19 replies to this topic

[Oroku Saki]

After putzing around a bit on the internet, I found an article that some of you may find interesting: http://www.commondre...004/1115-06.htm

Perhaps there may be some hope left for this election? The interesting part is that the Libertarians and the Green Party are the ones who are planning to call the recount. Apparently many of the voting machines in Ohio just "accidentally" counted thousands of votes for Bush, although these votes were not properly confirmed. Why can't the polls stick to paper ballots like my area? Also, there have been several other reports of possible voter fraud in Ohio. Looks like this might turn into another Florida after all, except the Dems are not backing it up like they should.

Edited by Oroku_Saki, 16 November 2004 - 02:38 AM.

[AirApache]

How old are you? The election's over, pal. John Kerry admitted his defeat. Don't go around believing every little article that *might* make it so that Kerry should have won. You realize that if this takes place, an organization is going to spend 100k on something hopeless.

It's sad that people try to exploit every possible way to help their candidate (who by the way, took the loss like a man, and I respect him for that), when its obvious that he lost.

[EDIT] k, maybe I was a bit harsh; but the point is, that its definite that Kerry lost so there's no point in staying bitter about it for too long [/EDIT]

Edited by AirApache, 16 November 2004 - 02:40 AM.

[Oroku Saki]

For the record, this is the only article related to after the election I actually posted. The official count won't be finalized for a while anyway. On top of that, I really don't care whether or not this will change the outcome of the election. I thought it was interesting, and I figured some people may be interested in hearing about it. So what if Kerry conceded? He also stated he wants to make sure every vote is counted properly. If there are cases of voter fraud, I think it would be important to investigate them. Electronic voting machines can easily create inaccurate results, further fucking up the election. If Bush is to win, I want to be sure he wins fairly.

[taita cakes]

If Bush is to win, I want to be sure he wins fairly.

Ummmmmmmm. He did. Considerably. Is this the cue to let this thread die or be closed?

[cxwq]

Bush won, no recount is going to change that. Sucks for me, but that's life.

The purpose of the recount is still valid however. There were problems with the voting process in many states. We have 2 years to fix them. Any auditing or recounts will only help with the analysis of the process.

[texmustache]

Yeah, Kerry can't win now. BUT, what bothers me is that there were no major problems on Nov. 2, but many machines had serious problems the entire time of testing. I highly doubt they fixed every bug. And besides, here is my personal conspiracy theory, i think the Rep. pushed for e-voting because there is no paper trail to recount.

EDIT: They did admit only "one" machine gave Bush 4000 extra votes. But how the hell can you miss that in programming the machines?

Edited by texmustache, 16 November 2004 - 01:36 PM.

[Oroku Saki]

The reason why I posted this isn't because of the extremely remote possibility of the outcome changing, which probably won't happen, but to point out that there are some serious problems with the voting systems in our country. A citizen's right to vote should never be infringed, no matter what anyone says. When it comes to vote counting, we should be like Germany, where everyone votes with a paper ballot, and they are all counted by hand. Sure, it may take a while to count the votes and declare a winner, but at least every vote is counted properly, reducing any need for recounts and other potential problems. To enforce this right is worth every penny the Libertarians and Greens are spending on it, and I congratulate them for it.

[okto]

heeeeeeeey fucks!
the electoral college elects the prez! always has, probably always will.
they get to vote their conscience; they are NOT required to vote their constituency.

[Nerfman2222]

Well I have some interesting statistics. In some counties in Ohio more that 100% of registered voter came out and voted. I heard this on Air America Radio. Yes I know its a libral radio station but their not gonna report false facts.In one county 505 registered voters, 1000+ counted votes. In another 13,000 registered voters, 15,000+ counted votes. I can go on and on. There were tons of counties like this.
Thats some scary stuff concidering the man who owns the company who makes the voting machines is republican. Ok yah bull you say right?
Wrong, Lets take a look at Nebraska. Hasn't been a republican senator there in a
d long time. So this republican guy who is president of the voting machine making company sells his voting machines to Nebraska. Next thing you know hes elected Senator.
Ok yes Bush won the electon, Yes Kerry concided, Yes the election is over, but this is some scary stuff.

[Lemmypoo]

Conspiracy theorists! Start your engines!

http://blog.democrats.com/ohio-recount

BWAMMMMMM!

