42 replies to this topic

[man with many guns]

the56ace, on Nov 6 2005, 09:59 AM, said:

Send me a pic.

Or better yet, post it on here so you get different opinions.

[Tytus Gerrish]

I never bothered to do anything with the overpressure release calve in the bladder. I just bypassed the thing completely by feeding up to 150 psi directly through the Trigger and into the firing mechanism. As shown in these pictures http://tytus.multipl.../photos/album/7

[man with many guns]

Tytus Gerrish, on Nov 8 2005, 08:17 PM, said:

I never bothered to do anything with the overpressure release calve in the bladder. I just bypassed the thing completely by feeding up to 150 psi directly through the Trigger and into the firing mechanism. As shown in these pictures http://tytus.multipl.../photos/album/7

I seen those videos, your Rf20 is sick! What are those ranges?

Edited by man_with_many_guns, 08 November 2005 - 11:27 PM.

[Tytus Gerrish]

The rf20 is what I like to call a pneumatic actuated spring gun. All the air pressure does is move the mechanisms and cock the spring. The spring is what actually launches the darts. So you actually have to stretch the spring to get better punch. It is unlike the power clip where the air pressure is actually used to force the darts out of the barrels. Its distance was no better than any other rf20 until I actually stretched the spring. The rate of fire Increases Drastically however!! And gives you the right to go I AM ARNOLD GET DOWN!! And start spraying.

[man with many guns]

Tytus Gerrish, on Nov 8 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

The rf20 is what I like to call a pneumatic actuated spring gun. All the air pressure does is move the mechanisms and cock the spring. The spring is what actually launches the darts. So you actually have to stretch the spring to get better punch. It is unlike the power clip where the air pressure is actually used to force the darts out of the barrels. Its distance was no better than any other rf20 until I actually stretched the spring. The rate of fire Increases Drastically however!! And gives you the right to go I AM ARNOLD GET DOWN!! And start spraying.

Oh, wow. All Haul Tytus! So you mean the barrels didn't improve range as much as streching the spring? Cool!

[Tytus Gerrish]

i was thinking about this today and i think if i put a weaker spring in the rf20 it would take longer for the bolt to return to the home position and give more time for air pressure to rush into the barrel. the PC has a weak spring to allow air pressure time to seep into the barrel. seing as how the two blasters have the essencially the same mechanism im certian it will work much better than streaching the spring like i already have.

[man with many guns]

Tytus Gerrish, on Nov 9 2005, 03:50 PM, said:

i was thinking about this today and i think if i put a weaker spring in the rf20 it would take longer for the bolt to return to the home position and give more time for air pressure to rush into the barrel. the PC has a weak spring to allow air pressure time to seep into the barrel. seing as how the two blasters have the essencially the same mechanism im certian it will work much better than streaching the spring like i already have.

But wouldn't that decrease range?

[the56ace]

man_with_many_guns, on Nov 9 2005, 03:58 PM, said:

Tytus Gerrish, on Nov 9 2005, 03:50 PM, said:

i was thinking about this today and i think if i put a weaker spring in the rf20 it would take longer for the bolt to return to the home position and give more time for air pressure to rush into the barrel. the PC has a weak spring to allow air pressure time to seep into the barrel. seing as how the two blasters have the essencially the same mechanism im certian it will work much better than streaching the spring like i already have.

But wouldn't that decrease range?

No it wouldent he lied it not a big spring gun he just an dumb ass.

[Tytus Gerrish]

Thadd, you are on the other side of the house from me and I have like 10 nerf guns in here and tons of ammo what makes you think I wont go over to your room and blast you? Stop saying stupid junk on NH or your going to get yourself kicked

Edited by Tytus Gerrish, 09 November 2005 - 07:41 PM.

[cxwq]

Tytus Gerrish, on Nov 8 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

The rf20 is what I like to call a pneumatic actuated spring gun. All the air pressure does is move the mechanisms and cock the spring. The spring is what actually launches the darts.

Actually, it's not.

The spring/piston arrangement is merely a pressure regulator and barrel advance mechanism all in one. The darts are launched by air from the bladder.

[boltsniper]

cxwq, on Nov 9 2005, 07:50 PM, said:

Tytus Gerrish, on Nov 8 2005, 08:33 PM, said:

The rf20 is what I like to call a pneumatic actuated spring gun. All the air pressure does is move the mechanisms and cock the spring. The spring is what actually launches the darts.

Actually, it's not.

The spring/piston arrangement is merely a pressure regulator and barrel advance mechanism all in one. The darts are launched by air from the bladder.

