24 replies to this topic

[Carbon]

I haven't found this as being used before, so I'll post my discovery from last night.

I was wandering around the grocery store, and noticed the candy lipstick. Yep, candy lipstick. I've always thought about how bullet shaped it was, but this time I thought about how it might be used in place of PVC, brass or Crayola for magazine/shell casing uses. They're cetainly less bulky, and premade. I picked up a couple (they cost all of 5 cents a piece). I've seen them in other colors, but they had red and pink for Valentine's Day.

Here's how the size stacks up: stock micro, candy lipstick casing, and my 1.5" stefan.



The real fun happens when you open it (well, aside from eating the candy), and cut the very end off. Stefans fit perfectly. There's more than a passing resemblance to a shotgun shell, there.



You can also use the base, bare.



What's even better, is that there are already air holes in the bottom.



The endcap clicks perfectly into 9/16" brass.



And the other end makes a perfect seal in 1/2" sched 40 PVC.



There's a lot of possibility here...I'm going to be working on these, but I just wanted to post about the material to see if anyone else want to give 'em a try. For five cents, they may have a place...

[Ronster]

Hey, that's a really nice find there, Carbon.
You might wan't to drill out bigger holes in the bottom of the shell, though. It would decrease the airflow otherwise.

[Denaeron 12]

Where did you get those? Where? Where? Where?
I must buy some, it looks like they have awsome potential.
Two things:
1) How tight do the stefans fit in the casing?
and
2) You should paint the white parts with gold or brass colored spray paint.

[Langley]

So basically the colored part is like a crayola barrel?

[Carbon]

Ronster: Yeah, one hole right in the middle of the endcap would be a good idea...

Denaeron: I found mine at the bulk candy section of my grocery store, but I did a quick google just now for "candy lipstick", and found them, including an eBay auction (which I won't link to here), buy it now priced at 48 for $5. More than I paid, but anyway. There's a lot of varieties, though....look around.

As far as the fit, the stefans fit about Crayola tight in the base (it has small fins to hold in the candy), and are sorta loose in the tapering red part (ID looks identical to 9/16" brass). With the shell put together, I tried shaking out the dart, and I had to whip my wrist *hard* about 7 times before it came out. Granted, my FBR sounds like it's bigger than most people's, but it should be close.

Painting could work...it'd just be a matter of finding something durable enough.

Langley: Diameter wise, I'd say the base has more in common with a Crayola. I can make the "shell" fit snugly into 1/2" PVC, but only the end. The fit inside for the stefan is more like a stock micro into 9/16" brass.

I just picked up another 20, so I'll see what I can make happen.

[Denaeron 12]

I see a finally efficient way of making shotgun shells... and it's cheap.

[davidbowie]

The problem with making shells is that these things have no ridge to keep them from getting shot out the barrel.

[Carbon]

They don't need a ridge; they're actually too big to fit down 1/2" PVC. They have a flare to them...they won't fit all the way into 21/32" brass, either.

Edited by Carbon, 19 February 2006 - 04:28 PM.

[davidbowie]

Oh, excellent. They seem perfect, then.

A semi-related and farfetched idea: Would there be a way to make rigid shells with high drag? The reason I say this is that they would make clip feed much more reliable without needing an ejection system.

[Carbon]

Not quite sure what you mean by high drag....how would that help in a system with no ejector?

But to that end, I don't see why you couldn't roughen up the exterior of these shells with some sandpaper to increase the friction...if that's what you're talking about.

I picked up an assortment of O rings and hoseclamps...gonna have to play with these things.

[davidbowie]

Here's what I was trying to say:

These hypothetical shells would be rigid, have a closed off back end, and move freely throughout the barrel. They would have low friction with the dart. They would be shot out of the barrel with the dart. I guess they would kinda be like discarding sabots in that sense. They would have some feature (parachutes?) that would slow the shell down once it left the muzzle, but the dart would continue. Thus, the shells would be ejected with the shot, and you wouldn't need an ejector.

[ompa]

That's fucking sweet, no pun intended. Although while this may be very, very dangerous and very, very bad, I'm going to get a bunch of those, and launch them out of my titan. Just to see what happenes; they're way more aerodynamic than our stefans will be.

~ompa

[Carbon]

I get what you mean, DB....it'd sort of be like a linear catapult, where the shell would be throwing the payload, and then falling out the end. Hmm....

Jesus, ompa, you got it in for someone? Seriously, the only thing that makes me not worry that you'll be up on murder charges is that I don't know what kind of barrel you'd fire the shell out of...it's a little too big or a little too small for most materials. Of course, the candy center is another matter.... Anyway, be sure to post back if you find something that works!

[ompa]

No, I don't really have it in for anyone, I just like making/looking at weapons in general. I wouldn't fire it AT anyone, I'd just like to see the ranges and whatnot from firing a projectile that is very aerodynamic out of a Titan.

