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Broken Plunger

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#1 IronRhino

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 12:20 AM

I just received two crossbows from a friend, but there's one problem. They both have broken plunger. I am going to fix it and mod it with the future NH mod, but I don't know how to reattach the plunger. It's broken right where it gets smaller, about 2 inches down from the rubber thingy.
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#2 DylPckl24

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 07:04 AM

I dont have a crossbow, but I have heard of using a wooden dowel and stuff. Just glueing(SP) on the necessary pieces like the front.
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#3 cxwq

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 10:33 AM

My mod is going to completely replace the existing plunger. My goal is to upgrade the gun to maximize it's potential while simultaneously replacing every breakable part.
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#4 fastabs25

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 05:34 PM

just epoxy it back together wrapped in E-tape for 4 days. then use a small metal rod to enforce the plunger, thats what i did, and its almost perfect, just a little more heavy
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#5 rawray7

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 06:58 PM

okay....two of my x-bows did the same thing, it's easily fixable. find two steel rods (rectangular), that fit in the I groove of the plunger. these should be able 8 inches....well, put one on each side, make sure that they could basically support the whole plunger right now (i.e. - they are wedged in the I-groove). now, mix up some plastic epoxy and glue them right in. it is very important that the width of the plunger does not change, otherwise it will catch on the white piece that raises to release the plunger. maybe i'll submit an x-bow repair section later.


don't use tape for this, please.
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#6 IronRhino

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 10:46 PM

My mod is going to completely replace the existing plunger. My goal is to upgrade the gun to maximize it's potential while simultaneously replacing every breakable part.

Then I guess I'll just wait then. Thanks. That sounds tricky, how hard will it be?
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#7 cxwq

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Posted 02 June 2003 - 11:19 PM

I've wondered about putting some kind of difficulty scale on my mod writeups. The problem is that everyone has a different skill set. What's easy for one person might be really difficult for another and vice versa.

This one will be hard.
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#8 Cennydd

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 05:27 PM

My mod is going to completely replace the existing plunger. My goal is to upgrade the gun to maximize it's potential while simultaneously replacing every breakable part.

Tried to puzzle that one out a couple years ago when I was into it. Good luck, the problem is every time you upgrade a piece, you have to figure out a way to upgrade the piece that the newly upgraded piece is going to cause to break. By the time I was done thinking it through, I had "mind-machined" a new crossbow out of aircraft aluminun and titanium alloy (j/k of course)... only problem was, I'm not a machinist. I set that one aside for a while.

You seem pretty talented with mods, if anyone can do it, you should be able to. Good luck.
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#9 cxwq

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 12:04 AM

Thanks.

Yeah, I'm aware that I have to:

1. Completely rebuild the plunger in it's entirety from threaded steel rod, nuts, washers, brass tubing, PVC, rubber o-rings, etc.

2. Replace the spring with something more useful

3. Replace the catch piece if it's going to hold the new spring in

4. Strengthen the case so it can hold the spring and catch piece without snapping

5. Do something about that god awful trigger

Well, okay... #5 isn't strictly necessary but the ergonomics on that trigger are horrible. You have to pull it back almost flush with the case...
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#10 Spoon

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 12:20 AM

I dunno.....I speak from experience when I say that when you start loading some serious draw strengths on that catch piece, you'll have a lot more work cut out for you then it may seem. For instance, not only the catch piece needs reinforcement (or rebuilding more aptly), but so does the catch piece track, and the spring containment walls, and the outer casing needs some kind of anchoring to attach these reinforcements too. The trigger itself will get eaten up by a metal catch piece which is holding a large load, you'll probably have to reconstruct it too, and likewise make sure it fits in IT'S track, etc. I had some annoying problems with the metal reinforced trigger I did for Wolverine, it was just so hard to fire because the gun had a 50 lb drawstrength.....

I do think you'll have considerably more success than I did however, you're methodical and neat style of modding is much better suited for a project like this than my "grab a dremel and improvise" style.
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#11 Cennydd

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 08:17 PM

I tried similar materials to the ones you listed... that's a tough road to travel. The case is not strong enough to support that stuff. I suppose the right epoxy and a strong polymer of somekind would work for reinforcing, but I think you would be better off just running strips of tool steel (small...1/8" or less) along the plunger with epoxy. That will never break. You could do the same to the stress points, sheet metal and epoxy to support what's already there so you don't have to remake it.

So some of that and it will support stronger spring... but then you need a better plunger...I guess you already know all that. I gave up and went back to bands.

I'm definately impressed with your other mods. That's what really got me interested in Nerf again. Your barrel work is fascinating, have you tried porting and polishing... ala paintball barrell mods? I have done that with copper and seen noticable improvement.

Good luck.
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#12 Spoon

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 08:45 PM

Bah, screw epoxy. In my experiences, chemical adhesives just can't always be relied upon. If I'm going to do a mod as extreme as this, involving lots of metal work, I'm going to bolt everything together that I can, and rely as little as possible on epoxy.

