29 replies to this topic

[IronRhino]

As most of you know, Gray Davis is facing a recall election, the first in California history. I can't vote, so I don't have many strong opinions. Lots of people are signing up to run: An 18-year-old, a porn king, a billboard queen and others. Some are saying its democracy at its best, others say it is democracy run amok. What does everyone here think?

[merlinski]

As most of you know, Gray Davis is facing a recall election, the first in California history. I can't vote, so I don't have many strong opinions. Lots of people are signing up to run: An 18-year-old, a porn king, a billboard queen and others. Some are saying its democracy at its best, others say it is democracy run amok. What does everyone here think?

The candidate list is Democracy run amok. We should expect more from our leaders.

I wonder if we could get a recall election for governor Pataki in NY...

[Mantis]

Arnold will terminate them all and become the new governator.

Note: I made that word up before even seeing the damn headlines.

[Evil]

Yea, vote for Arnie if you want to live.

[VACC]

Even if he doesn't get it now, he'll be back, so you might as well vote for him! DO IT YOU COMMIES!!!

[ZATZAi]

I may run as a publicity stunt,

But I'd still vote for someone else, I'd consider Arnold, but I do not know his political platform as of yet...

[neonerfer]

I think Grey Davis is pretty cool. He'll probably get re-elected. I dislike how people say he's screwing our schools over. We're in a recession now, or at least the tail end of it, state funding is obviously going to be less than before. It's not Davis' fault that the country is in a recession. CA has a debt of about 30 billion, right? I don't think that's too bad compared to some other state's 70-80 billion. I really think Bush has alot to do with it though. During the energy crisis, we didn't get a whole lot of help from him, he said it was a state issue and he was going to stay out of it. He's an oil-energy guy, so I think he knew a little bit more about the whole Enron deal than we've been told. Anyways, I think that if Davis was elected fairly, he should remain in office until his term is fairly over. Then people who don't like him can vote differently when it's appropriate. I'm dissapointed that so many jackasses are running. When I ran for school president, there was this one kid that ran just for the hell of it and didn't really want to win. People were amused by him, and although most didn't think he'd make the best president, he got an okay amount of votes. The ASB class knew that he didn't know shit about ASB or being ASB president, and it pissed us off that he wasn't serious about it. Anyways, he ended up cheating and lost by default. That doesn't have a whole lot to do with anything, but I just don't like the people who are running for publicity/the hell of it, unless they're sure they won't win.

Anyways, I'm not sure if all my data is correct, but that's my distorted view on things.

[Talio]

I'd consider Arnold, but I do not know his political platform as of yet...

Answer:

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!

[Mantis]

I think Grey Davis is pretty cool. .................
Anyways, I'm not sure if all my data is correct, but that's my distorted view on things.

I thought when Arnold got thrown into the mix that he was the only option.

[NerfManiac]

Gay Davis is the biggest weenie ever. I hate him to the core of my soul. His "budget cut" laid off my friend's mom and now they have to move where she can get a job.

[cxwq]

While Davis hasn't been brilliant, he certainly hasn't done anything worth recalling him over. The courts have decided that the whole energy fiasco was induced by a bunch of out-of-state energy suppliers - who are now paying gobs of money for their illegal behavior. California's budget deficit is due to the economic decline that the whole nation went through. We just got hit harder than most because a lot of our business was tech/internet based and we all know what happened to those companies.

If it seems certain that Davis isn't going to get his 50%, I'll vote for Arnold. A moderate conservative who would marry into a very liberal family is OK in my book. Besides, the state legislature isn't going to fuck with the terminator now are they?

[merlinski]

I really think Bush has alot to do with it though. During the energy crisis, we didn't get a whole lot of help from him, he said it was a state issue and he was going to stay out of it. He's an oil-energy guy, so I think he knew a little bit more about the whole Enron deal than we've been told.

I don't think Bush Jr. knew a great deal about it, but I think Cheney was directly involved (meaning part of the whole top-level conspiracy). Bush Jr. isn't as much of a leader as a puppet for the Cheney-Rumsfeld-Bush Sr. trio.

The entire budget problem in most states is, for the most part, a result of the slumping economy. The return to trickle-down economics has resulted in a return to the crappy-economy days. It's not usually the state's fault. Although Pataki here in NY has a lot to do with why our deficit is the biggest of any state...

[Spoon]

AFAIK Arnold still hasn't confirmed his candidacy, and in fact it's now looking more likely that he will NOT run in the recall election.

