonder if they're even 13, by the content of the posts), much less own vehicles that would hold multiple bunkers (for example, a dozen 33 gallon trashcans). But the collapsible bunker idea was once explored by cxwq, and I did some playing around also with PVC framing as schoute had mentioned. I don't have the finances for yards and yards of ripstop nylon fabrics, but I do have in my housekeeping department, a lot of old bedsheets...hmmm.

Maybe not 1/2" PVC...that'd be way too flimsy unless you made it really tiny. 3/4 inch PVC is a good bridge between strength (up to 5' sections with almost no flex (SCH40 gray conduit), and lighter than 1" (also cheaper). You've got me thinkin' again.

I just went back to the Fire Engine...it's made by a company called Playhut. They make all those collapsible play structures, ball houses, etc. Here is a link to their products page. Although most of their toys are way too small for most of us here. I can barely fit in the Fire Engine with my kids. I'd rather hide behind a trash can.

Although, for indoor wars, 60 bucks for the mega playset would make some awesome bunkers in a large living room.

I have a day off today...and an idea.



-Piney-
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<!--quoteo(post=209846:date=Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM:name=boom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(boom @ Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM) View Post</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
It's to bad you live in hawaii I bet there are not many wars there.Wait what am I saying<b> you live in hawaii you lucky bastard.</b>
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#11 elf avec gun

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 12:43 PM

Tent anyone?

If you go to Dick's sporting goods, you will occasionally find, in the clearance isle, some "unpopular tents" the ones that no one liked so no one bought. I bought a five person tent (well really a three person because that is all that it can fit comfortably, have you seen those pictures of the sillouet bodys inside the tent? its insanity!) but anyways I bought the tent for like $25! It is a fairly large one too. Perhaps I was just alittle biased against the tent not being comfortable because I am kindof a big guy (6'5").

Of course there is the downside of: it takes awhile to set up. But whatever. its just an idea.


Piney, I like that PVC + bedsheets thing. One could make a trip to goodwill or the army surplus store, and get some cloth/bedsheets for cheap. Or someother cheap cloth.


As a whole I really like this idea, It could add a whole new level for nerfing. If we had a really big war (like 50+ people) and had it be a two or three day event, where everyone came and camped. Wouldnt it be really cool to nerf around these tents?!

The simple fox hole idea is cool too. The thought that pops into my head is a game of ambush played in some really wooded area, and you cover the fox hole with leaves and branches. But that might be too mili-sim for some of you.

Edited by elf_avec_gun, 05 November 2006 - 12:44 PM.

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#12 Rambo

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 01:19 PM

I think a tent could easily turn into a goatfuck. One guy, one RF20 or whatever that new powerclip like gun is called. He needs to come up behind and creep around the side. He pokes his gun inside, you're all gone.
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#13 SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 02:23 PM

Piney:
Yes, I do play too many war video games.

Back on topic:
You could use paintball bunkers, but those cost assloads of money and take up quite a bit of space even when rolled up. (I used to ref. paintball games as my summer "job," and I kept tripping over the damn things.) Those kind of bunkers are only good for the holy grails of nerf wars like Armageddon. The Playhut tents are way too small to fit inside, like Piney said, but they could be used as a non-enterable structure like paintball bunkers.

What I thought of yesterday after I logged off was using just sheets of plywood nailed between trees if you play on private woolded land. (I saw something in the nerf wars section about someone playing on his relative's land) Plywood is cheap, and once you nail it, it doesn't heve to ever be moved again. However, getting it to where you want it in the first place will require some friends and an afternoon. I suppose the same effect could be had by bedsheets or clear, flexible polyvinyl sheets tacked or hung from high places or trees. murakumo32 had a good idea with that PVC foxhole thing, since it's light and easy to set up if you pre-glue the framework into seperate connectable sides for easy carry. If I see anything else while I am on the internet, I'll post about it and see what you think. The only real way to do this is to look around for ideas until you find something you like.
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#14 Team Slaya

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 03:49 PM

The war that I was at during the summer, when OMC and the NJ crew came up, was great. We used a woodsy area, before many leaves had fallen. There were plenty of trees, and they worked really well. Even with a slightly more open area, it still worked out.

I personally don't think that they'll be that useful, for the work/effort/money put into them. The use of natural cover could work - You could stack some firewood somewhere, find a woodsy area, etc. But building PVC or other kinds of cover just seems like too much work for not enough payoff. But, if you've got nothing else to do, more power to ya.

Cool ideas, guys.

TS

Edited by Team_Slaya, 05 November 2006 - 03:51 PM.

