370 replies to this topic

[Commonly Hunted]

If you are making the mag tube below the barrel, you need shells. If you don't want shells, you have to make the tube above the barrel and then make it gravity fed like Ompa's shotgun.

Of course we considered no shells. Every time someone brings up shells, someone else says they'd prefer not having shells. But most of us are going for realistic. That means we need shells. Not just because it would make the gun seem more realistic and cool but because it would be the only way imaginable to make the gun work like a real one.

But if you have figured out how to make one without shells, please show us because that would make everybody love you.

[Pineapple]

Just curious...

Anyone set a timeline to actually get something done?

All I've seen so far are some drawings, some pictures of shotguns clipped from varying websites, some gibberish from howstuffoworks.com, and a whole lot of idea tossing, excuses for delays (school, etc.), and basically kind of running in circles on something that hasn't gone past a pen tube, spring, and nail.


Some forum veterans (other forums, not this one) would call this a form of post count jacking...as though post count were some form of seniority around here.

It may or may not be the case, but for those who aren't aware, at NerfHaven, the ONLY way of developing any semblance of seniority around these parts is TIME. The longer you've been around the block, the more you can expect to be believed and respected. Which is not much since most of the senior members and admins could give a rip about respect anyway. We're just here to Nerf, and build wicked things.

Most people wouldn't build even a doghouse without a set plan...which includes a reasonable timetable. I understand you're still figuring out theories and crap like that, but heck, I don't believe you're all going to build the EXACT same homemade piece, right?

It would just be nice to see something beyond posts after almost two months of chatting. Talio is back, so I won't even speculate on his opinion of such matters.



-Piney-

[Meaker VI]

Just curious...

Anyone set a timeline to actually get something done?

With all due respect Pineapple; Yes, I have a timetable. I do not have access to materials or equipement while at school, since I live in a dorm and don't (yet) own a dremel, and while at school I don't have a car to haul stuff around in. My timetable for building will start Sunday and end Jan. 8th. If I do not have a complete proto-type by then (all the parts and functioning desing), or a dremel, then for me this project gets shelved.

That's for everyone to know, if I don't get it done soon (when I get home) I probably never will.

I'm also aware of the over-posting taboo, and I try to keep things down to 1 post a day at the most, although with this topic active I've been going over that. Having a fairly solid design down now and a test tommorow and then travel, I'll try to make my next post one with success. Although to give fair warning that may not be for weeks since I hear that back home they've got the biggest windstorm in the past 10 years and that means power failure for everyone.

[edits] I had suggested we move to the PM's, but Piny has ruled that we may carry on; just so long as some of us turn something usefull out.

Edited by Meaker VI, 16 December 2006 - 01:06 AM.

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

Just curious...

Anyone set a timeline to actually get something done?


All I've seen so far are some drawings, some pictures of shotguns clipped from varying websites, some gibberish from howstuffoworks.com, and a whole lot of idea tossing, excuses for delays (school, etc.), and basically kind of running in circles on something that hasn't gone past a pen tube, spring, and nail.


It would just be nice to see something beyond posts after almost two months of chatting. Talio is back, so I won't even speculate on his opinion of such matters.



-Piney-

I was actually going out to get some materials for the plunger and bolt this weekend, and hopefully build the carrier assembly by Christmas break. (That "pen tube" was only a prototype, but it works pretty damn good.)

P.S.: I read the post Talio had on the homepage, and I'm in no hurry to piss him off. Expect something done from me soon...

[Commonly Hunted]

My shotgun is actually being built as part of my Science Fair experiment. I have to make this gun over Christmas break along with those Boltsniper guns I'm selling.

But right now, I'm busy with General Cole's FAR and JurassicPark's and RAMBO's GNSs. I know almost exactly how I'm building my shotgun but I need to get some 3/4" PVC thin-wall because that is the thing I need most. And, of course, the magtube spring.

Edited by Commonly Hunted, 15 December 2006 - 04:09 PM.

[Pineapple]

Nah Meaker, keep the dialogue here, it's gone 9 pages already and it would seem a waste to cut it off before any products actually come out.

I'm just curious when something actually will become of this. SHA had posted in the beginning of the thread that he was intending to "make" a Nerf "shotgun".

