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X*stream Modification


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#1 cxwq

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 02:21 PM

I recently picked up the X*Stream Max Shot at TRU and it has a ton of potential. I'll be going back soon to get myself a First Shot. These guns look like the Crossbow and LnL re-issues everyone has always dreamed of.

Potential modifications:

spring replace and/or banding: I don't think this is going to be necessary with these guns. They already have the springs that I would normally go hunting for to replace my Nerf springs with. At some point you get diminishing returns from these power increases and I doubt they would help much.

safety modification: The trigger on my Max Shot has a really janky safety mechanism that disables the trigger unless the cocking lever is all the way down. This is a Really Good Thing™ for the average user - just imagine some kid pulling the trigger and the cocking lever slamming down on his hand. If you can restrain yourself from pulling the trigger until the lever is returned, the safety mechanism is an unnecessary point of failure for the gun.

barrel replacement: This is going to be the critical issue for success of the mod. I haven't measured the volume of the plunger tube yet to confirm my numbers but I'm tentatively planning a 10" (overall) brass breech loader with a 2" nested brass constriction at the base. I want it to hold the dart as tightly as possible while the plunger starts moving. I may experiment with a third (larger) size of brass for the final 2" of the barrel to further reduce barrel friction and get a bit more velocity. I had good results with flaring the last 2" on my brassed EaBs and I think the same concept will work here.

Any thoughts?

I'll do a writeup and post results within a day or two.
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#2 Vassili

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 08:33 PM

I'm doing something very similar, also a breach loader, but I was planning on using a 6-inch barrel, but since you know better I'll be going with a 8 or 9 inch barrel, so the rest of the one foot section will at least be usable as barrels for my Triple Shot. I'll experiment with different lengths of 17/32" brass at the rear, maybe none at all. I'll have pictorial mod writeups for the MS and TSh for the FF revamp, but the TSh might be crayolaed due to lack of brass. The cocking mechanism is really ingenious, the long cocking lever allows for you to be able to use stronger springs. The Max Shot is the new xbow. The Max Shot will be battle tested by IronRhino and myself tomorrow, we're having a 15-or-so person war. I don't know if the First Shot is all that great, but I think the TSh will rule. It's got 3 barrels that auto-rotate when you cock it, drawing impressive ROF. Lanard toys gets a cookie and a half for these guns.
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#3 Pineapple

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 08:38 PM

I AIMed with GunnedDown this morning (Hawaii time) and he said the same thing you did...it having the potential of being the X-bow substitute we've been waiting for...I'm flying into Honolulu tomorrow for business and the Easter weekend and will definitely stop by our TRU and grab a couple....I understand they're pretty inexpensive, too? Perhaps a PVC breech loading mod with megas?

Oh, the joys of interisland air commuting. Such is life.
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#4 Vassili

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 08:40 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot about the prices:

Max Shot: $9.99 | compared to a good condition crossbow: $30-40
Triple Shot: $7.99 | compared to an Airtech 2000: $9.99
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#5 Spoon

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 09:29 PM

Jordan and I will be going to TRU tonight to try and pick them up, although I was in TRU a week or so ago and don't remember seeing them....Our TRU sucks. I'm very eager to get my hands on these guns.
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#6 GunnedDown

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Posted 17 April 2003 - 10:54 PM

... If I could only figure out how to get the F***ing white inner barrel out, then I could do a shitload.
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#7 cxwq

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 12:28 AM

I just finished modding my max shot. I'll range test it tomorrow.

Spoon: This gun is the Real Shit™

GD: I sawed the white barrel down to about 1/4" protruding from the piston tube then I sanded the inside down until I could insert 17/32" brass all the way down to the piston - about 3/4" internal.

I'll try to get the full writeup with photos and modalizer results posted by tomorrow evening.
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#8 Vassili

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 12:29 AM

IronRhino and I finished two Max Shots today, I was impressed and unimpressed. A breachloading 12-inch brass barrel with normal stefans (2 inch, single BB weighted) got an average of 85 feet flat, with the better shots around 90. Accuracy is very very good. I was unimpressed with these numbers, I think tweaked out I can get better. 85 feet is very good, but this gun has more potential.

The part I was impressed with is how it shot stefans made out of stock micros. With airjets-turned-stefans this gun got an average of 132 feet flat, with the best around 145. Accuracy is superb with these darts, I shot a dart at IronRhino from 132 feet and it landed at his feet. If you have any doubts, these were measured on asphault with a measuring wheel thing. Probably an average of a foot or two skipping.