[neonerfer]

I just heard that he's going to announce that he isn't running.

[IronRhino]

We'll just have to wait until 12:00 tonight. I hope he runs. He would be a good governor, or at least he doesn't seam as trashy as some of the other candidates.

[superadaquabat]

I dislike how people say he's screwing our schools over.

Yes, thats quite an understatement. He seems to be screwing everything over. About your deficit estimates, nice try.. I recomend checking your facts before making such false and misleading statements. Fortunately Grey Davis has some great ideas to solve his problems though! Tax us more and borrow 16 million dollars! Thats the way to get things done. I don't have to pay taxes yet, but I can tell its ridiculous already and tripling the car tax (illegally) is madness. It wouldn't be so awful if he spent the money in good places, but the government can't do anything right now can it? Theres absolutely no reason California should have the dumbest kids in America.
''It's not pretty but it could have been a whole lot uglier,'' Davis said. ''It is far from perfect but further delay was unacceptable.'' Which is exactly why were recalling you. You know how just plain awful you are when your the first governer in the history of America to be recalled. I mean would you even be able to vote for yourself?


"Further delay is unnacceptable"

[neonerfer]

That's a future estimate. What's the current debt? The federal goverenment is running one of the highest deficits in history, does that trouble you as much as CA's? I still believe that the deficit has been caused by the recesssion, not by Davis alone. Anyways, I got a pretty good amount of info here. Can anyone verify Evan's and/or my debt figures? I'm not trying to totally support Davis, I don't think he's that great, but I can live with him. I don't really like most politicians anyways. I could deal with him and I could probably deal with Arnold too. I just think that whoever is governer should be elected in a regular election, after Davis' term is up. Do you honestly think that another candidate will be able to get us out of this mess?

[superadaquabat]

Well the future estimate seems to be better than the 38 billion dollar current deficet. Our national recession obviously has something to do with it, but there is no reason our state should be so far in last. According to the National Governors Association's and the National Association of State Budget Officers' Fiscal Survey of the States, in 2002 California's deficit for the year alone was -$2,133 million. The second closets was Oregon with -$1,130 million. All states other than California still had positive Budget Stabilization funds. California's saving fund was at -$3,535 million. Since 2003 then only gotten worse. Estimated 2003 fiscal year endings for California, a -$4,451 million this year and a $5,853 million deficit in the Stabilization Fund. This isn't the entire state budget though, this is just how much lower its going to get. We come easily in last by $2,655 million

[cxwq]

Yes, thats quite an understatement. He seems to be screwing everything over.

Examples?

Fortunately Grey Davis has some great ideas to solve his problems though!  Tax us more and borrow 16 million dollars!

He had nothing to do with that. The legislature's inability to form a bipartisan compromise has everything to do with that. The Left wanted to raise taxes and not cut spending too much, The Right wanted to cut spending a ton and not raise taxes at all. The solution they gave him was the worst of both worlds but you can't blame Davis for what those jerkoffs handed him to sign. For what it's worth, this is one of the few states in the nation where the Republicans flat out refuse to face reality and raise taxes to deal with massive deficits. They must have learned economic theory from Bush (via Bush Sr. (via Regan)).

I don't have to pay taxes yet, but I can tell its ridiculous already and tripling the car tax (illegally) is madness.

I do pay taxes and can't complain about a dime I spend. Hell, I'd pay more to get this state more of what I'm already buying. I work at (and attend) a State University that provides 19,000 students an excellent education for about $2k/year. I'm sure that doesn't impress people who buy their degree at private schools though.

It wouldn't be so awful if he spent the money in good places, but the government can't do anything right now can it?  Theres absolutely no reason California should have the dumbest kids in America.

K-12 education in California is just like K-12 education everywhere. Rich kids do great, poor kids fail, and most kids are somewhere in the middle. If your parents have a history of and an expectation of academic success, you will succeed. If you really believe otherwise, take a look at how many of the nation's top high schools are in California (a bunch) and what the median home prices are in their vicinity (astronomical).

I paid an extra $100k to buy my house in an excellent school district rather than 3 miles away in an average one but in the end it won't matter because *I* take responsibility for my kids' education. I know it won't matter because I happened to grow up in the average school district 3 miles away but my parents made sure I learned anyway.

You know how just plain awful you are when your the first governer in the history of America to be recalled.  I mean would you even be able to vote for yourself?

