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High Powered Pistol(s)

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#1 Powersniper

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:24 PM

Well, any ideas for some high powered pistols? I'm already in love with the sspb for it's size and power when modded corectly. Now, I was wondering if it was possible to get 100'+ with a pistol :D .

Air/pump powered seems to be easier to make then spring.
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#2 General Cole

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:26 PM

An airtank sounds best. Why not just pimp out a NF like Carrtoon?
We should stop calling out/making fun of/pissing GC off. He's actually contributed and is available for trade. He's a better than average member no doubt. Got your back Cole.
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#3 Flaming Hilt

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:28 PM

Yea, airtanks for distance.

Carbon has some pretty good springers, though; search his name in homemades.
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#4 General Cole

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:30 PM

I still think that an UBER NF would do the job just dandy.
We should stop calling out/making fun of/pissing GC off. He's actually contributed and is available for trade. He's a better than average member no doubt. Got your back Cole.
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#5 Powersniper

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:37 PM

I think I missed something... Uber NF? What the hell....
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#6 General Cole

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:40 PM

Cartoon's NF could hit 100' (an UBER NF).
We should stop calling out/making fun of/pissing GC off. He's actually contributed and is available for trade. He's a better than average member no doubt. Got your back Cole.
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You know what... I know it's kinda late... but Props Cole.
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#7 euphemism

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:49 PM

Ever heard of a secret shot 2?
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#8 Powersniper

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 09:50 PM

OH.... MY..... GOD......
How is that possible???????
can I have the link to the uber NF?

Edited by Powersniper{}, 13 September 2006 - 10:11 PM.

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#9 JurassicPark

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 10:03 PM

Yoink http://www31.brinkst...ss/mods/ss2.htm.
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#10 Doom

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 05:58 AM

You can do this with a homemade spring gun.

Buy a two inch Buna-N piston seal from McMaster-Carr and the strongest spring you can move at your local hardware store (and believe me too, they'll have springs you won't be able to use because they're too strong). Thread a bolt through the seal and tighten a nut on. That's a perfect seal cheap and easy.

The remainder of the design is up to you, but I will say that I've actually been working on something based on this idea, so if you are less creative wait a week or two as I get the money needed to finish it. Despite what everyone says about ratios and all that trash, what really matters is air flow. Ratios are for efficiency, but it doesn't matter how efficient your gun is if it can't do squat.

This design has a big chamber ID which will mean a lot of air flow in a spring gun. The strong spring helps a lot too.

You will want a good sized barrel ideally for something like this, but if you're set on it being pistol sized you probably should do some sort of reverse design that I saw Carbon do. That would be fine.
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#11 Carbon

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 06:25 AM

Despite what everyone says about ratios and all that trash, what really matters is air flow. Ratios are for efficiency, but it doesn't matter how efficient your gun is if it can't do squat.

A good, fast airflow is key, but if your chamber:barrel ratio is way off, your gun still won't do squat. Airflow is raw power: ratios tune that power.
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#12 Doom

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 02:39 PM

True, but I mainly was commenting on the fact that people think ratios matter much more than they really do. No one here believes that you can get performance with a barrel that is too short or too long. There are people here however who believe that most of performance is ratios, which is misguided. I am still yet to see definitive ideal ratios, but I see the idea thrown around a lot here and at spud gun forums.

The Nerf gun I am currently building for example has a a bit over a 5:1 chamber to barrel ratio. The chamber diameter works for the ratios a lot. Chamber diameter is good for both air flow and a good ratio. The ratio is so large that I'm afraid my two foot long brass barrel is too short for perfect optimzed performance. There's an optimal barrel length for each system, not an optimal ratio for all systems. That's how it seems to me at least.

If you guestimate the barrel length based upon experience you'll get very close. What really really works is if you design the chamber first and then try to optimize the barrel. To optimize the length the real way you could either (1) do loads of calculus and differential equations to find where the dart stops accelerating or (2) try an empirical method. Both take a lot of work. I'd say that the empirical method would be easier and more accurate for most people however.

So to reiterate my method: make a powerful chamber first and then and only then worry about making the barrel right. :D
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#13 Carbon

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 03:44 PM

I mainly was commenting on the fact that people think ratios matter much more than they really do.
...
There's an optimal barrel length for each system, not an optimal ratio for all systems. That's how it seems to me at least.
...
If you guestimate the barrel length based upon experience you'll get very close. What really really works is if you design the chamber first and then try to optimize the barrel.
...
So to reiterate my method: make a powerful chamber first and then and only then worry about making the barrel right. B)

Well put.