I have a nice side, I really do; and I'm one of the better kids in my grade at folding origami. In fact, I just finished making a bush out of origami leaves and roses.



And for a linear catapult, the dart would have to be really loose in the shell.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 19 February 2006 - 07:21 PM.

[Carbon]

Yeah, I was just playing with you, ompa....and I'm totally with you, I'd like to see just how far an LBB or a Titan could toss one of these puppies.

[Denaeron 12]

For the rigid shells, I would make them just hold the stefan lightly, without a closed back end. They would have to be relatively heavy. The air pressure when you fired would push it out of the front of the barrel while firing the dart at a much higher speed (hypothetically).

And my god, Ompa, you are good at origami.

Edited by Denaeron_12, 19 February 2006 - 08:11 PM.

[ompa]

Or if you just stuffed/glued a hollow shell piece into the end of the gun, when you fired it the shell around the dart *should* hit the shell piece at the end of the barrel, allowing the dart to fly out but not the shell. How you'd get the shell out afterwards, I have not the slightest idea.

~ompa

[Carbon]

Wow..just, wow, ompa...nice.

Okay, I whipped up a quick breech loading system to try out these shells. Mainly, it's a beveled tailpiece with an O-ring in it, and a head made out of 1/2" PVC, with nested brass for the casing to rest against. The two are held together with a coupler. I mounted it on the SNAP-1 to test out.

Ranges are identical to a solid Crayola'd PVC barrel, so it's a good sealing system. Ranges also aren't great (49'), but that's more my darts being a touch too narrow for these barrels. Nesting some 17/32" inside the 9/16" might be interesting.

Beyond that, I've been having fun just shoving stuff into the shells and firing it. I tried a quartered FBR (needs weight), and a half-dozen half-Qtips (nice spread at 15'). I'm curious to see what nanos might do, as well....

Another thing I thought of this afternoon....no reason why you couldn't use these shells with a stock micro in them, and then fill a magazine with them. The shell would counteract the width of the rubber skirting, so they would stack level.

Edited by Carbon, 19 February 2006 - 09:24 PM.

[ompa]

Do your darts slide loosely in 9/16 but tightly in 17/32? Because if that's so, you have basically the same darts I do. 17/32 will give you a fairly large performance boost out of your SNAP guns if your darts act like mine. Just put it in front of the shell and bend the rim to the outside a bit; the dart will still fire through the constricted region of 17/32.

For spring guns, try CPVC, the tightness works wonders and you get one hell of a pop assuming the dart can make it out of the barrel.

BTW for those of you in high school; paper roses are great for asking girls to dances, prom, etc. Plus you can make them just about anywhere you go, and people are always impressed.

~ompa

Edited by ompa, 19 February 2006 - 09:43 PM.

[Carbon]

Yeah, we have the same FBR. I have 17/32" fixed brass barrels, and those are the ones I get my 70+ foot ranges out of. I have the PVC barrel for when I shoot stock micros. I'll try nesting some brass as soon as I get some more, and give it a slight flare where it meets the shell. I've given a few passing looks to CPVC, but it seems *way* too snug.

Edited by Carbon, 19 February 2006 - 09:52 PM.

[davidbowie]

WHOA! Sorry to keep hijacking the thread, but I got it!

Using ompa's idea about a lip on the muzzle would be good, but it negates the entire purpose of not needing ejection. So, I got the idea to cut an opening on the bottom of the barrel for the casing to drop out of once it's stopped. It's simple and (hopefully) effective.

Yet another thing on my to do list.

[ompa]

Yeah, you could do that. I had the design for making a snowball cannon, but it never snowed enough to warrent making it.

But then I realized that the shell would have to hit with considerable velocity, or else the shell would drop before hitting the lip, causing the dart to go nowhere.

~ompa

[davidbowie]

If the shell drops before hitting the lip, it's a really weak gun and you should start over.

Now all I have to do is figure out the sizes for all this. 3/4" fittings fit well in 1 1/4" PVC, so I'm thinking the shells will be sections of 3/4" with an endcap on one end and a coupler on the other. I'll also experiment with some 3/4" sch80 shells with an open back end.

Maybe I should just start a new topic, instead of hijacking yours.

[J cobbers]

Where did you get those? Where? Where? Where?
I must buy some, it looks like they have awsome potential.
Two things:
1) How tight do the stefans fit in the casing?
and
2) You should paint the white parts with gold or brass colored spray paint.

It's called google, and it helps you find stuff. Just google candy lipstick and you'll get a bunch of hits. I for instance found this:

http://store.yahoo.c.../calijar14.html

[Carbon]

Nested some 17/32" brass, and flared the end that sits next to the shell (wide enough so it can't pull past the 9/16"). Sealed the end with glue, and went to fire. Much better: 71' feet, flat, from the SNAP-1

The shell is set, the seal is set...now to make a magazine....