Whether or not he's recalled (hasn't happened yet...), it has nothing to do with how good a governor he is. It's a popularity contest where 90% of the people who vote won't have a clue about the issues.

[neonerfer]

This is Evan posting, right? Just wondering, because parents and other people tend to get more involved in political arguments between kids than they normall would. I hope you aren't taking any offense to my argument, as I consider both you and your dad good friends and want to make sure that this is just a debate.
That out of the way, Davis stepped into a bad situation, and things really went downhill with the power crisis. Kenneth Lay, the texan CEO of Enron, had visited Chaney numerous times, advising him on the country's energy policy. When asked for the documentation of the visits, and how many times they had personally spoken, release was refused. Lay's company was buying, selling, and reselling contracts, jacking the prices up for California. When your power is being supplied by a corrupt company, such as now bankrupt Enron, it's pretty easy to slip into such debt. How is this Davis' fault?

Why are you saying the estimate looks better though? Didn't you just say I should check my data before posting such misleading information? With your current argument, you just contradicted your previous statements of the debt being higher than I had stated.

Edit : Looks like Arnold is running.

[Mantis]

To confirm the last post... WHOOOOOO

[superadaquabat]

No worries Mr. Steve, I couldn't care less. And our debating does not reflect upon our freindship or anything else. I only sound angry and mean I guess. Basically I think Davis has been doing a lousy job as governor. Even if it was not entirely his fault, Wilson's 4 billion dollar surplus is now at -38 billion dollars. The governor shouldn't have allowed financial problems to get so bad. His trying to triple the car tax is not my idea of a good solution. It seems that most of our money problems are a result of poor spending, may not only be Davis's faul, but he is definitely at fault for some of it. Opinions on taxes differ greatly among the populus obviously. CXWQ's example of puplic colleges and universities is an example of good tax spending. The line at the post office is a sign of far too little funding. In my opinion Davis has had his chance, people didn't like him, he's been recalled. Schwarzenegger has probably run already. As CXWQ said

90% of the people who vote won't have a clue about the issues.

A lot of people do care about movies however. Imagine that, two movie star governors, both being republicans!

[merlinski]

He had nothing to do with that. The legislature's inability to form a bipartisan compromise has everything to do with that. The Left wanted to raise taxes and not cut spending too much, The Right wanted to cut spending a ton and not raise taxes at all. The solution they gave him was the worst of both worlds but you can't blame Davis for what those jerkoffs handed him to sign. For what it's worth, this is one of the few states in the nation where the Republicans flat out refuse to face reality and raise taxes to deal with massive deficits. They must have learned economic theory from Bush (via Bush Sr. (via Regan)).

It's nice to see that at least some people notice when this happens.
I can relate to that, NY hasn't had a budget passed on time since Pataki got elected 9 years ago. He will not compromise his ridiculous conservative economics even though its leading NY into the worst deficit we've ever had.

Regarding taxes, when you actually look at what the goverment takes out of your paycheck, state taxes are a very small percentage of the total taxes. I'm more pissed about paying a good deal for a social security fund that won't be there when I need it because of just plain MORONIC Republican economic management. Where the hell are they going to get 50 billion a year for occupying Iraq when they've already turned a 200 billion surplus into a 450 billion deficit? I'll give you a hint... goodbye, social security.

[superadaquabat]

Perhaps the post offic should charge a little more after getting their spending in order. It's worth the extra few dollars to ship via UPS than to wiat for 30+ minutes at the post office.

Keep in mind these are things we voters and our elected officials decide what we want to spend our money on.

The governor was trying to illegally triple the car tax without voters consent.

That's when the Republicans saw their opportunity -- to misuse a loophole in a law passed years ago that was meant to make elections more fair for candidates without big piggy banks.

It's not only republicans, the guys got a 24% approval rating. They didn't misuse anything either. If enough people want to have another election let them. If Davis is doing a good job he'll win, otherwise someone else can take his place. But it seems nearly anyone could run against him now (including Simon) and win pretty easily. I don't understand what you mean about the making elections more fair for the less rich, could you explain it.

This recall is making a mockery of democracy.

I really don't understand this one either. This is what democracy is all about it seems to me, if there wasn't so much money involved. As I said before, the people will choose whom they think is best. Its giving democracy a second chance.

[neonerfer]

Oh man...

"Issa, who made his fortune selling car alarms and pumped $1.7 million of his own money into the recall effort, broke into tears at a news conference Thursday as he announced that he had decided to stay in Congress so he could work toward peace in the Middle East."