Seriously, almost shit my pants reading this. Not to say we have the Manchurian Candidate in Bush (something I firmly believe, just don't say) but there is something awfully fishy about the American media. Makes me wish the only stations I got were Comedy Central and the BBC :/

[moosenukem]

Hey guys I'm just wondering why is it bad that Bush won?

[cxwq]

This has been addressed, move along please.

Some people believe that he's been a good and honest president and that he's right for this country. They like the fact that he sent 100,000 kids to Iraq to find WMDs that weren't there. These people tend to live in farm country and the bible belt. These people tend to vote, above all, for whichever president hates homosexuals and abortions the most.

Others believe that the president should be honest with us and that he should have an IQ over 100. They don't want a complete fucktard representing us to the world. These people tend to be more educated and live in or near big cities.

Also, to misappropriate a quote, it's apparently not about the economy, stupid.


Biased? You bet.

If anyone hasn't read Keith Olbermann's blog on MSNBC, it's worth a perusal. It's the only mainstream media coverage taking any of the discrepancies seriously.

[Talio]

I'd like to point something out to you all, sorry CX for taking this further.

http://dictionary.re...?q=concede&r=67

He concede, which while it just means he admitted defeat literally, it also means he drops out of the race. So even if the numbers do come up in Kerry's favor, he does not remain to be a candidate. Sorry Kerry fans. I'm going to say which side I'm on because A. This is a nerf board and I don't come here to meet people who have the same political views as I do, and B. It's nobodies damn business who I voted for, but I will say that this election was bad, and Kerry was a big man for stepping down. Nobody put it better:

"But in an American election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans. And that -- that is the greatest privilege and the most remarkable good fortune that can come to us on earth."

Talio.

PS. To all you Kerry supporters. Take his advice:
"I pledge to do my part to try to bridge the partisan divide. I know this is a difficult time for my supporters, but I ask them, all of you, to join me in doing that."

Edited by Talio, 17 November 2004 - 04:41 PM.

[AirApache]

Just cause I'm really busy right now, I won't argue too much. But there are several reasons why Bush is a better candidate than Kerry. Just check out the thread Election 2k4...

[cxwq]

He concede, which while it just means he admitted defeat literally, it also means he drops out of the race.

Actually, not so in this case.

If the electors put in enough votes to make Kerry the president, he becomes the president. His consession was merely an indication that he won't stand behind a protracted court battle over the election results.

Technically, it all comes down to December 13th and who can say "Most of your electors are belong to us."

[Lemmypoo]

He concede, which while it just means he admitted defeat literally, it also means he drops out of the race.

Actually, not so in this case.

If the electors put in enough votes to make Kerry the president, he becomes the president. His consession was merely an indication that he won't stand behind a protracted court battle over the election results.

Technically, it all comes down to December 13th and who can say "Most of your electors are belong to us."

Certainly, I guess he could become president and then stupidly step-down, but I'm sure Edwards would cream himself for the opportunity.

Now this isn't about getting Kerry into office, so let's not change the topic. It's about the possibility we may have had a rigged election, it must be investigated regardless of who was in favor. Not only is it a prime characteristic of totalitarian governments, if there is the slightest chance somebody did not get their voice heard, we should at least do a recount and investigate the suspect machines.

If this were the other way around and Kerry was the assumed next president, and a few of the voting booths had Heinz catsup smeared all over the Bush button, wouldn't you think it would be worth investigating?

[Oroku Saki]

Now this isn't about getting Kerry into office, so let's not change the topic.  It's about the possibility we may have had a rigged election, it must be investigated regardless of who was in favor.  Not only is it a prime characteristic of totalitarian governments, if there is the slightest chance somebody did not get their voice heard, we should at least do a recount and investigate the suspect machines.

The main thing I hate about certain conservatives is the fact that they label people "unpatriotic" if they question the actions of our leadership. Problems with the voting is an extension of that. People's voices need to be heard, and I'll be damned if this country turns into a rigged totalitarian society.

Edited by Oroku_Saki, 18 November 2004 - 01:44 PM.

[AirApache]

It's not unpatriotic to question the actions of leaders. It IS unpatriotic if the only thing they can do about it is make the situation worse.

[Oroku Saki]

Myself, as well as several others on this forum have addressed the problems within the administration. Air Apache, what sort of actions do you think are being done that makes the situation worse?

[AirApache]

Not much, surprisingly. If you ask me, I think the US took the election of Bush much better than I anticipated. I'm actually glad that our forums discuss some politics, so that I can see the opinions of people around the nation (my city is actually quite Republican, even though we're in Wisconsin).