Rotary Breech?
#1
Posted 15 May 2006 - 11:22 AM
such as the one featured in the HK-G11
The G11 has a loading and ejecting system like this:
So i was wondering if this would be usefull in a mechinized or manually operated fashion such as this:
First the shell with the dart is loaded.
Seccond the chamber rotates so the dart is placed horizontally, the gun fires the dart.
Then the chamber rotates further to eject the shell out of a hole in the bottom of the gun.
And the chamber rotates back into its inital state to fire again.
So would it work? Or be usefull at all?
#2
Posted 15 May 2006 - 11:42 AM
So perhaps this....keep your breech idea, and place another valve in between your breech and airtank, but make it a solenoid for quick air release.
#3
Posted 15 May 2006 - 12:33 PM
-or-
100% Nerf, for 100% pwnage.
Nerf is a neutral weapons dealer. Anyone coughing up the dough can get armed.
and they're made of Foam... which makes them very Nerfy...
#4
Posted 15 May 2006 - 12:45 PM
I mean like the rotating chamber specifically.
I don't feel the way I used to do.
I know its bad,
After what we had,
But I’m just not the angel you knew.
#5
Posted 15 May 2006 - 01:23 PM
But it is enlightening to see such positive replys to my first post.
But as materials go, I would imagine that if you insert a piece of 1 inch PVC or CPVC through a larger (lets say 3") all the way through the side and glue, that would be sufficiant.
Edited by Ronnies07, 15 May 2006 - 01:32 PM.
#6
Posted 15 May 2006 - 02:23 PM
#7
Posted 15 May 2006 - 03:06 PM
#8
Posted 15 May 2006 - 03:35 PM
However, if you were going to use a butterfly valve anyways, you might as well make your own rotating piece for the nerf gun. That way you would still need two valves in addition to the rotating chamber, but it could have much less friction like a butterfly valve and cost a lot less than any other choices.
#9
Posted 15 May 2006 - 05:46 PM
#10
Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:17 PM
NOTE: I will have a picture for you later today, as i no that what i said would be hard to understand.
#11
Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:34 PM
By the way, guys, you don't need a huge clip sticking out one side. The P90 is an excellent example. Just rotate the diagram he has.
I'd be most worried about getting a proper seal. I suppose foam craft sheet would get you a sufficient seal, but I think the hardest part will be, as odd as it sounds, getting any sort of back-forth motion to turn into a turn-the-turret motion. I suppose you could make one position the resting position, and have a spring return it to its resting position after you prime it, which could be accomplished by a string just pulling on the thing itself.
My only gripe with it is that it almost has to use shells. I'm not very fond of shells, at it results in increased loading time, expenses, etc. However, the use of shells DOES allow for a better seal to be made, which would be required in this case due to the fact that otherwise you have a huge open compartment that's open to the air chamber.
~ompa
#12
Posted 15 May 2006 - 06:47 PM
My only gripe with it is that it almost has to use shells. I'm not very fond of shells, at it results in increased loading time, expenses, etc. However, the use of shells DOES allow for a better seal to be made, which would be required in this case due to the fact that otherwise you have a huge open compartment that's open to the air chamber.
Not necessarily. We've seen before that large open chambers don't necessarily kill range if there's enough air present; the RSCB clip and my hopper clip are two examples of that. It really wouldn't matter if the dart was sitting loose inside of the pipe, just so long as there was smooth pipe channeling it forward.
#13
Posted 15 May 2006 - 09:44 PM
A butterfly valve would require much more precision in the design, since it must be entirely closed before the valve can open; but, if you used a ball valve and made the inside of the "ball" the chamber, you could use the ball valve as the only valve, or if you wanted a semi-auto or full-auto nerf gun, as one of two valves. Plus, from what I see on mcmaster-carr a butterfly valve would cost at least 5-10 times as much as a ball valve.
However, if you were going to use a butterfly valve anyways, you might as well make your own rotating piece for the nerf gun. That way you would still need two valves in addition to the rotating chamber, but it could have much less friction like a butterfly valve and cost a lot less than any other choices.
True but as others were saying, wouldant all the air rush out of the gun before the breach can close, (or am i not understanding what you are saying)
Also oompa, you may not need shells for anything but the mag, resulting in a powerclip style magizene, but it would add more complexity to the gun instead of a shelled mag
Also carbon, The berral being much bigger then the dart was a mistake on my part drawing it, the dart should loosly fit but not too loose as shown in the picture.
I just drew that to have an example of the breach workings, but that is by no means a full plan for a gun
Also i was thinking that if you added a small O-Ring slider that was able to slide in the breach, you would be able to fire two darts every cycle of the breach, so once the new shell is loaded, the spent shell is pushed out and the Oring to keep it from falling out prematurealy. its kinda hard to describe without pics but hopefully I can post some tommarow.
Edited by Ronnies07, 15 May 2006 - 09:57 PM.
#14
Posted 15 May 2006 - 10:26 PM
I was actually talking about the other way around; where the chamber would be loose around the dart, but the barrel would be close fitting. The dart could just fall into the breech (no need for shells) and then get shot forward into the barrel.Also carbon, The berral being much bigger then the dart was a mistake on my part drawing it, the dart should loosly fit but not too loose as shown in the picture.
#15
Posted 16 May 2006 - 04:55 AM
If you put a cam on the rotating breech it could mechanically trigger the firing valve for you. And then find a way to link the rotation to a trigger and you'll have a very effective and simple semi-automatic system.
If you need me to I could work up a design in CAD.
Edited by CaptainSlug, 16 May 2006 - 05:02 AM.
#16
Posted 16 May 2006 - 05:00 AM
Yeah, I was thinking something similar, more along the lines of the HK G11 Assault Rifle. The rifle has a turn table in it to chamber and eject shells. Quite interesting. Though in the G11 design, it takes and ejects a cartridge in 1/2 turn as opposed to the full turn of this design.\I like the idea. You could potentially make a clip that loads sideways like the P90. But as Carbon said, you need a second valve. Anyone have any thoughts to optimized this?
I see this design as very feasible. Good work.
-Tidge.
Also active on NerfHQ as Tidge.
#17
Posted 16 May 2006 - 08:38 AM
Here's what I'm thinking:
Lever action. Attach a lever to the valve handle, mounted so that it would hit the handle stops with the ball opening (in front) just above the barrel. Drill a hole in the casing to line up with the opened breech. Attach a sprung lateral mag, with a gentle bend to line up with the ball when the breech is opened. The mag would be on top of the barrel. Dart scrunching would still be a problem, but I can still see this working. Perhaps somebody will be inspired.
#18
Posted 16 May 2006 - 10:31 AM
Yeah, I was thinking something similar, more along the lines of the HK G11 Assault Rifle. The rifle has a turn table in it to chamber and eject shells. Quite interesting. Though in the G11 design, it takes and ejects a cartridge in 1/2 turn as opposed to the full turn of this design.\I like the idea. You could potentially make a clip that loads sideways like the P90. But as Carbon said, you need a second valve. Anyone have any thoughts to optimized this?
I see this design as very feasible. Good work.
-Tidge.
Yes I did bais the design on the HKG11 as stated in my first post, but the links are broke now for some reason.
Edited by Ronnies07, 16 May 2006 - 10:31 AM.
#19
Posted 17 May 2006 - 02:00 PM
HOWEVER. I'm not using any form of cartridge so don't need to eject anything, I'm using small, round hard ammo. I'm not totally certain you could get this to work simply with a cartridge as there's a very strong risk of jamming on the loading or ejection cycles. Don't forget even the HK is caseless.
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