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Realistic Ranges


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#1 munson20

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:10 PM

I have been wondering every second reading posts about thed ranges other people have been getting, and I wonder, How do they get around 100'. I even pulled out a measuring tape that stretched 60' and my crossbow, with an extended barrel mod only went about 54'. I was shooting dart tag micros but even if I shot good stefans, it wouldn't make a 46' difference, or double the range! I dont know why my mods suck so much? Is it that I am honest with my ranges, or is it that I just do suck at modding. I will soon have pictures up of my crossbow mod to see whether there is something wrong with the gun, but please, everyone, enlighten me!
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#2 Greek Assassin

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:17 PM

When you say extended barrel, do you mean barrel relocation and replacement with brass, then using properly weighted stefans? If not, thats why your not getting 100ft.
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#3 GeneralPrimevil

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:19 PM

Your modding may suck.

I dunno. One time three years ago my barometric pressure skyrocketed and my darts would not break the 50ft mark any more often than a male human gives birth to a cat.

Another time, when the pressure fell, I was getting some incredible ranges with my BnA (farther than my singled AT3k was getting), up until the point of it sending the handle through the back of the piston.

Would barometric pressure or atmospheric pressure (same thing, really) make that much of a difference?
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#4 munson20

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:21 PM

I added a brass part to the cylinder (taking away yellow tubing and top barrell) then added a crayola marker to that... and shot dart tag bullets, but it went only around 50'. Can you explain this??? Once I took off the marker and just shot a dart, and it didn't go as far as it would with the crayola barrel and it rose up a lot??? WHAT AM I DOING WRONG???
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

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#5 Greek Assassin

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:24 PM

How long is your barrel?
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#6 munson20

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:25 PM

from the cylinder to the outside, it is about 4-5 inches, but it only stick out of the gun 1 or 2 inches. The reason it is small because the crayola is usually there, however, I wanted to use stefans, and the marker isnt good for it.
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

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#7 ompa

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:26 PM

I will stake $50 that when I measured my X-bow ranges last they hit 100'+. At least according to my walking tape measure, but even without it, I can garuntee at least 60'.

Check all your barrel seals, and your plunger seal. I actually went overboard. I replaced the spring and added a whole new plunger head to get a better seal. Also, I added some bungees. I wonder how long the thing'll last, but I've reinforced most of the crucial parts.

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#8 munson20

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:28 PM

Do all of you do the breech barrell type? See I just stick the dart in the top and shoot... maybe that is my problem?
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

I know not what WWIII wil be fought with; however, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones...

#9 ompa

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:38 PM

The dart should be as close to the air source as possible. The more space you have between the dart and the air chamber the worse performance you'll have.

EDIT: Yes, I use a breech barrel.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 03 April 2006 - 09:38 PM.

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#10 munson20

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:40 PM

But having it as far away as I do, I still don't get the apropriate range. I even push a dart down there to test it, and it still doesn't go very far. When I shoot it, it just rises a lot!!!!!!!
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

I know not what WWIII wil be fought with; however, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones...

#11 ompa

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 09:59 PM

Any chance you can get a picture or two up of your setup? I'll do my best to diagnose your problem(s).

~ompa
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#12 Gh05t

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:09 PM

It is possible, although unlikely, that your gun is bursting the darts you are using. I found that when I first modded my Airtech 2k I was getting aparently crappy ranges b/c I was actually putting cracks in the darts and most of the air was escaping. Yet I highly doubt this is your problem as you would have noticied this by now. My other advice is that you want the darts to fit as close to the air-source as possible, as said before, but you don't want to force them down there. It is ideal to have the darts fit as closely to the diameter of the barrel as possible without actually touching it. The less friction the better. On the other hand, if you were using a gun with a very short barrel such as a pistol you would want the darts to fit as snugly as possible so as not to let any of the air escape. In short, your barrel may either be too big or too small to achieve great ranges. It also helps to replace the O-ring on the gun with a thicker one. That makes a world of difference. I hope this helped man.
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#13 lilsniper

