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Teamwork:

Is it essential?

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#1 Evil

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 03:07 PM

Who here actually relies on teamwork when they play? I've Nerfed with a handful of teams and different individual Nerfers over the past few years and I was wondering what the community had to say about teamwork in general. I think it's almost essential for victory, although some insist that going solo is better for them. Either way, as long as you are an asset to your team, I guess it doesn't matter if you're using the "buddy system" or the "lone ranger" style. You can't deny success but it's hard to win when you're team is a scattered group without any goals in mind.

The way I see it, is that a team should keep itself informed as to where the opposition is, and should freely talk about what they can do. This happens a lot within the LCM, where we'll briefly chit chat or something about the situation of the game currently, or what our next move should be. A hand motion here and there, insisting as to where one player or another should go also has proven useful with time.

It's a lot easier to win if you play as a team, and a lot harder to lose if you fight like a team. My experiences from Apoc:2002 detailed this for me fully, and I must say that the entire day back in August was a learning experience when it came to the fundamentals of being a team player. With 12 on each team, going at it, if you were caught out in the open, as a "lone ranger", you didn't have much hope. Your chances of survival were slim, and in most cases non-existant.

Well that's my piece, feel free to share your thoughts about teamwork accordingly. Evil out.

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#2 Groove

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 04:05 PM

Teamwork is my team's focus. Teamwork is all about coordination, communication, and timing. In attack/defend & CTF siuations, we plan out what we're going to do and work accordingly. In just simple elimination situations we have enough strategem planned out in our heads already that we don't even have to talk, we just do it. So, yeah, I think it's gravely important to winning.
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#3 VACC

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 04:14 PM

Obviously team work is a must when concerning teams, by its very deffinition, but simply putting an effort forth to communicate and know where the oposition is does not seal a victory. Good teams should be able to coordinate, move, strike, and withdraw, without a word. When your team knows each other you'll be able to play off each other. Of course, I usually encourage mixing teams up to combat this very thing. We nerf for fun, not for dominance, so I always prefer an evenly matched fire fight to a well oiled routing.

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#4 Sacapuntas Cabesa

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 08:36 PM

Whenever I nerf, the teams are almost always different. We try to make balanced teams, changing players, guns, and starting positions each round. We only have 2 hardkore nerfers in our loose nerfing group of 16, so standing teams never worked out for us.

Teamwork is usually present in our games, but in an open area, with small to medium sized teams, a bunch of lone wolfs can take out a well coordinated team.

It's hard to form an effective counter when there's no group to counter.
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#5 merlinski

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Posted 02 January 2003 - 10:12 PM

Unfortunately, I've never been able to nerf with people that completely grasp the concepts of team strategy that I like to use. I'm a big fan of really complex team concepts, which rely on a bunch of people who fully understand them. If you can pull them off, they work really well. If you can't, I prefer to rely on loose teamwork and some loosely-coordinated lone-wolfing.
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#6 Zero Talent

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 12:57 AM

The largest I've ever played with is 8, and the number is often odd, so I often gladly offer to make myself a team of one. Why? I just find it fun. Doesn't always work out the way I hope, and I don't win all too often (I don't like the "wait back, pick off survivors" "tactic"), but it sure is fun when you have no one to let down, and no one to depend on. When teams are even, of course, teams resume, and we use moderate teamwork, considering that the terrain is limited, and all my friends are fans of the "elimination" kind of game, as opposed to anything with declared objectives.
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#7 cxwq

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 02:05 AM

At the LANOs we usually have two teams of 10-15 people each and mix it up each time so there's never time for complicated strategy work. I have enough difficulty explaining some really basic teamwork concepts that I usually just throw my gun down in disgust and chase them around making monkey noises.

<rant>
I mean seriously, how difficult is it to understand that playing west coast style, it's detrimental to your team when you take freaking forever to count back in? Sure, you feel like you're doing great cause it takes you forever to get eliminated but meanwhile your team gets hosed because of your self-imposed penalty time!
</rant>

Of course my favorite strategy, employed at Armageddon last year, is The Meat Shield. VACC and Ash loved that game...
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#8 VACC

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 02:53 AM

Every time you turned my way 10 or 12 little eyes followed your gaze to me, it was infuriating. All I had was that ninja kid who had my back, although I must say, he was a ninja....which was nice.