I'm trying to make a nerf shotgun, and I'm open to suggestions. Zero, if you're reading, I ask permission for your genius silencer design, and Boltsniper for his brilliant trigger system.

When I say "Shotgun," I'm referring to the way the weapon loads shells into a magazine below the barrel and how the pump cycles the weapon. The design is similar to Boltsniper's SCAR-N.

One more thing, I'm a noob. Deal with it.

I was under the impression that he had already had more than a sketch in mind, and that he was in the process of fabricating something. Most of us who post in the homemades section who actually had a finished product had some plans and drawings long BEFORE posting anything.


This topic thread basically is a concept dialogue, and while it's commendable to have some activity on the forum, it would be a pity to see a post go 20-something pages, only to discover it was a bunch of pipe dreams being passed around, with nothing to show for it.


Of course, that last line didn't help matters with me, hence the yellow flag I've tabbed this thread with.


Carry on, on this thread. I'm watching.


-Piney-

[Ronster]

Carrier dog and lip for bolt (underneath).

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

Ronster: I have the lego parts in a box somewhere, but you'll need to explain the white tabs. Are there springs between them, or do they just rotate with the black axle?

Piney:
This will be done. I take my time with this because I, like many of the others who frequent these forums, am not willing to waste money if I know that the design won't work. Once enough of the systems have been worked out, then I will assemble the whole gun. The parts that I know how to make will be under construction by Christmas break, and that much I can promise.

[six-five-two]

Ronster that lego gear thing looks cool... And Pineapple, I havent set out a timetable yet because I am still in design phase... Some nerf guns I designed but never got to making it.. I am still having trouble with my design though. The problem is that the tube mag on the top going to the breech is going to be hard. I am going for a no shell design because shells and ejectors and picking them up, etc. are a pain in the ass. So now I am going to use regular 1/2 stefan darts. I want to make the plunger 1 1/4" wide. So the whole pipe will be 1 1/4" diameter, except there is a giant gap between the brass and the 1 1/4" PVC. So if a dart drops into the brass, another dart will go ontop of the breech. The problem is that I have a breech of 1" to 1/2" Coupler to 1/2" PVC, so if I load a dart in, and close the big breech, the dart in the middle (between the tube and the breech) will be smushed by the breech closing. So that's the problem with my shotgun design so far... Other than that I think I can start building it sometime soon.

[LastManAlive]

Just waiting to go to Lowes sometime for my project to start. And I can't say that going to Lowes even starts it for me. I can't count on them to hold the parts I need. I have to clue where to find a spring week enough to not cruch darts into onblivion when compressed or enough to move them in a tube the length I need them to.

Like I said, I am scrounging around for parts.

[Ronster]

Today I wanna get the carrier done.

And tomorrow I would like to finish everything (timing and all that crap).

So, by the way I have it PLANED, I should be mostly done this weekend.


EDIT:

I have to clue where to find a spring week enough to not cruch darts into onblivion when compressed or enough to move them in a tube the length I need them to.

Like I said before...
The spring on a spiral notebook. It's not strong enough for shells, but darts are no problem. Check it out.

Edited by Ronster, 16 December 2006 - 11:40 AM.

[Meaker VI]

Alrighty... I've gotten some stuff done (unfortunately, mostly easy stuff) and I'd like some suggestions. I'm running into problems with the bolt/ejector interactions, and those problems are making me nervous to move on and try again later since where I place the ejector will determine where I put a fairly large hole in my plunger tube/body.



That is pretty much what I've gotten done (except for the plunger and spring assembly, which you can't see but wouldn't matter anyway). The top is the lower reciever, which has a slot cut leingthwise for me to put mechanical stuff in, and a the final shell loading slot cut at the bottom. The black squarish thing is where I plan to put the trigger in later. It is 1" thinwall PVC, and the front houses the 3/4" thinwall PVC mag tube.

The next thing down is a shell, right now I'm using 1/2" PVC with a PETG barrel inside it (the black part is the exposed PETG with e-tape)

And at the bottom is my upper reciever, again 1" thinwall PVC. The slot is the area for the carrier and shell to work in, on the left is the barrel/chamber assembly (1/2" PVC inside a 1/2" PVC coupler), which is followed by a temporarily attached guide. That peice snaps the shell into allignment, regardless of which way it is when the carrier forces it in.