I couldn't finish the Triple Shot mod, but all the pics are set for the Max Shot mod. Cxwq, you'll probably invent a better mod, but I'm looking forward to see how you go about it.

edit:: I wrote this while Cxwq was writing his, just so you know
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#9 Spoon

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 02:23 AM

You're right, this gun IS the real shit. I now have a Max Shot and a First Shot (my TRU totally restocked all Nerf and X-Stream guns). I havn't modded either yet but I opened the MS up and inspected things for a good long while. Holy God, this thing is built like a tank. I mean you could hammer NAILS with the plunger. It has cap pieces to keep the springs from exploding everywhere upon opening. Everything is solid and reinforced. I mean this thing is engineered the way WE would want a gun engineered.

Cxwq: You're method is exactly what I was thinking, using the 17/32" brass piece as a connector between the white barrel and the 9/16". My only worry then is that the only way you'd be able to do a breech loader is by removing the barrel Ray-style and loading directly into the 17/32", which I don't like. I'm still holding out for a true breech loader. Still, I can't wait to see the mod results. Jordan is already eyeing this as his new main weapon and I can't blame him.

On a side note: I got Steph two AT2k's for her birthday (19, woo), so you can count on getting pelted by those this June.
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#10 VACC

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 09:44 AM

.

New crossbow?? ....I better call ash, and get the pick up truck. Time to start hording.

VACC
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#11 cxwq

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 01:17 PM

I just range tested it with 20 shots, 1/4" steel shot weighted stefans. I'll run the numbers though the Modalizerô tonight before I post the mod but just glancing over the distances I'd guess it averaged about 110' flat. Only 3 shots out of 20 were under 100' and the max was 126', 4". I ended up using a 9" overall barrel length with a 2" telescoped section. The telescoped section is really important for this gun.

What's scary is that it would probably do 15-20' better with 3.5" stefans weighted with size 7 split shot. Those would pack a serious punch at close range though so I probably won't go there.

I haven't modded an xbow before so I don't know what I could squeeze out of that gun but it's interesting to note that all I did here was a barrel replacement.
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#12 GunnedDown

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 01:57 PM

Haha! I knew this thing rocked!

C, is the white barrel glued into the red one? If not, I want to try and yank it out. If it is, I guess I'll have to do what you said, but I'm kinda confused on that. Did you cut off the red barrel first? How far into the gun does the white barrel go? I have not opened mine up yet, and I'm hoping that I won't.
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#13 Spoon

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 03:13 PM

Holy Shit.

I'm running to the store to pick up some more 17/32" brass today, I'm going to do the same mod, although I may experiment a bit with barrel and telescoping section lengths. I'd also like to do a breech loader. Kevin, do you think these guns will be TOO powerful for the YANOs? I mean most brass 5K's can't even do 120 feet flat.....

Gunned Down: The red barrel is just a piece that you can remove when you open the gun up (it's pretty easy to open up). Once the red piece is removed, the base of the white barrel, where it hits the compression chamber, is RIGHT on the front of the gun. Once you remove the red piece you can put the gun back together and do a complete barrel change mod without having to open it up again. Breech loaders shouldn't be as hard either since everything will be external of the gun casing. I can't wait, I'm modding mine today. Jordan and I are also scouting locations today Kevin, we'll take little video clips of any good ones to show you.
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#14 cxwq

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 04:10 PM

GD: Yeah, what Spoon said. The white barrel actually extends about 3/4" into the plunger tube which has the conical end piece sealed off with a gasket. The red barrel is just slipped over it and glued onto the front of the case. Open the gun up, remove and discard the red barrel, cut the white barrel down and fit a new barrel over or inside of it, depending on what replacement barrel you choose. You can not remove the white barrel and keep the red barrel - it's not sealed.

Spoon: Brassed 5ks are good for 140' or better. Mine did 120+ and that was one of my first mods - I'm sure I could get it up to 150' if I really wanted to. This gun has about the same range as a really well modded xbow or single-barreled 1500. I don't see any reason to ban it. I'm more likely to put a limit on dart weight than to add more guns to the shit list.
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#15 Vassili

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 07:23 PM

You don't have to open the gun at all to get the red barrel off, you can just pull and use a flathead to pry it off. I figured out today that our stefans are extremely shitty, with the good stefans that the people we were fighting had my gun is good for 90. The telescoping part is just 17/32", right?
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#16 Dan Wask

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 08:18 PM

Wow, can't belive I missed this. But, check out nerfhq.com in the mods forum, I have mods for all the guns there. The ubb code isn't working right now so I can't link over.
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#17 Spoon

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 08:38 PM

Vassilli: Yes.