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#9 Evil

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Posted 03 January 2003 - 06:28 AM

What really got me at Apoc was how many times I saw teamwork, even if it was being used against me (like the time I was flushed out of the woods by Vacc, right into Spoon who was toting his PC) I still acknowledged the fact that both teams were working as teams. And it was one of the first times I had ever really seen that. Very cool now that I look back at it.
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#10 Switchblade

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Posted 05 February 2003 - 04:28 PM

Well, I'm a big fan of teamwork, but the guys I Nerf with don't really go for that (except for 1). They tried to go Lone Ranger...Except a couple of "you go that way, I'll go this way" things and pincer movements. In general, there's not a sufficient amount of teamwork in our games.

But yes, I think teamwork is essential. No matter what your style, teamwork is a must for sucess against good teams.
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#11 Pointman

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Posted 05 February 2003 - 04:41 PM

I think team work is one of the best things about nerfing. You gotta think its what makes you different from the retards who just turn up shooting like lunitics and are shot down within seconds. But every team/ group within a team needs to have one person who is a leader.
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#12 Evil

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Posted 05 February 2003 - 06:21 PM

I've slowly but gradually become more and more fond of the smaller number wars, it allows more tactical variables to prove themselves. Although it's still fun to break off from the team and assault with a smaller, more versatile and mobile group containing about three or four members, I'll always love the smaller more intimate wars. Especially when things go wrong and I have VACC to hold me and call me "Muffin".

...Well as I was saying, teamwork on a smaller scale is more effective than I ever knew.
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#13 Mantis

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Posted 05 February 2003 - 07:13 PM

Here's my ideas on teamwork.
Teamwork is always used, as Vacc (I think) said, since you are on a team, and you are all working toward a common goal (kill the other guys). Now, the way this gets done is where people have different ideas. As Vacc also said, silence is the best way to coordinate attacks, and as he also said, the people that can pull that off shouldnt be grouped together. I agree, that the people who work best when together shouldnt be on the same team, but if it is a large group of people that work well together, some of them will be on the same side. This is when it gets interesting, because the 2 or 3 guys on the team, especially if there are newbies or if it is a bigass war, like Apoc (or Armaggedon as I can imagine) can instill a sense of comradery amongst the team. The core of the team will, hopefully, expand their tactical skills to the rest of those untrained savages. Then, they will eventually get the hang of the way you and your boys work, and they will in turn step it up.
Which brings me to my next point, Murphy's Law which states: Profesional soldiers are predictable, but the world is full of amatuers. This translates very well into nerf, since there are sometimes newbies and vets on the field at once. You can get used to the way some people operate, but the newbies and the ones who dont group themselves with everyone else are the ones you need to keep an eye on. I love this aspect of the battle. If you leave the group and just go trapsing(I have no idea how to spell that, but its a great word) through the woods, you can do serious damage to the other team. You may not win (which I dont bother worrying about in nerf), but you can take some guys out, because they wont expect you to do that. This is what some people would probably call the lone wolf strategy, which is a good name. You dont need to tell your team where you are going, because you will constantly be moving, depending on the enemy movements. This could very well be the best team strategy. An entire team of lone wolves would be fun to be on, but not to fight against. It would be like the viet-cong, you wouldnt know where they go to regroup, you dont want to chase them for fear of ambushes, and they (the wolves) can play off of each other nicely. I know the LCM used to do this. They set ambushes without knowing it.
And yah know why the lone wolf team would work? Because a team of, but not limited to, 4 people can be bitched around by one guy. I dont understand it, they can all rush and at worst one or two would die. Its just the way things work I suppose.
So yeah, this is probably one of my longest posts ever, so I'm gonna stop now.
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#14 Langley

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 01:41 PM

A little off topic: What are the differences between west coast and east coast rules? I thought you counted back in with east coast, and you didn't with west coast.
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#15 VACC

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Posted 08 February 2003 - 02:34 PM

Other way around. The style where there is no pause between hits and therefore every dart that hits you counts, is generally considered east coast style. The style where a player must count back in after each hit is considered west coast style. While these may be misnomers now-a-days, that is what we've always called them.

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