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:20 PM

Adding to what Gho5t said..using a coupler for your barrel would be the easiest wau to get the dart close to your gun's air source. All you do is epoxy a 1/2" coupler to the front of the plunger tube. You may need to cut down some of the casing in order to fit the coupler. Then, you have a system that allows you to load up your barrel with the dart and easily attach it to the gun..AKA breech loading. Check out the crossbow mod in the modifications section of this website for a detailed mod. Do that exact mod, and I mean EXACT..and the gun should impress you.
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#14 munson20

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 10:54 PM

Looking at the crossbow mod, I see that the airway connected to the air chamber is a 1/2" pvc, and I was wonder, Is there anything under this? My crossbow has 9/16 brass connected to the air valve and I was wondering whether this was the best material to connect? If not, what did you guys use and what would you recomend. Basically, explain your whole crossbow barrell system...
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

I know not what WWIII wil be fought with; however, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones...

#15 ompa

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:01 PM

Are your darts semi-loose in 9/16? If so, use a nested barrel, with a few inches of 17/32 at the back, with the rest of the barrel being 9/16. Experiment with lengths, but if your barrel is pure 9/16 brass and your darts are loose in that, then there in lies your problem.

Although how the hell did you link the crayola and the brass?

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 03 April 2006 - 11:01 PM.

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#16 davidbowie

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:02 PM

wait, there's a valve on your crossbow?

Isn't it a springer?

What's going on?!
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#17 munson20

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:05 PM

I linked it by just dabbing some glue in the brass then sticking the marker in... then taped over it, thats all...

When you say semi loose, do you mean, sliding down to the bottom, or able to push down the barrell easily?

Also, should the removeable barrell that fits into the stable barrell be pretty tight, or tight enough it wount slide off. Also, should the dart be loose in the removable barrell, or jsutstable enough to stay wihtout moving?
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

I know not what WWIII wil be fought with; however, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones...

#18 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 04:11 PM

I'm no expert, but from what I can gather, your problem is:


You're using the stock barrel!

You may have used brass, or a crayola barrel, or whatever you want, but unless you open up your gun, take out all the yellow tubing, cut a whole in the front of the gun casing, and put your barrel there, you will not be getting past 60 feet anytime soon.

I may be wrong, but from what I've read, and I am sorry if this is wrong, but you still have the yellow barrel on the top of the gun, where it was originally.

I'd suggest this mod, and trying Level 2 to begin with. If you think you can pull it off without breaking your gun, go for level 3 or 4.

http://www.nerfhq.co...iew.php?p=25445

The level two section of this mod will get you aquainted with your Crossbow's internals and improve your ranges to, probably 70 feet.

If you think you're up to it, go for level 3 or 4, and you should see your Crossbow either break, or fall just short of the century mark.



I am sorry if you have replaced the stock barrel with something. Just, from reading the thread through, you gave no evidence that you had done anything other than a crayola and some brass into the stock, yellow barrel.




EDIT: No, you said you removed the yellow tubing and yellow barrel. Sorry. I guess I didn't read well enough (though all the question marks don't help make it clearer).


But, maybe the problem is just a bad seal.

Post several, detailed picks, in the best focus you can get, from different angles (looking down the barrel, lokking from the left, looking from the right, etc.)

Also, here's another good X-Box mod: http://nerfhaven.com/mods/rawray_xbow/

Really, the best thing you can do right now is try to get up pictures.

Possible problems off the top of my head: bad plunger seal, sticky plunger head, broken spring, bad coupler-barrel seal, bad dart-fit, barrel off-centered (Causing bad accuracy, which is misdiagnosed as range problems), badly placed coupler,
cracked plunger casing, dirt/burs in the barrel.


That's a fairly comprehensive list of possible problems, that could all be diagnosed via good quality pictures.


Sorry to have apparently annoyed you. I didn't mean to come across as condescending: other people have done this before. By this I mean thinking that by sticking a piece of brass down a crossbow's stock barrel, it will magically shoot 100+ feet.

Sorry if I offended.

But, pictures would help clarify greatly.



Sincereley,
Pat

Edited by {SF3G}pat 2nd Lt., 06 April 2006 - 04:29 PM.