Cxwq: I don't know about 150 feet but I'd be willing to bet that the velocities are a lot higher on a 5K, seeing as how the pressure is much higher. I'm actually suprised that these guns are firing this far. Still, we'll have to keep an eye next war on the Max Shot's and make sure they're ok.

Also, we need to be a bit tighter when it comes to eye protection at the war. Everyone had some when they got there, but some people would take them off some wars. I didn't even realize it at the time, but looking back I can remember several instances where people were going without eyewear for a battle or two. Not maliciously, they would just forget (just like I'd forget to say something). That shot I had on Cam (50 feet, thwacked DIRECTLY into his glasses from a brass 3K) only reinforces how vigilent we should be. Especially now since we'll be seeing QUITE a few 100ft+ guns next war. We also need to mention up front to attendees that it is NOT ok to purposefully aim for the head. It's not the vets I worry about, it's the kids.
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#18 cxwq

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 09:06 PM

True and True.

I had two relatively long range shots directly into people's glasses as well. You aim up a bit and then your gun surprises you with it's range... Next war it's going to be the responsibility of each team captain to make sure everyone has eyewear on before we start.

This is actually compounded a bit by the max shot because it has a hell of a kick and tends to fire high. I'm going to have to aim at the knees for anyone within 40' or so.

As far as the velocities go in the 5k vs. max shot debate, velocity is the only factor in range given identical darts. If two guns both shoot 120' with the same darts, then they have the same muzzle velocity. I'm quite certain, however, that brass 5k's can easily exceed 120'. The crayola/PVC 5k's that we allow can do about 110-120'. The max shot is going to sting but I don't think it's excessively dangerous.

Don't you remember the first LANO I came to? I angled my brass 5k about 15 degrees and it cleared the handball wall thingy from the tables... easily over 200'. Anyway, now it's a challenge so expect a 5k re-mod with new numbers.
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#19 jon

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 11:26 PM

i have a couple of questions is this a lamari produdoct? why cant you find them on tru.com and could you post up a pic cxwq of what it fist looked like and what you did to it and are you going to put this in the mods section?
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#20 GunnedDown

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Posted 18 April 2003 - 11:41 PM

i have a couple of questions is this a lamari produdoct? why cant you find them on tru.com and could you post up a pic cxwq of what it fist looked like and what you did to it and are you going to put this in the mods section?

No, it's made by Lanard. Not sure why you can't get it at the TRU site.
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#21 cxwq

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 12:40 AM

It's reasonably new I think. Perhaps it will show up on Amazon before long.

I am halfway done writing it up for the mods section. I took 15 pictures from start to finish so the writeup is taking me a while. I'll try to get it done tomorrow.
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#22 Spoon

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 02:07 AM

As far as I remember it HIT the wall with a more or less level shot (maybe 5 degrees or so), and went over it at an angle. I doubt that's 200 feet or so, although we never did find that second dart. I think from the tables to the wall is just about 100 feet, MAYBE 120. That or my vision is starting to go.....
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#23 Dan Wask

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 11:37 AM

I know this sounds strange but I got almost the same ranges as you guys did but only with pvc instead of brass. But what I'm intrested in is what is[B] the velocity these guns get. And, Spoon, CXWQ are you perfectly sure that your shots are level, because in my findings, even if the wind is calm, even 1/10 of a knot could blow a dart downward, or if it is just slightly off level it will decrease the distance.

On my testings with a PVC Max shot I had a level-ed off 2x4 stand inside of a indoor tennis court. And I got ruffly 123 feet with a rolling contractors wheel. So I ask both of you, do think that a brassed Max Shot could get more distance without these outdoor conditions ?

And, also, why did I type all that crap because your probably gonna use the guns outdoor anways... Holy crap that was stupid...
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#24 Spoon

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 01:57 PM

I dunno, I've always been a bit distrustful of those contractor wheel things....I think it's very easy to wobble a bit and NOT get a straight line thereby increasing the reported distance. Still, it's good for a relatively accurate estimate.
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#25 SniperWolf

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Posted 19 April 2003 - 03:14 PM

I just cleared out the restrictor at the end of the barrel and jammed a Crayola marker in there. Not too shabby. ;)
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