My problem lies with the bolt, seen on the right of the opening in the upper reciever, which is (for now) a 1/2" coupler. I think it might be that the fit is too tight on the shell, but I can' find a spring small and strong enough to eject a shell from that thing. I was also considering using the carrier with the next shell to eject, but I think the fit is too tight. I'm considering rebuilding my bolt with 3/4" thinwall or cut down 1" thinwall, but I'd like to know if anyone has any better ideas.

Except that right now my bolt is what makes my plunger go back, Captain slug's idea is sounding pretty good.

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

Not bad, Meaker VI. My own work has been delayed until I can find a place that sells cheap brass. I need to make the shells first, and then work from there, since designs of the bolt, mag, and carrier are all dependant on the shell size. As for springs, I think Commonly Hunted used the spring out of one of those cheap plastic Bic mechanical pencils, but then again, I think his shells were PVC, so I'll need something more powerful...

[Commonly Hunted]

Nice, MeakerVI. I really like that because it makes it look like my ideas really will work.
I will also start my shotgun after I hopefully get some 3/4" thin-wall tonight.

Again, looking very nice.

[LastManAlive]

Laugh*

I haven't even touched a peice of PVC. I have however almost finished one side of my Halo 2 Plasma Sword!

[Commonly Hunted]

I just got my 3/4" PVC thin-walled so I'm gonna work on my shotgun later tonight. For now, I'll work on the designs.

[Meaker VI]

Well, I suppose it's time for an update. I've gotten a little farther than that last picture; namely I setup the trigger mechanisim (didn't build the actuall trigger or position it in the lower reciever yet), which ended up being a snap-clothespin style trigger (because it was easy and self contained- on a later build I might build something better), and constructed a rough carrier. It's pretty much an "L," rotated 90 degrees to the left and has a bolt through the top for a hinge. It would work, except that when the bolt contacts it it goes back down, and then drops the shell. If I have to switch to the carrier/carrier dog system, which I'm convinced would work better and more reliably (though I don't know if the difference is enough to make it worth designing), but if I switched then my entire existing setup will need to be traded in for a FAR-esque setup where the bolt is also the plunger housing. Right now, the bolt is floating and pushes the plunger back, all in the same tube.

But I did get range tests done (put the shell in the chamber, closed the bolt, primed the plunger with a 1' long threaded rod...) and it gets about the same ranges as my PETG barreled Tech-Target, which means approx. 40'. I'm firing from the hip accross my garage (it's a weird setup, 2, 2-car garages back to back. Which means doors on both ends.), and for compairison, my BBB shoots all the way accross the garage without dropping before it hits the other wall. All with a stock, black bodied, red whistler micro.

So I'm considering rebuilding with a system similar to the FAR, carrying on with my present desing and make it work, or see if I can redesign for a 2 stroke (and therefore single pump if I can get a double action pump built) compression gun (as opposed to spring, which it is now).

Any opinions would be appreciated; I'd rather not rebuild but it was a prototype to begin with.

Also, if anyone knows what I should look for in a spring: I went to my local hardware store (Not Home Depot), and they have every kind and size of spring I could ever use, I think. I'm not sure if they sell ones that would work well for nerf; how tough should they be? For example, should I be able to compress them nearly fully with my hands or is it enough to just be able to budge them?

Edited by Meaker VI, 28 December 2006 - 08:25 PM.

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

Also, if anyone knows what I should look for in a spring: I went to my local hardware store (Not Home Depot), and they have every kind and size of spring I could ever use, I think. I'm not sure if they sell ones that would work well for nerf; how tough should they be? For example, should I be able to compress them nearly fully with my hands or is it enough to just be able to budge them?

That depends. A plunger spring should be hand-compressable, otherwise you'll never be able to cock the gun. A mag spring should be even weaker. A spiral-notebook coil like Ronster suggested works fine for just darts, might work okay for PVC shells, and probably won't work so well for brass like I am going to use.