Can you describe in more detail the porting and polishing mods? I'm not really into paintball so I'm not quite sure exactly what that entails (aside from a very general idea).
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#13 Cennydd

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:12 AM

Bah, screw epoxy.  

We use an epoxy in our shop that is strong enough to actually fabricate parts out of. It's called G2, we use it because it will bond to oily and acidic woods where most epoxies will not. It's nothing short of amazing. Normally I wouldn't mess with epoxy either, but I love this stuff.

 

Can you describe in more detail the porting and polishing mods?  



To polish a barrel, you basically just use a series of jeweler's rogues and buffer to put a mirror polish on the inside of the barrel. You have to get a little creative and make the inside buffer yourself, but they are easy, I just used a small buffing attachment that I sized and stick on the end of a drill bit. Best results come from using it in a drill press, but you can do it by hand. The port is just a series of holes at the end of the barrel to let the air expand so it doesn't push the tail of the dart around when it exits the barrel. (barrel wash) You can use shorter barrels that way since you don't need to allow distance for the speed of the dart to exceed the speed of the air. They exit straighter and with less noise. I did see a mod where someone was porting the end of their pvc barrel.

It's my guess that it will increase performance, but how much? Who knows. I am going to try it shortly and do a before after, so I guess we'll see. It looks cool too. :)
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#14 cxwq

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:26 AM

Rather than porting, I played with expanding the diameter of my barrel for the last couple inches. Sort of a continuation of the telescoping barrel idea. My EaBs currently have a 10" 9/16" main barrel with a 1.5" 19/32" extension that allows air to escape around the dart as it's exiting the barrel. It's hard to measure objectively but subjectively it feels more accurate and consistent.

Thanks for the ideas!
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#15 Spoon

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Posted 25 June 2003 - 03:27 PM

I might try both ideas if I get a chance when I do Jordan's Max Shot this Friday.

Where can I buy that G2 stuff? That sounds awesome.
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#16 Cennydd

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Posted 26 June 2003 - 12:54 PM

Where can I buy that G2 stuff? That sounds awesome.

To be honest I'm not sure where in the states... I know it's a Canadian product, I use the stuff in the shop mostly. You can try Canadian Tire, it's a hardware outlet in Canada, they may sell online. I'll check and see who our stateside supplier is. It's remarkable stuff... I use to fill worn areas in violin bows where finger acid and pressure have caused a divet. That repair lasts years.

Try this link:

http://www.plasticworld.ca/Epoxy$.htm
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#17 Ash

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Posted 03 July 2003 - 09:32 PM

For whoever was fixing the plunger in the first place, I find it best to use screws that will hold in the plunger in combination with the epoxy, because epoxy has a tendency to fall out and FSU.
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#18 Langley

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Posted 04 July 2003 - 10:38 PM

...If I'm going to do a mod as extreme as this, involving lots of metal work, I'm going to bolt everything together that I can, and rely as little as possible on epoxy...

I tried using machine screws and knuts with the "proxy server" and it didn't work very well. Granted, I was using them to install a mounting bracket for a 1500 on the side of a super soaker, so the metal and screws didn't support the structure of the gun, they just added to it.

I would personally opt for pop rivets, but from the sounds of it you don't like planning details ahead of time so you'd probably go crazy drilling out rivets that you placed in the wrong spots.
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#19 Spoon

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Posted 05 July 2003 - 03:58 PM

Yea ok bolting a metal-encased gun onto a plastic super-soaker with screws didn't work. Big suprise there. When I said bolting things together, I'm referring to metal on metal connections. Where every load bearing surface is reinforced by, or replaced with metal, which in turn is anchored into metal plating. Now thats beyond the scope of almost every mod, but if you're going for maximum strength and durability, it's not a bad idea.


You named your gun "proxy server"? Jesus Christ......
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#20 Ash

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Posted 06 July 2003 - 08:19 PM

Some poeple name guns silly things...

Proxy Server
The Gayman
Damien
The Robert Loggia

Must I go on?
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#21 Spoon

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Posted 06 July 2003 - 09:38 PM

No no, Robert Loggia is a badass name, since Robert Loggia is badass. As is Hans Blix (forgot whose gun that was), but the others suck.
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#22 mr box

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 12:19 AM

I want to name my gun Chemical Ali now.
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#23 neonerfer

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 12:23 PM

Not if I can name mine that first.

*names whip tail scorpion*
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#24 triggerhappy

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Posted 07 July 2003 - 07:47 PM

name it sweetie
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#25 Raecroft

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 03:14 PM

About Porting and polishing I have an improvized method to polish ala mattspro-carbpage you take a plastic coat hanger and cut off the straight part then you take some cloth (enough to fit the barrel snugly) anuse a small tack to hold it in to one end like this ---------------()< where ----is the rod () is the cloth and < is the tack. then you put a wood screw in the other end partway. to use it you just put the screw on a drill and pur ample amounts of polish down the barrelturn the drill on and work it up and down the barrel till it's polished.
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