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Self-propelled Arrows/missles?

Ever done before?

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#1 SG Pilot

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 12:16 PM

I was thinking about nerf arrows and missles for a bit and wondered. What if the missles or whatever had their own propulsion system in them like a bladder of air in them that gets blown up and on the firing of the missle, is triggered and slowly releases all of the pressured air? If it is light enough, it could maybe increase the range of it by a lot. Has this ever been considered by anyone?
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#2 Team Slaya

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 12:20 PM

It would be cool if it worked, but not too practical in a nerf war. I know that's probably what you weren't driving at, though.

IF you somehow got a small bladder of air in the back of a missle/arrow, how would you put it onto the gun to fire it? And how would you have it release? I don't think that this is realistic at all.

TS
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#3 DTReaper

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 12:40 PM

maybe if you have a string on a quick release on the bladder it could release the air after a distance. It might work.

-DTR
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#4 m15399

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 01:07 PM

Or you could have a homemade that pinches the end of the bladder and releases it at the pull of the trigger. It would be extremely innacurate in any case (come to think of it it wouldn't go very far at all, either). If you figured out how to make a very small nerf grenade and used it as a nose cone type thing on the rocket, it could be slightly useful. You really need a longer lasting, more powerful propellant.
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#5 Nerforbust

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 01:24 PM

Can anyone say rocket engine?
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#6 Pineapple

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 01:34 PM

Posted Image

Funny you mention rockets...

That is one of my son's Christmas presents. I don't intend for him to shoot it at anyone, but in addition to the spud howitzer I'm building now, I'd figure to round out his ballistic education with a good toy rocket that doesn't burn anything (engines=money). I had Estes model rockets when I was a teen and caused some damage in the neighborhood. Hopefully this is a safer alternative (though not as high as the old school rockets).


EDIT; corrected picture.


-Piney-

Edited by Pineapple, 10 December 2005 - 01:39 PM.

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<!--quoteo(post=209846:date=Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM:name=boom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(boom @ Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM) View Post</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
It's to bad you live in hawaii I bet there are not many wars there.Wait what am I saying<b> you live in hawaii you lucky bastard.</b>
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#7 m15399

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:14 PM

Those are not self-propelled. They would probably work better, though.
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#8 ogopogo

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:43 PM

You could take a co2 cartrige and put it in a nerf rocket. Then drop it down a pipe with a nail at the bottom. This might not work.
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#9 m15399

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 05:41 PM

A nail can't pierce a co2 canister, if that's what you're saying.
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#10 man with many guns

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 10:22 PM

Pinney, a long time ago, I have fired that exact rocket, and it is no where near dangerous. I have fired engine powered rockets to, one almost blew up near me, with that I have had no problems with any failure. Depending how onld he is, you could proboly have him with it unsupervised. You pump it estamting 30 times, and there is a guage telling when it is full, then you press a button ( I forget where it is now) then it fires. It fired about 90 feet in the air, definetly as high as an engine rocket using an a or a b engine. It doesn't go anywhere near whree it is fired even with no wind. There is no parashoot to set up eiother. Once again, depending on his age, he could put it together himself. Assmbly is only connect the barrel, and the plastic tube to the pump tube. It is very very durable to, we fired it probably 25-30 times in a row, doing the same thing the next day. I don't think it would be to easy for him to fire it at things if he doesn't have any one helping him, as the pump tube needs to be held up. I think he'll love it!
Sg, I don't think that would be practicle in a nerf war.
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#11 Pineapple

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 12:23 AM

Agreed, guns.

What happened when I was younger, was that I used to experiment with friends with engines, and ejection delay (the last number on the engines; C6-3, for example=3 second delay).

For example, if a rocket took C6-3s, we'd use C6-7s, to see if we could get the 'chute to open on the way down, 30-40 feet off the ground. Well, we found out that exhaust gas is HOT, and sets dry grass aflame. The neighbors weren't too happy.

Hopefully, this will be a safe, fun alternative. I had thought that the principle of the rocket was similar to the air-water rockets I shot as a kid, which indeed DID have pressurized air and water to propel the rocket skyward.

It probably is like a Titan that shoots skyward.

Sorry to go off-topic temporarily. I'd like to see someone make a self-propelled Nerf projectile...though it's a long shot.


-Piney-
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<!--quoteo(post=209846:date=Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM:name=boom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(boom @ Feb 5 2009, 06:27 PM) View Post</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
It's to bad you live in hawaii I bet there are not many wars there.Wait what am I saying<b> you live in hawaii you lucky bastard.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

#12 man with many guns

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 10:23 AM

It probably is like a Titan that shoots skyward.




-Piney-

No, it is alot more powerful than a titan, It seeems to have alot more presure.

Sg, if you was going to do this idea, inspite of inpracticality, these rockets would be what to do it with, as the sides are plastic. They plastic sides would be perfect for an expanding bladder.
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#13 LastManAlive

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 11:49 AM

Wow Piney. I can see a possible jango fett replication with that rocket. Strap it to your back and slap some jango guns on, and you'r ready to go.
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#14 SKIZ

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 06:24 PM

Now i've given it some thought and came up with a couple designs but all seem to have to many floors. This is basically what all my designs consist of. You have a piece of light wieght tube (pvc?) as the airtank. Then have a tubless tyre valve to pump air into. Cover that with the rubber tips found on darts to make sure you dont hurt the target. Then at the other end have a screwed on endcap (has to be screwed) and drill a hole through the middle. Glue a piece of rubber on the nail but first punture it with the nail and slide it to the flat part. Place the nail through the middle with the flat part on the inside of the cap and the sharp part faceing outwards. Screw the cap on. When you fill with air the nail will try and push through the hole and therefore the seal will become tighter. To fire hit the nail back into the tank. Then when you reload undo the cap and glue the nail back into place.

