29 replies to this topic

[Goodtwin]

I figured as I am not new too Nerf but haven't been on the forums in many moons. That I start off with a interesting subject too talk about. Which is more important Range, Accuracy or rate of fire or a combination of them all in your weapons? I believe that range and accuracy combination can beat anything. Rate of fire is a big pat of how long you last in a game but it also comes down to a player and how good he/she (for you girls out there) is. I know a few people don’t believe in long range fire. Some would rather sacrifice range over accuracy and rate of fire. I think you could pick people off before you should have to duck and dive out of the way of incoming fire. But if you are skilled enough too do it then you have a great power on your side. But if you come up against a RF20, Wildfire or a Power Clip you are screwed. Like I said I’ll choose range and accuracy over rate of fire. What do you think?

[NinjZ]

I prefer a mix of all. I usually use dual Splitfires. They have great RoF being semi-auto, very accurate, and I also get about 80' flat from them. Another great blaster for RoF, accuracey, adn range is the AT2k. Modding the turret gets you 1 shot for every 5 pumps for up to 90'. As far as comming up against a person with a RF20 or a PC I've never had much problem. Just turn and run at full speed. The autos dont have much for accuracey or range.

Edited by NinjZ, 25 May 2005 - 10:47 AM.

[cxwq]

Range, Accuracy or rate of fire

Yes please.

[boltsniper]

Like CX said....

Why compromise?

[Bad Karma]

Tee hee, silly boys...

But I do agree with them. All three would be mighty fine indeed.

And since we are showing our guns...Here's Alf the big fag bow...



Needs a new paint job...

[Goodtwin]

boys and there toys........

[NerfMonkey]

I say RoF and range. I mean, if you have a really good RoF you still need accuracy, but for guns that can get off a shot every three or fewer seconds, accuracy's not that terribly important, as you'll probably hit the target if you have a lot of quick shots anyway. Range is good though because you don't want to charge at someone, then realize they'll shoot you before they're even within your gun's range. AT2k is good, as it's been said, and also the 3k, because they have all that plus accuracy. I rarely use them, however. I carry an RF20 as my main and an NF or singled 2k as my sidearm.

Combination of all three is the best.

Edited by NerfMonkey, 25 May 2005 - 02:58 PM.

[Beaver Vortex]

I think a combination of rate of fire without being automatic and accuracy. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've ever hit somebody from over fifty feet. Style of playing I guess. So I thought, concept wise, the sawtooth and the electric eel are very good. They just are pretty much useless outside. A shame.

[duce]

Yeah combinations of all three of those is tough to come by but are great blasters. I personally don't like to use blasters that have all three of those however. I play in small groups where we usually divid up range and rof amongst ourselves which puts a emphasis on teamwork. Everyone's style is different though.

Edited by duce, 25 May 2005 - 03:57 PM.

[userjjb]

In my opinion the most important feature off the bat is range. If it shoots 5 ft, it doesn't matter how good your RoF or accuracy is, it just won't work. That said, there certainly is a point of diminishing returns, I'd say anything over 90-100 is overkill, at that point the wind, leading shots, and the inherent inaccuracy of foam darts becomes apparent.

However, I would say that RoF and accuracy are interchangeable. If you have a weapon that can pop off 8 darts per two seconds, with a 12.5% accuracy and a gun that gets of one dart per two seconds, with 100% accuracy, they may be vastly different in design, but still do the same job, hit someone every two seconds (statistically speaking).

Logistically speaking though, accuracy is better than RoF. If you have a gun with a high RoF, it also tends to have a long reload time, leaving you helpless for that period of time.

So in conclusion I would say a combination of range and accuracy is the best. Sure, if you can have all three that would be excellent, but I'm hard pressed to think of a long range, accurate, full-auto nerf gun.

[WEASEL]

Accuracy, then range. If you can doge the other guys hit and you can hit him, thats what it's all about. And accuracy is half of the technique. I just personally like picking people off from long ranges.

[Bad Karma]

boys and there toys........

You talkin to me?

[Devious]

Accuracy, Range then ROF, my first shot has accuracy & rof, with godly midrange ability, i'm going to start using it in conjunction with a max shot just for kicks & giggles

[cerealkiller]

In my opinion, I think that a good team beats them all. If people know how to work well and understands exactly what to do, then the range, accuracy, and ROF is a secondary thing.

But, if we're only talking about those three, then I think range and accuracy, because picking people off farther away is extremely useful, even with poor ROF. You could always carry two primarys, like a good, high powered rifle, and a nice splitfire in case there's no time to reload. I find that generally when you have a gun loaded and ready to go, people don't usually rush, which gives you time to reload the rifle. Heck, one time it was 3 on 1 and I pulled out my scout, and they still backed off.

[achensherd]

I'd say a combination of all three, but more range and accuracy than ROF. If I can get someone from far away, just the idea that I have an accurate, long-range gun will usually keep them far away, and if I can hit them, I don't have to worry about ROF (of course, this is assuming it's not me alone vs. the entire other team waiting for me to fire off my one good shot).

