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Another Noob Question For All The Older Guys

Full-Autoguns like the Tommy 20 at Buzz Bee Toys

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#1 shadow ninja

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 07:43 AM

Hey guys it's me again with another noob question. Has anyone made a full-auto barrel clip nerf gun like the Thompson. Could it be for a nerf tag gun or a older nerf gun the chainblazer.

Edited by shadow ninja, 30 April 2006 - 07:51 AM.

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#2 Meaker VI

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Posted 30 April 2006 - 12:06 PM

Dig around in the hommades, Captain slug is working on a full-auto gatling gun. He's also got some clip designs similar to those used in the Thompson in his topic on the Sledgehammer. Don't bother him 'cause he is buisy right now, and plans to continue construction on the gatling in a few weeks. The sledgehammer is on hold, but I believe he has plans to build it when the gatling is finished.

Other than that, very few (if any) people have made full auto guns, and I don't think there are any mods to make a gun full-auto that isn't already. You would pretty much have to rebuild the gun to get any of the existing nerf guns (you mentioned the chainblazer) to be full auto.
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#3 rotoryfan

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 11:25 PM

you would require some kind of motor to create an auto-advancing turret for a DTB. and integrate a bladder into it for full auto. it could be done, but it would be hard and very annoying. I'm thinking that a combination of a lego motor and some gears could have enough power to push and pull the mechanism that advances the turret. you could integrate a battery setup into the handel, by chopping a NF handel, and welding wires to the circuit that you get in the NF, and when closing the circuit, the batteries (actually, one 9V battery) power the lego motor, which turns a gear, which pushes and pulls the rotating mechanism, giving a smooth advance mechanism. and since the mechanism is only activated when the trigger is pulled (closing the circuit) the gun is technically a full auto gun, since only one trigger pull is required to shoot multiple darts. you could integrate an AT3K pump assembly into the cocking piece, and you could pump by cocking the gun! I doubt that the DTB has enough interior space, but if you're creative enough, its possible. I used to play with the lego motors all the time, (I still do, once in a while) and it would be perfect, if you can fit it in. you could do this if you had an empty WF or RF20 shell I suppose.

this is just an idea for the auto rotating mechanism. I challenge anyone, and everyone to try it! hell, maybe a wind-up motor would work, as long as it has enough power, and has a long duration
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#4 CaptainSlug

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:04 PM

Full-auto with nerf requires motorization of one form or another. Be it an air-motorized spring-loaded valve system (which nerf has used for a few models), a controlled solenoid valve, or an electrically motorized action. The difficulty in designing a working setup is why it's so rare to see anyone accomplish it. The energy stored and released to fire a nerf dart is far too small to actuate a self-sustaining firing loop. There's no constant supply of energy like what a normal firearm uses to actuate itself in full-auto. Therefore with Nerf you have to find a substitute source of energy for actuating the cycle.

I'll get back to work on my projects in a week or two. Making a drum magazine in the Thompson style (spring-feed) would require shell casings of some kind or a system to advance the drum with each shot. I've designed some fairly simply ways of manually advancing a drum with the priming cycle but I don't have time to machine it right now. I'll get to it after CSHG is working.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 02 May 2006 - 03:11 PM.

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#5 rotoryfan

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 09:09 PM

why not recreate a razorbeast type fire, with a crank. instead of having the ridiulous chains, make it a clip. A very large clip. you could have the mechanism pull back the spring as it opens the breach, and at the same time that the spring is released, the breach closes. Repeat. that would work fine, and with trial and error, it could be done without any problems. just make a really really big clip. maybe a 20-30 dart clip. just use the deo clips, and since they stack, just glue a bunch of them together, all of them having both bottom and top cut out but the bottom one. this is assuming that it is spring fed, which would be quite a feat if it doesn't kill the darts. eh? you could use a kennex gear, because they happen to be the perfect size, and are probably strong enough to withstand a powerful spring. especially if you double up on the gears. I might look into this, when I gain rescources and an empty shell... maybe the massive LBB case would be big enough, with some modification...

this could be the start of some beautiful new homemades...
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#6 CaptainSlug

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 04:05 PM

A crank would involve gears. And gears require very precise machining which only a few of the members on this board can manage.
Plus a crank would make aiming difficult.
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#7 m15399

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 05:15 PM

Full-auto with nerf requires motorization of one form or another.

Wrong.

If you wanted full auto without priming, then you're right.
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#8 davidbowie

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 05:40 PM

If you wanted full auto without priming, then you're right.


When he says "motorization", he means motorization, not electric rotary power. This could be, say, an air motor such as in the RF20.
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#9 rotoryfan

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Posted 06 May 2006 - 06:40 PM

no. I think that I could fairly easily create a mechanism that would push the spring back. Its too hard to explain though, in words. I would really have to show my idea in person, since it's not complete, and I have a long list of mods to do first, so I can't start on this now anyway. (I'd much rather just get an RF20 and turret mod it. and replace the bladder with an external, backpack bladder. there was an old super-soaker that had a backpack that almost definitely had a bladder in it. that is the perfect example of a separate bladder.
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razorbeast,
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#10 CaptainSlug

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Posted 07 May 2006 - 04:01 AM

The Sledgehammer is a regular manual spring-plunger gun. Nothind is automatic about it. I just unified the spring-priming with the dart advancing. I'm still working on a pressure-tank full-auto nerf gun design.

Time to explain Newtonian Physics.

Motor
noun
1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts motion.
2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power. Or similarly pneumatic or hydraulic systems.

You can't get something out of nothing. Perpetual motion is only pursued by the naive or delusional.

You are converting one form of energy into another and it's used every time you fire a dart.
All the energy you put into the dart can't be restored.
You have to have a supply of energy to replenish what was used. In a spring-plunger or manual pump systems this replenishment is coming from the effort you have to expend to compress the spring.
The full-auto guns Nerf has made simply use part of the pressurized air as "fuel" in a "motor"(in the form of a pneumatic lever-pin solenoid) to cycle the gun.

There are plenty of different sources of "fuel". In conventional firearms the explosives used to fire each bullet are what allows automatic weapons to cycle in a loop. With Nerf the "fuel" is not included with each dart so it has to be sourced externally by some means.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 07 May 2006 - 04:07 AM.

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