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#15 elf avec gun

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 04:47 PM

I think a tent could easily turn into a goatfuck. One guy, one RF20 or whatever that new powerclip like gun is called. He needs to come up behind and creep around the side. He pokes his gun inside, you're all gone.


You dont necessarly have to use the inside of the tent. I was just brainstorming possible things that could be transported easily and would cover a large amount of space when constructed. and would be used as an obstical.

Plus most tents have a tent flap that can have a lock put into the tippers.And it is alot easier to fit a gun like the nightfinder through a small hole than an rf20, pc, or a magstrike. But those would give them a bit of an unfair advantage. They could just make a wall of pillows and sleeping bags inside of there and hide behind those. coverd from all directions. But can anyone say "bunker-busters"
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#16 PharaonArin

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 05:39 PM

Piney i will try that kind of idea. And yes i sorta am basing it of of the paintball bunkers. I realized that the tents would turn into a foamy death bath. Collapsible is probably a good idea for this. Thanks to everyone who gave me information.
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#17 blinkycc13

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 06:52 PM

Why not just take large peices of cardboard and duct tape them together? Unless you're playing with some really high power guns, they'll hold. Just take two pieces and duct tape them together at the edge for a "hinge." The only problem I see is getting them to stand, which could take some brainstorming.
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QUOTE(Dark Shrimp @ Nov 10 2006, 11:06 PM) View Post

This is called a screwdriver it is used to unscrew or screw in screws.

#18 Cmdrmack

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 09:40 PM

How about a lightweight PVC or CPVC frame with paper from those big rolls of newsprint type stuff. The paper would stop most darts, but would probably rip when hit with say, a Titan. Voila, destructable bunkers that don't encourage the use of an AAMR to punch through. The roll would be expensive the first time, but it'd also last you a while. A roll of paper that's four feet long, plus lengths of PVC that aren't much longer, and a roll of duct tape and you'd be set.
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#19 murakumo32

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 12:26 AM

I went to Home Depot yesterday on a supply run. I found some locking hinges that fold up when you press a button. I'm was thinking about it for a while and it finally finalized.

If I take my simple foxhole idea and add locking hinges onto it instead of PVC elbows, you could fold the frame up with the fabric intact and sling it around your back and move on. The only problem is that I didn't find any 180* hinges that locked, so it might be a bit bulkier than I would like when you fold it up.

I can't find the right way to word this, so if it doesn't make sense to you, I'm sorry.

If I find some 180* locking hinges (for a good price) I'll buy some and post a finished product.
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#20 navy seal

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 03:37 PM

I have 8 larges cardboard boxes that I use for cover. One of them was for a door and the rest were for cabinets or large appliances. They can be folded up flat and stored very easily. The best thing was I got them for FREEfrom my neighbor because they were moving and I got a couple more when the new people moved in. You could probably go to Home Depot or another store that sells large things and ask for boxes (their going to throw them away anyway)
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#21 Cthulhu

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 03:28 AM

Please note that even is you got a dart to break through cardboard it probably wouldn't hit you, the dart will probably be destroyed if it hit something that hard, and if you idea of fun is making a gun that gives people welts after your super dart fired from your super "nerf" gun has punched through a few layers of cardboard then you are stupid and need to find another hobby, like Russian roulette with a glock.
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#22 The Inventor Guy

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 04:55 AM

Hang on, am I missing something?
I've got two things to say...
1) My friends and I usually play speedball type games in our backyards - using tables, chairs and any other outdoor furniture around, with a cloth or bedsheet draped over it to block the gaps.
The games are fun, usually hilarious and fast. No slow games.

2) Not shooting through paper or Cardboard? Mate, are you guys just shooting foam blanks or something? We've tried using cardboard (corrugated, packaging stuff) and darts shot from Nite Finders, Air Techs of sorts and other guns like those shoot through no problem. Let alone paper screens. I'm talking about stefans, too.

Anyway, getting relevant to what you're looking for.
I couldn't make a better suggestion for a frame than PVC or similar tubes, perhaps those resin fibre shafts (as used in kites) ? They're only like 3 or 4mm thick, but can splinter if messed with too much or left outside too long.
Anyway, as for the walls, what about the rip-stop nylon material? This is also used in kites. Rip-stop is a type of material that literally stops ripping. If you look at it closely you can see a 5mm grid/squares, which are basically reinforcements. This is light weight, flexible and tough. It can come in all sorts of colours, thicknesses and strengths. I bought some black cotton/polyester ripstop for holsters. It's great stuff.

I hope I made any good suggestions! :D

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#23 l337n3rf3r

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:22 PM

You could go to a craft store and buy the folding cardboard used for presentations. They are only like 4-5 dollars each. If you wanted to make them stronger just tape like 2 or 3 together.

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