[NerfLad78]

There was a poll on Ultima Nerf not too long ago just like this topic. Im probably the only visitor to that site now .

[Kuhlschrank]

Accuracy is the most valuable. If you can't hit the person, ROF and range do nothing. ROF should be second considering most kills in wars do not take place over the extreme ranges that everyone here boasts about. As long as you have a decent range(25-30 yds), you should be fine in most situations.

[navy seal]

I think range and accuracy would be first for me but I don't want the reload time of a water gun. I use a crossbow/at2k integration which has 90-100 ft ranges, the accuracy is very good and the reload time isn't to long. If you don't have any accuracy you won't be able to hit anything no matter how many darts you shoot or if you don't have any range your going to get picked of by people with medium range guns.

[AirApache]

You're all wrong bitches. Rate of fire is the single most important feature in guns. Now if you're smart you'll pick up the rest and be cool like cx or boltsniper, but honestly, most Nerf battles are held less than 30 feet away, and when you have a crossbow against your friend's secret shot, kid, if you miss your shot with the xbow then you're screwed. Then again, it depends on how familiar you are with your gun. Right now my weapon of choice is the sm1500 (looking for at3k) and I've practiced it to the point where even if I only had two of the barrels to use I could probably beat you if you had a power clip and the battle was 30 feet away.

Rate of fire will always be the most important aspect in nerfing.

AA

[J cobbers]

Idealy, like Cx and Boltsniper say, don't compromise if you don't have to. All three are important when choosing/modding/building a gun. That being said, if I had to order these in terms of priority I would put accuracy first. A gun that shoots straight every time makes learning to aim it much simpler and you don't have to worry about a weird shot every not and then. I'd put range as my second priority because a gun with a better range will have more velocity on the darts. Faster darts are harder to dodge, plain and simple. I put rate of fire last, because if you have the first two you should be able to hit someone with fewer shots.

BTW Air Apache you sort of contradicts your ownpoint, by saying you can beat a guy with a Power clip, perhaps the nerf gun with the greatest RoF ever, with an SM1500 which has a good RoF with 4 shots, but is better known for 1) Accuracy, and 2) Range.
You do however make better less obvious point, and that is that as a nerfer, one needs to be familiar with your gun. A vetran nerfer who is well practiced with his gun, what ever it may be, is much more likely to hit the newbie who is using a nerf gun for the first time, than the other way around.

So while aspects of the gun like range, power, and RoF are important, being able to use your gun well is a greater concern. The nerfer is more dangerous than the blaster.

[The Infinite Shindig]

You're all wrong bitches. Rate of fire is the single most important feature in guns. Now if you're smart you'll pick up the rest and be cool like cx or boltsniper, but honestly, most Nerf battles are held less than 30 feet away, and when you have a crossbow against your friend's secret shot, kid, if you miss your shot with the xbow then you're screwed. Then again, it depends on how familiar you are with your gun. Right now my weapon of choice is the sm1500 (looking for at3k) and I've practiced it to the point where even if I only had two of the barrels to use I could probably beat you if you had a power clip and the battle was 30 feet away.

Rate of fire will always be the most important aspect in nerfing.

AA

I don't think I could possibly disagree more. I have faired just fine for the last five years with single shot guns that had accuracy. The range my guns have had was never great, but they were all single shot and I've done just fine over the years. With the exception of pistol rounds, most of my Nerf experience comes from distances of 40+ feet away. If the distance was closer, it was during a rush of some sorts or the match was in the woods. Believe me, I've seen a bush turn multi-shot guns into crap in less than three seconds. The problem is that the darts usually don't carry the initial velocity to power through leaves and branches. By the time the person is done shooting, the damn bush looks likes a Christmas tree and I'm sitting behind it with a big grin on my face.

The problem with multi shot guns is they don't have the range, and I've found their darts pretty easy to dodge at times, because they are already beginning the downward plunge (due to gravity) shortly after leaving the barrel. An overwhelimg amount of the times I have squared off against multi shot guns, I have found that range and accuracy prevail. This is largely due to the fact that if I miss, I can usually outrun whomever my opponent is. During this run, I can usually reload while heading into a better position where I either have the advantage or move closer to team mates.

When wars are held with multiple people and at a distance (which is the form of play I am accostumed) any form of rapid fire gun, with the exception of a sm1500 or airtech is utterly pointless.

However, if your style of play works in your area, power to you. Any automatic won't fair you well in NJ wars, but I am sure that if I ever make that fateful trip to SoCal one summer, that I will need to cover myself in holsters and be ready to smile as I get torn to shreds.

Nerf on guys.

[AirApache]

Note that I gave extra special thanks to the sm1500 and at3k, shinny. By rate of fire I don't mean powerclip or rf20. I mean rate of fire I mean you better damn have another shot or two before you have to reload. I see where you're coming from, and that's why those two aspects are important, too. However, when you're only 30 feet away and you've got a crossbow against that guy's sm1500, you're fairly screwed if you guys are equally practiced.