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#15 m15399

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 07:01 PM

PVC is not light enough. You would need to use something of PTEG weight. Even a metal nail is too heavy. Also, you won't be able to shoot anything with by pumping air into a pipe. You need some kind of rubber bladder to push out all the air.

You aren't going to get any range with air pressure (self-propelled). You need an estes type engine without as much power.
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#16 KirbySaysHi

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 07:54 PM

I would bet, that if you could hollow out the front of a titan missile (know that I've never seen one of these...), then you would have enough room for a small balloon. You could then blow up the balloon inside of the rocket, then use kite string and wrap it around the neck of the balloon. As long as it was wound tightly enough and with enough revolutions, it would seal it off... as long as there wasn't too much jostling.

Then you could just tie the other end of the string to the launcher, and maybe when you shot the missile, the string would unravel.

But... it seems to me, that at this point, if you want a rocket to go farther than it does... you should just build an air cannon and make a special projectile that has a ton of foam padding. The projectiles from here:


Finned Darts
Flares

Those might give some inspiration. But NEVER shoot those at someone... but maybe some ideas can be gleaned.

If I were making a foam missile, I'd probably just use 1/2 CPVC as a stem, wrap FBR around it, then buy some foam from a craft store (or head to the UPS store for packing foam) and shape it into a "head" (this would need to be as wide as the fins). Then, make the fins out of some plastic material (like the binder on the web site above), wrap the leading edges of the fins in bubble wrap or something, then fire that baby out of a 2" PVC barrel.

Boom. Missile.

But... isn't that not nerf? Is it necessary to shoot a huge projectile at someone from 200 yards away?

Copy!
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#17 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 08:53 PM

You could stick a bottle rocket in the rocket and watch it fly fly away. The only problem is that you would have to put either a jumbo bottle rocket or like 5 minis. Also it would be a once only thing because it would explode.
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#18 Sharpshooter

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 08:56 PM

You could stick a bottle rocket in the rocket and watch it fly fly away. The only problem is that you would have to put either a jumbo bottle rocket or like 5 minis. Also it would be a once only thing because it would explode.
EDIT: MY computer frooze and when i restarted it. it showed up as a double post

Edited by Sharpshooter, 11 December 2005 - 08:57 PM.

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#19 Falcon

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:14 PM

Come on guys. Self-propelled rockets/missiles?

Are we still even talking about nerf?

Half of these ideas use combustion and/or they explode at the end.

Are we still even talking about nerf?

This is like saying "I want to add a helium-filled water balloon to a stefan, so it'll counteract the force of gravity just enough so that it'd float forever, thus having incredible ranges. It'll work...right?"

Are we still even talking about nerf?

Just for the record, it won't work. The balloon would act as a giant drag net, and all velocity would be gone. It'd take minutes for the stefan to get to your target (if it didn't stop altogether, which it would.)

I think this is extremely impractical for anything regarding nerf. For something like this to work, it'd take a crapload of extra junk attached to the projectile. That makes it into a semi-lethal object that we're now contemplating "How can I shoot this at someone in a friendly competition of children's guns?"

Seriously...by all means be creative, but don't try to shoot this stuff at somebody. And if you're thinking about this in terms of a war, remind me to never Nerf with you, for fear of my head.
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#20 davidbowie

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 10:22 PM

Could you have a mortar-type device which would shoot padded model rockets (low power engines) which whould have a stand so as to prevent firing under a certain elevation (50+ degrees?)? The rockets would have sections at the end full of small chunks of FBR or little weighted stefans, and sabots at the back, so that the engine would shoot the rocket a reasonable height, then the ejection charge would shoot out the "shrapnel" to rain down upon other players? Padding and light weight would be a must in case it hit anyone, and the engines would have to be low power, but I think it could easily work.
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#21 m15399

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 10:23 PM

"I want to add a helium-filled water balloon to a stefan, so it'll counteract the force of gravity just enough so that it'd float forever, thus having incredible ranges. It'll work...right?"


That can be done, but not in the way you described. It would be a waste of time but it would get incredible ranges. B)
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#22 Meaker VI

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 02:41 AM

I'd figure that making any dart have no weight (and thus float) would also make it worthless; they make bullets out of lead because of it's high density and because things that have higher density retain their velosity longer. ie: a ping-pong ball will not fly as far as a foos ball. Except in space, everything continues forever in space. But nerf won't work in space since it involves compressed air and you can't compress a vacuum.
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#23 Team Slaya

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:55 PM

Heh. My last name is Estes. No jokes. No, we don't own the company.

But seriously guys, I agree with Falcon. This is nerf, and though this experimentation is nice, it shouldn't be thought of as nerf. More of a science experiment. Nerf modding for practical reasons doesn't include Arrows/missles at all, because they aren't as cost effective or as good performance wise either. Just stick with darts. I don't even care which.

TS
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#24 m15399

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 09:29 PM

I realize this is Nerf, but I must adress this comment.

I'd figure that making any dart have no weight (and thus float) would also make it worthless

It has nothing to do with density. It has to do with the mass and the shape of the object (air resistance).

Edited by m15399, 14 December 2005 - 09:30 PM.

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#25 Meaker VI

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Posted 14 December 2005 - 10:44 PM

It has nothing to do with density. It has to do with the mass and the shape of the object (air resistance).


An object with more density will have more mass with less size causing less air resistance. It has been shown that Stephans made heavier will fly farther, usually they are made heavier by putting more weights into the stephan. The weights have greater density than the foam, otherwise they wouldn't make it heavier.
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