I was replying to your assertion that ratios were "trash", but I understand what you're saying now. We're in complete agreement; make it powerful, then tune it in. And really, it comes down to what works, rather than any esoteric formula. It's a guideline, but not a rule.
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#14 Doom

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Posted 14 September 2006 - 08:05 PM

I did go a little too far to say that ratios are trash, but I just wanted to get my point across. Good to know I'm not alone in that. Sometimes I feel as if I'm the only one to see something the way it is.

My spring gun should be finished within a week or two given my schedule. You'll see what I've been up to once it is complete and a lot of my method in practice. So far I feel that I am doing a lot of things correct and hopefully this will make a positive impact in the Nerf community. The trigger system hopefully will be duplicated for more powerful spring guns (the closepin trigger wouldn't be able to take the force). I'm probably not the only one who felt that the FAR and SCAR-N could have performed better. My most recent work really is a response to that.
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#15 Shadow 92

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:04 PM

Super Soaker to Nerf Mod
It's not as small as a Nite Finder, Tech Target, or SSII but it's still small enough to be a pistol. Try using stefans, you might get better ranges than what fobpawwor got. You can find the liquidator right here.

Or you could just single or quad an AT2K if you want amazing range without having to pump as much.

PS: I got an industrial spring similar to the one Carrtoon used. The results are very satisfactory but I feel like the plunger rod is going to break off every time I cock it.
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#16 General Cole

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 11:08 PM

Dude the Liquidator is like huge, and he wants a pistol, an AT2K is a freckin' rifle.
We should stop calling out/making fun of/pissing GC off. He's actually contributed and is available for trade. He's a better than average member no doubt. Got your back Cole.
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#17 King Of Butt Land

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 08:40 AM

Um, you can cut down an at2k to be mighty small.

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#18 NerfMonkey

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 11:25 AM

I wouldn't consider a 2k a pistol simply because of its power, but if he's looking for awesome power packed into a small case, the 2k is the way to go.

Since when is it too big to be considered a pistol?
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#19 Powersniper

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 01:44 PM

Umm... I didn't mean only for me... I was more aiming twards a thread that had peoples opinoins and ideas (which it has) but it's not really only for me. I meant in general. A couple of friends wanted me to post up this thread to.

The AT2K is a good sized pistol when it's cut down and the Liquidator is a pretty good pistol to.
The SS11 is retired. I don't do the whole trading thing well.

Edited by Powersniper{}, 16 September 2006 - 01:45 PM.

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#20 sam

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 02:14 PM

This is basically what everyone is talking about, and I plan on doing something like this in the near future. I'll keep you posted.
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#21 General Cole

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 03:03 PM

With a little cosmetic work that 2K would look good and function right.
We should stop calling out/making fun of/pissing GC off. He's actually contributed and is available for trade. He's a better than average member no doubt. Got your back Cole.
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#22 sam

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 05:00 PM

Function over fashion.
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#23 davidbowie

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 07:17 PM

Function beats fashion, but the function is pretty well taken care of in that mod already. I agree than cosmetics would be a cool next step, but they would be utterly useless if you've already got a functional blaster.

I think that the Snapper design could easily reach 100' if built properly. The springs have at least 3/4" or 1" of unused travel that I can easily compress, and these are both 25 lb springs. That means quite a bit of possible force being wasted by careless spring-stop placement. The barrel is also most definitely not the proper length, not to mention I've only ever used stock suction darts in it. Also, the seal washer was cut fairly sloppily and the pull handle is unnecessarily large. With a good barrel/dart combo and stefans, better seal, lighter pull-knob, plastic catchface, proper PC and barrel lengths, and careful construction, I don't think the snapper would have any problems reaching 100'. *Sighs*. Yet another thing I have to do.
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#24 Carbon

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 05:10 PM

Just as an observation, I believe we're talking about a homemade pistol hitting 100'...so all the mentions of AT2ks and NFs don't really fit. I think the original mention of the SSPB was more as a reference point.
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#25 General Cole

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 06:16 PM

Carrtoon had an NF that could hit 100ft. The NF is widely available, and it hits 100, so therefore it fits.
We should stop calling out/making fun of/pissing GC off. He's actually contributed and is available for trade. He's a better than average member no doubt. Got your back Cole.
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