[The Infinite Shindig]

However, when you're only 30 feet away and you've got a crossbow against that guy's sm1500, you're fairly screwed if you guys are equally practiced.

You basically said to analyze a hypothetical situation where two nerfers of equal skill level were having a 1 vs 1 stand off from 30 feet away with no surrounding terrain or team mates. Keeping in mind that one was armed with a sm1500 and the other with a crossbow, I would more than likely give the 1500 the nod if the crossbow missed initially which would agree with your statement. My problem with your statement is that it seems so implausible to me, I can't stand to make it valid. Every single one of my arguments comes from 5+ years of nerfing experience. I've been on both sides of each point I bring up.

However, what I am trying to dispute is that rate of fire is not critical, and cannot be weighed as the most important. I see many other factors that are at play in a real life version of your scenario. The most obvious is the 1 vs 1 match up. Rarely in a war do I see such isolated incidents occuring. There is usually a certain level of teamwork among other members, usually close in range. If you get the chance to Nerf on a team of 5 or more, you tend to see how this point of mine becomes valid.

In your situation, accuracy is the biggest factor, not rate of fire. The nerfer who lays the first direct hit wins (under west coast rules). You are correct that a sm1500 has a sizable advantage, but if the crossbow lands the first shot, or dodges the 1500's first shot, the playing field becomes increasingly more level. The scenario you mention is too simplistic to prove that rate of fire alone will win that match up. I would trust accuracy first and then rate of fire, since range is usually negligible at 30 feet.

Terrain is another whole issue that I am just going to touch upon. As I mentioned before, the surrounding terrain can completely tip the scales for one side or the other. If crossbow guy is fairly well covered and the douche with the 1500 isn't, guess who I would give the nod to? My example from before about the brush to christmas tree transformation carries to this section as well. Branches and leaves can stop, skew, or deflect shots at an opposing player. If I had a dollar for every time that has happened to one of my shots with a long range weapon, I'd be at Armageddeon every year.

I would also like to point out that dodging is pretty important in your hypothetical situation as well. It is just as important, if not more than accuracy. Dodging and foot speed can turn a situation like you listed above around in a matter of seconds. Hell, I've seen Evil out numbered on a 4 vs 1 and come out on top. He had Cain vs four guys with at least a long range gun a piece (two of them had 4 barreled 1500s). Evil had two shots, and his opponents had four immediate ones (and another 6 that could be rotated easily. He still won, and if you ask one of those 4 (namely me) I'll tell you it was his shooting and dodging that was the catalyst in his win.

Timing is another whole issue I would like to bring up. On a sm1500 or an at2k, you still need to rotate barrels and then pump the gun. From an observers stand point it is very close to that of the reloading time of a crossbow or max shot. So from the standpoint of the guy who you say will get rocked, I don't necessarily agree.

I think over the last two posts, you can figure my ranking order but I will restate them.

Accuracy
Range
Rate of Fire

I would like to point out that this list can vary from Nerfer to Nerfer, location to location, group to group, and rules to rules. My arguments come from my experiences over the years with the guys I nerf with, under our usuall 3:15, West Coast style play. Under East Coast style, Rate of Fire becomes exponentially more important. I think most of you can agree that I at least make valid points for the situation above, if you want to throw another one at me to see how I fair, I'll do my best.

Just make sure you've nerfed for a while before you post. We here are Haven have finely tuned bullshit detectors.

Nerf On.

[Starbuck]

I've Nerfed for 10 years of my life and with my experiences, accuracy is number one. I don't give a damn if the other guy has an automatic with 20 shots, if he can't hit you with 20 shots (and I have seen many people unload a Wildfire and not hit anyone) it doesn't mean a damn thing. Without accuracy, there is no kill.

[merlinski]

TIS, the last section of your post explains why its useless arguing about this unless you're talking about a general situation.

I can think of plenty of circumstances where ROF can be the most useful attribute of a gun. If you play indoors, or in relatively close quarters, I'd say it's extremely useful. Primarily because of something you mentioned - dodging. It's relatively easy to dodge a shot from, say, a SM1500, even at ranges of about 20-30 feet. Even the most accurate shots miss once in a while. But if you have a gun like the powerclip, with decent range and accuracy, you can launch enough shots (even a 4-5 round burst) that are much more difficult to successfully avoid. This also depends on the amount of cover - obviously ROF is less useful if, as you said, there are plenty of bushes or things that will deflect shots. But when there's relatively little cover, in situations where people are forced to move between obstacles often, the number of shots you can get off while they're in the open can make a huge difference.

The other thing we have to remember is that we're not talking in hyperboles - If a gun has rate of fire, that doesn't necessarily mean that it shoots 10 feet and in a 180 degree arc. When I was talking about rate of fire, I had a gun like the powerclip in mind - around 40-50 feet of range at least, and the ability to put almost all shots on a human sized target from that range.

Edited by merlinski, 31 May 2005 - 04:42 PM.