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#19 munson20

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 04:16 PM

Im not an idiot, I extended it in the front with brass, but still I only get about 55-65. My quesiton was why arent i getting 80-100 like everyone else.
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

I know not what WWIII wil be fought with; however, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones...

#20 J cobbers

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:37 PM

What I'm really confused about is that you say you are using dart tag darts. While those might fit into 1/2" PVC how the heck are you getting them all the way down your bass? What I suspect your problem is, is that you are using darts that don't go compleatly inside your barrel, i.e. the tip sticks out the end of the barrel. To really get the best ranges you need either ammo that will fit all the way down a decently long barrel (stephans in brass) or a decently long barrel that will let your darts fit all the way down it (micro darts of any type in 1/2" PVC).

A couple other comments:
1) Are you still using the stock spring? To get the most out of the x-bow you need to either replace the stock spring with a stronger one and reinforce the interior or add either rubber bands or a bungee cord to maximize the power of your shots.

2) You also say you are using about 5 inches of brass for your barrel, correct? If you want to do a breach style barrel my suggstion is you use a 12" brass barrel in configuration like in this mod. A short barrel will not maximize the power you can get out of the gun, and the ability to put the dart in the back end of the barrel without a ramrod is really useful.

Edited by J_cobbers, 06 April 2006 - 05:39 PM.

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#21 munson20

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 05:51 PM

No, I extended the barrell wiht brass, and I shoot dart tag bullets. I dont put them down the barrell, i just put them in the front, besides, the rubber wont fit down the barrell. Since I am new to nerf, I havent made a breech barrell or something like it where you put the dart down the barrell, thats why I am asking so many questions.
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In war, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic...

I know not what WWIII wil be fought with; however, WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones...

#22 pat 1st Lt

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 06:09 PM

Well then, I guess you answered your own question.


Why do I get bad ranges?

Because I used five inches of brass when I only use the first 2 1/2 inches with a stock dart!



Use stefans, and either push them all the way down the barrel, or make a breech-modded barrel, and push them in from the back.

Try this or this

for good tips on how to make good stefans.




Sincereley,
Pat
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#23 J cobbers

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 06:54 PM

No, I extended the barrell wiht brass, and I shoot dart tag bullets. I dont put them down the barrell, i just put them in the front, besides, the rubber wont fit down the barrell. Since I am new to nerf, I havent made a breech barrell or something like it where you put the dart down the barrell, thats why I am asking so many questions.

This totally refutes your previous post (where you claimed not to be an idiot). Besides showing that you really don't understand the problem (Which by the way is exactly what I said I though it was in my last post and apparently what pat 2nd Lt. has figured out as well) you are still calling nerf darts 'bullets'. We play with darts, real guns use bullets. Bullets are metal projectiles acclerated from a fire arm usually at supersonic speeds. Nerf darts are subsonic foam projectlies fired with non explosive air pressure out of plastic 'blasters'.

Just because you haven't made a breaching barrel and are new to nerf does not excuse your inablility to understand the basic principle that darts that are closer to the source of air pressure will fly farther than darts which are not. By having the dart a few inches from the end of the plunger tube rather than right next to it at the very back end of the barrel means not as much pressure builds up when you fire the dart, which means you get a worse range.

If you want to keep using dart tag darts then remove your brass barrel and make breaching one out of 6-12 inches of 1/2'' PVC. and a coupler attached to the plunger tube. The darts will fit all the way to the base of your barrel and you'll find an immediate increase in your range. Since you haven't said anything about replacing the spring or adding rubber bands / bungee cords, I'm going to assume that you haven't done so, which further explains why your gun isn't getting good ranges.
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#24 Petrie

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 09:02 PM

when people say that they are getting 100' with a c]ross bow am almost positive that they angle the gun up a lot. i took me a while to figure that out, but try shooting up at a 45 degree angle

hope this helps
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#25 lilsniper

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 09:06 PM

when people say that they are getting 100' with a cross bow am almost positive that they angle the gun up a lot. i took me a while to figure that out but try shooting up more like about at a 45 degree angle
hope this helps

I get 120'+ with my crossbow, and I measured it exactly.

Edit: And it was on a level shot...and im only 5 ft

Edited by lilsniper, 06 April 2006 - 09:06 PM.

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