[Commonly Hunted]

Yesterday, my little brother received his BuzzBee Rapidfire Rifle and Double Shot. The spring used in the magazine for the Rapidfire Rifle could be perfect for the magtube because it can push up six shells with darts in them easily. Or even the springs that eject the shells in either gun can work if you use several of them because they are kind of short. You might be able to find out what kind of springs are used in these guns and find where they are sold.

I also finished almost half of my shotgun. No pictures yet but I can tell you what I have. The plunger/bolt body, the barrel, the magtube (minus spring), one shell, and the feed ramp. Tomorrow, I plan on building the stock and pump action. The next day, I'll build a few more shells and the plunger and bolt. Following that, I can do finishing touches and test it. Until I get the correct magtube spring/s, I might use rubber bands.

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

I have decided to scrap the original pump-action design in favor of a bolt-action shotgun design (these do exist), for both ease of manufacture and a proof-of-concept testbed in case I should later build a variant that uses a pump. The bolt handle will be connected directly to the cam pin that operates the rotating bolt head, which will make for a simpler action. Besides, I have a preference for bolt-action guns that was restored again after I got my Longshot.

[Meaker VI]

...Well, I've got a bunch of stuff done, but unfortunately my shotty is not complete. And I'm back at school, where I might (now) be able to work on it, but decided not to take it with me due both to space restrictions and the mess it would make where ever I decided to work on it.

I decided that the first one that I had pictures up of was a "Prototype," and built a higher-quality, larger bodied (1 1/4" PVC instead of 1") version, with some different opperating mechanisims.

Top to bottom, left to right: Barrel (1" thinwall w/ 1/2" coupler for a chamber, no actual barrel yet), upper reciever (1 1/4" thickwall w/3/4" coupler attached at bottom to recieve mag tube.), right of 3/4" coupler- bolt coupling (explained later), bolt (1" thinwall), Shell (1/2" thickwall w/ barrel material of choice nested inside [PETG]), pump flange (explained later), plunger (explained later), plunger/spring buffer (1/2" thickwall), spring buffer retainer (1/2" coupler), pump handle (explained later), bottom reciever w/ present carrier (1 1/4" thickwall), mag tube (3/4" thinwall w/ 3/4" & 1" couplers attached), screws.


Here is a view of the bolt assemblies all lined up; as you can see the shell is at the front, followed by the bolt (completely assembled: the bolt coupling is inside the bolt and the pump flange is on the underside), with the plunger and plunger buffer and retainer. The plunger is a 1/2" PVC endcap with a 1/2" CPVC guide rod. I used 2 of those "Handy-Man springs" from Home Depot, they are approx. 9" uncompressed and 3" compressed togeather. The plunger buffer is there to put tension on the springs, allowing the bolt to travel all the way back unhindered. If I had just used the retainer, the plunger would not be fully compressed by the time the bolt contacted it.

The bolt has a peice of 1 1/4" PVC screwed (for the moment) to it, with 2 metal stud straps that have been shaped to hold the pump bar in place. There are also holes drilled into the pump bar. I'm considering rebuilding this peice to make it behave more nicely, this one has sharp peices that eat the housing; although if I'd sanded the housing down in the first place it might not be having so many problems.


This is the bolt from above, showing the layering that went into it and the tab that holds the shells in. I'm considering redesigning this peice, either entirely or just modifications. Notice the lack of an ejector.


Just thought you might want to see the barrel/mag tube/pump assembly...

The pump handle is interesting (no picture of it up close), so far I haven't heard of anyone using something I've thought of using for a long time known as "Epoxy Putty." The stuff hardens to be nearly as strong as(if not stronger than) steel, and so using it, a peice of 1 1/4", super glue, and screws through the 1 1/4" and through the pump handle, I got the pump handle to work and it feels practically invulnerable. It comes in sticks and has a blue shell with a white core, you kneed the stuff 'till it's a solid color and then apply. It says it both bonds and fills, and while I mostly used it as filler it did seem to bond things pretty well. I found a 4" stick at Wallmart for about $2, but I hear it is available at Homedepot and other hardware stores.


And here is everything I've got all put togeather. It's fairly large, about 3' long, but that's as long as it'll be getting: I planned from the start to use the end as a stock and the barrel is a faring right now that could be shortened but has room inside it for expansion or whatever.

