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"homeland Security" Nerf, And The Law

ok to shoot people on your property?

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#1 cerealkiller

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Posted 19 October 2004 - 11:07 PM

In the past five years, my house has been tieped(its that right spelling?), graffied, and egged 3 times at halloween. This year i was planning to do something about it. When its halloween night, im going to sit on my roof with my awsome titan make sure those bastards dont come back next year. but then I realized that shooting them might be illegal. I searched for "illegal" and "legal" without finding the answer to the question. Ive read some articles that cops dont like us shooting civilians, alarming them, or going on private property, but what if they are bugging you, and going on your property? Is it ok to shoot them?
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#2 Inferno

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 12:27 AM

As long as your using a Nerf gun, go for it. I live in Texas and the law may be a bit more "shoot first, ask questions later" here, but my friend's dad had a similar problem and asked the police for advice.

The Story:
For some reason or another, people decided to vandalize their BMW X5 in the middle of the night. By "vandalize", I mean throwing cans of dogfood at the car. That's a new one to me. Who wouldn't be pissed off about that? Anywho, the S.U.V. was damaged with many dents and had the rear window broken. After reporting this to the police, my friend's dad asked the officer filing the report if he could do anything to prevent this and protect his property and family. The officer replied "If they come onto your property and you feel that they are a threat, you can shoot them."
END

So in my opinion, I don't feel that you would be breaking any laws by protecting your property with a Nerf gun. Feel free to shoot them if they try anything. You're not using deadly force or anything, so you should be fine. HAVE FUN!!!
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#3 Fuse

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 07:57 AM

Honestly, if you act like a typical post-9/11 paranoid freak you could probably get away with shooting them with a real gun. You are allowed to use deadly force in any conflict if the other person has a weapon, and you know in the dark those TP rolls can look a lot like WMDs or anthrax bombs.

Seriously tho, as long as you dont hit em in the eye or something I doubt its a problem. The laws vary depending on where you live, and in some states that Titan may even be illegal it self, but if they are on your property and vandalizing it the police are not likely to take their side if you give em a few welts. I'd let them throw at least one roll first tho, just so you are justified.
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#4 merlinski

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 11:21 AM

I'm pretty sure their right not to be shot with a powerful nerf gun ends as soon as they step foot on your property without your permission.
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#5 NinjZ

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 11:41 AM

While I do beleave the laws in most states would permit this, its going to be a very different shit storm if you hit someone in the eye and cause permanent damage. YOU are not of age 18 and YOU do not own the house or property. Even if you do win the case ( since you will probably get sued ) the court and lawyer fees alone will be hefty.

Ask yourself now if that coarse of action seems viable. If you must defend the fort, hide somewhere and jump out when they attack and throw your own eggs.
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#6 the guy who unleashed hell

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 04:56 PM

Either use a nerf gun or bring a hose up with you... you know the rest.
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#7 Dan Wask

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:25 PM

All but ninjz are wrong. It is not legal to injure someone in any fashion wether it be by nerf or by other means. My nieghbors and myself had had the current problem of mailbox smashing. They smash our mail box and post, we put up a new one. Smash that one, put up a new one etc etc... So our nieghbors decided to do something about it. They took a post drill (big ass drill bit and heavy duty impact drill) and put a 1.5 inch solid iron post through the middle of the 8 foot 4x4 wooden post. Thats 4 feet of exposed pole, and 4 feet of pole buried in concrete. Well needless to say, seeing the nice new shiney mailbox the vandels struck again. They swung once at the post and the kid broke his arm. AWESOME ! Right ? Wrong. The little bastard's parents sued for 5,000$ on the cause of injury caused on one's property and won. Even though he was caught commiting a crime of vandilism and destruction of property, because the kid called his parents and got away before the cops arrived, they couldn't press charges on him. So he got to sue. I doubt your parents will like you getting sued even though thier vandilizing your house.

Edited by Dan Wask, 20 October 2004 - 06:26 PM.

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#8 FIDO

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:45 PM

All but ninjz are wrong. It is not legal to injure someone in any fashion wether it be by nerf or by other means. My nieghbors and myself had had the current problem of mailbox smashing. They smash our mail box and post, we put up a new one. Smash that one, put up a new one etc etc... So our nieghbors decided to do something about it. They took a post drill (big ass drill bit and heavy duty impact drill) and put a 1.5 inch solid iron post through the middle of the 8 foot 4x4 wooden post. Thats 4 feet of exposed pole, and 4 feet of pole buried in concrete. Well needless to say, seeing the nice new shiney mailbox the vandels struck again. They swung once at the post and the kid broke his arm. AWESOME ! Right ? Wrong. The little bastard's parents sued for 5,000$ on the cause of injury caused on one's property and won. Even though he was caught commiting a crime of vandilism and destruction of property, because the kid called his parents and got away before the cops arrived, they couldn't press charges on him. So he got to sue. I doubt your parents will like you getting sued even though thier vandilizing your house.