He`s actually right. It's the spring that provides the burst of air to propel the dart. The PC and the RF20 use the exact same setup and operate the same way.

Edited by boltsniper, 09 November 2005 - 08:40 PM.

[ompa]

You sure? It seems to me the air pushes the spring back until it ends up breaking a seal, which allows the air to escape and push out the dart.

~ompa

[boltsniper]

Put your RF20 on "semiauto" so the bolt doesn`t maove as fast. Pull the trigger and watch the plunger move forward. Just before it reaches its forward most position release the trigger. No more air is entering the system and there is no resevoir for compressed air storage in the bolt. After release of the trigger the bolt will kick back and fire the dart.

The compressed acts to advance the turret and compress the spring. The spring is what provides the power for propulsion. Why else would there be such a beefy spring in there. And why else would the piston stroke be so long.

[SG Pilot]

I wonder if I should just replace the orginal RF20's tank with a new one like the PVC one? Tytus, could you possibly give any info on what you did to your RF20 there?

Also, I was told not to plug the overpressure release valve in the RF20. What did you do to get such high psi in the tank?

I will post pics of my RF20's insides with the valve and bladder problem I have later on.

Edited by SG Pilot, 09 November 2005 - 10:27 PM.

[Tytus Gerrish]

To make a PVC reservoir. All you have to do is get a length of PVC. Cap one end put a union and a connector on the other and a hose barb on the end. Use it in place of your air bladder. Because if you don’t use the bladder the bladder can't burst. No they do not explode!!! They just go flat like a tire. I use a regulator and a pair of gauges not only because they're cool it lets you have some control over the ROF (rate of fire) of your gun and lets you know when to stop pumping. Although I doubt you could ever get enough pumps from a human into a PVC tank to make it break.

Important: A Pvc Tank will take longer to pressurize and is harder to pump.

I have a small 12v compressor I use off of a battery.

I will post some pics of how to make a tank and that hoses to plug into the rf20 here http://tytus.multipl.../photos/album/7

[cxwq]

boltsniper, on Nov 9 2005, 06:33 PM, said:

Put your RF20 on "semiauto" so the bolt doesn`t maove as fast.  Pull the trigger and watch the plunger move forward.  Just before it reaches its forward most position release the trigger.  No more air is entering the system and there is no resevoir for compressed air storage in the bolt.  After release of the trigger the bolt will kick back and fire the dart. 

The compressed acts to advance the turret and compress the spring.  The spring is what provides the power for propulsion.  Why else would there be such a beefy spring in there.  And why else would the piston stroke be so long.

I can't do your experiment as I'm at work, but I do intend to try that out. Is it possible that the PC and RF20 are not identical as has always been assumed? Please correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't looked at one of these things in ages, but Spoon and I did take several PCs apart, cut open a piston, and generally play with these things for an entire day.

I don't have a PC in front of me so this is all from memory.

IIRC, when you pull the trigger, air leaks into the piston assembly through a small hole, the diameter of which (in conjunction with bladder pressure) regulates ROF. The pressure building up in the piston assembly causes piston travel and spring tensioning, the strength of which regulates firing pressure. Firing is achieved when (at full travel) a seal is broken and the air which has been building up in the piston assembly is released down the 'barrel'. The spring then returns the piston to rest, closing the piston/barrel seal fairly early in the process.

As I recall, if you let go of the trigger on a PC in the middle of a firing cycle, there is a slow hiss of air being released and the piston returning, but no dart fires.

[boltsniper]

The PC and RF20 could be different. I`ve completely dismantled and RF20 before but have only seen the PC setup through through the case. Product design for market would dictate that you use the same components as often as possible and since the the PC and RF20 are both automatics I don`t see why they would make them operate differently. Just by looking at them, there are a sibstantial amount of components that are interchangable. But since I have not fully dismantled a PC and compared directly with a RF20 system I can not say with absolute certianty that they work the same.

What you just described is exactly what I did when I attempted to build a semiauto homemade. It does work, but it wasn`t very efficient with conserving air though. If you held the trigger down a lot of air was wasted out the barrel after the dart had left. Also I ran into a problem that the bolt would not return home fully if you held the trigger down for full auto. Hasbro may have done a better job designing it than I did though.

Using a hybrid spring-plunger/air system made since to me because it would allow a consistent propulsive force via the spring regardless of the air pressure state.

[SG Pilot]

Wow, I'm so dumb. My valve when put into the bladder of my RF20 pops out because I had unscrewed the hose clamps that were on it! Silly me...