My carrier is a bent up stud strap (it's a fairly stiff metal strap with holes in it that you can still bend by hand), it needs desperate redesigning and if anyone wants to help me with that I'd be appreciative. Keep in mind that I can also use flat plastics (Lexan is available, but I'd like to keep that for a final build and use the Plexi I've got for now) in addition to what I've mentioned above. And that the Epoxy putty could be used to make anything by itself, or (as I was planning) for some serious reinforcement.

I've ran a cycle through the gun successfully, but my carrier/chamber interactions aren't going well. The carrier is operated right now by rubber bands pulling it up, and is forced down when the bolt comes forward. And then after running the loading cycle a few times, the ejector tab stopped pulling the shell out. I also have no ejection method, I was hoping to make the incoming shell force the old one out, but that didn't work. I'm considering giving the ejection tab more room to manuver by removing the 1 1/4" above it.

This newer version does not have range tests done (as my prototype did), however I figure that they will improve with a seal between the shell and the bolt since the bolt encloses the plunger this time (last time I had another seal between the bolt face and the plunger tube, this time the bolt and face are one peice), and I squezed all the travel out of the plunger. The plunger is a different style, but I think this style will work better than "plunger head attached to the spring" method that I had used before, despite being heavier.

Anyone who would like to comment, please do, however keep in mind that this project will see no further physical progress untill the nest break. I'm hoping (once again) to get the problems overcome by then, so your help will be appreciated.

Edited by Meaker VI, 06 January 2007 - 10:15 PM.

[SHADOW HUNTER ALPHA]

Great work, Meaker VI. For what it is, the prototype is a good guide for testing all of the systems that you'll use to build the actual version of the gun. However, I'd like to see the carrier group, or at least as much of it as possible, in another pic so we can get an idea of what you are doing to make the system work.

[Meaker VI]

However, I'd like to see the carrier group, or at least as much of it as possible, in another pic so we can get an idea of what you are doing to make the system work.

Well... I don't have the thing here right now, so I can't get a real picture. It's pretty much like the carrier Anders posted a while back; an "L" shaped peice of metal, the long end of which goes from the pin behind the opening for shells to the mag tube, and the short end contacts the bolt. When the bolt is all the way forward, the short end is contacting the bolt and forcing the whole carrier down. The carrier is actuated by rubberbands.

I'm not sure that that method will work consistantly, however. I'd like new methods, presently I'm considering re-vamping the pump attachment so that the bolt forces the carrier up and back down, using either another "L" shaped peice, a slider, or a carrier with a carrier dog. I also have enough wobble room to possibly make a ramp work (sorry whoever I told it wouldn't before; I was thinking closer tolerances). Something else I'm considering is a carrier that utilizes the pump's action to make it work, but I don't have any specific plans for that yet. All in all, I would much rather have the carrier activated by the loading motion than my present method.

SHA; if you could explain the ejector you'd built a while back in some more detail I'd appreciate it, I'm having difficulties with ejectors and have left that problem for later (since I have room for one, just not much of an idea how to get one to work).
Anyone else; please give ideas/ any actual solutions you may have come up with.

[Ronster]

It's been a lonnnngggg time since I've been active. It's a new year and that means more work for me....

Way before Christmas I made a prototype of a carrier dog and part of a carrier, but I never really got around to doing anything more... I might be able to do some this weekend. No garuntees though...

Meaker, that looks really awesome! I can not wait until it's done.
Any possible videos to show how it works???

[Meaker VI]

It's been a lonnnngggg time since I've been active. It's a new year and that means more work for me....

Way before Christmas I made a prototype of a carrier dog and part of a carrier, but I never really got around to doing anything more... I might be able to do some this weekend. No garuntees though...

Meaker, that looks really awesome! I can not wait until it's done.
Any possible videos to show how it works???

Umm... Well, yes and no. Yes my digi-cam has a video option, but no I don't have the shotty with me to work on/take pictures of. If I go home, and if I have time to get it and take more pictures and videos and stuff I will, but that's most likely a while from now. The action on that beasty isn't always all that smoth, unfortunately. I think my main problem is with the way I attached the bolt, and that the carrier would bind up sometimes. So I want to get ideas for a different carrier, and if you've got one, let's see it!