That makes my blood boil. Shouldn't it be the boys fault that he was stupid enough to vandilize it, or whatever he said?
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#9 Bad Karma

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 06:50 PM

If they are on your property then it's fair game. They are intruding and you have a right to get them off...

Shoot'em! It a lot more fun then calling the cops...I'd like for them to explain that to the cops if you do shoot them

"Yes, officer I've been shot by some kid!"

"With what? What kind of injuries have you gotten from it? uh...Nerf gun and I have a welt!"

"BAHAHAH!!!! Go and get your candy lil'boy and stop calling us."
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#10 cxwq

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 07:00 PM

Personally, I'd get a bag of candy corn and a wrist rocket. Now that's poetic justice for Halloween pranksters. But that's illegal too.

If you wanted to stay clean legally but still get back at them, I'd go with the hose suggestion. That's probably legal.

Legally you are not in the clear firing, throwing, lobbing, catapulting, or otherwise launching anything at people unless you are being physically threatened by them. It does not matter if they are on your property. If they were to threaten you, you would need to respond within reasonable force guidelines or you'd be screwed on that count too.

Your proper legal recourse for this sort of thing is to demand that they get off your property and call law enforcement if they refuse.
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#11 cerealkiller

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 07:02 PM

hmmmmmmm... i maybe should stick with the hose on the roof, but if they turn off my then i'll pull out my guns and give them a few welts

Edited by cerealkiller, 20 October 2004 - 07:04 PM.

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#12 rawray7

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 08:20 PM

along the lines of that mailbox story...

so, my neighbors used to always get their trashcans knocked over by these kids who would drive right into them. anyway, after like 3 months of picking up the mess from this, they decided to fill their "Garden Waste" trashcan up with a little more dirt than usual, mind you there were still leaves and garden stuff in there, just a good amount of dirt. anyway, the kid fucked his car up from the impact of the garbage can, and then hitting their curb, and then spinning a little. anyway, to make a long story short, they had to pay for the repairs on that kids car.

i'd suggest that if you are going to shoot them, and you're dead set on shooting them - you let them throw a few things first, then yell, then shoot. if you really want to be bold, make your yell sound like a little girl, so hopefully you'll get a few more shots off, while still being able to truthfully claim to the police that you warned them. or you could just hide in your front yard and slit their throats ninja-style. your choice.
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#13 Fuse

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 08:38 PM

That mailbox story reminds me of a teacher I once had. It should be noted that he was more than a little crazy.

He used to live in a culdesac (sp?), and some asshole liked to just drive in a circle and take out all the mailboxes sometimes. After the third or fourth time he decided he was tired of replacing his mailbox. He got 6' of steel pipe and sank it 3' in the ground, filled it with cement, then put his mailbox on it. A week or so later he was sitting around his house at night and hears a familiar sound of "clunk clunk clunk" as this truck hits the mailboxes. Then, instead of a "clunk", there was more of a "crunch".

The next morning he left for work and there were tire marks all in the gras... Right up to his mailbox. :angry:
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#14 Zyzybalooba

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 09:34 PM

If you want to be sure, talk to someone in the legal system.

I, on the other hand, would just get a quiet Nerf Gun (or you could silence one) and just pick them out from where they can't see you. They would get a sort of "What the hell was that" without being able to catch you. If you have good aim, go for the TP or eggs, no harm in ruining their fun.
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#15 macman

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 09:56 PM

Keep about 10 PCs up on the roof with you... now thats fun.
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#16 Gene-ious

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Posted 20 October 2004 - 10:01 PM

well.. u can always take pictures and report the cops.. but whats the fun in that..
the hose idea is the best one without getting tanged with the cops.
Other than that, try a Airsoft :) titan is too loud, SMALL bullets that are yellow aren't seen as well in the dark), and if they get on ur grass, i can shoot Airsoft BB's and they wont see it because it probably falls in the grass.Aim for eggs, Airsoft can break eggs, i've tried it :D or their hand.. and they will think that they have a sudden hand cramp(if they are stupid enough :angry: )
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#17 J cobbers

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 09:56 AM

Personally, I'd get a bag of candy corn and a wrist rocket. Now that's poetic justice for Halloween pranksters. But that's illegal too.

If you wanted to stay clean legally but still get back at them, I'd go with the hose suggestion. That's probably legal.

Legally you are not in the clear firing, throwing, lobbing, catapulting, or otherwise launching anything at people unless you are being physically threatened by them. It does not matter if they are on your property. If they were to threaten you, you would need to respond within reasonable force guidelines or you'd be screwed on that count too.

Your proper legal recourse for this sort of thing is to demand that they get off your property and call law enforcement if they refuse.

While it varies state to state, defense of Property (land) is usually protected under state criminal laws. Texas being what it is takes this to the extreem that pretty much lets you shoot someone dead for being on your property, but I believe California does not go to this extreem, a "use of reasonable force" is pretty standard. Ask your local law enforcement what rights you have as a property owner, or Try looking on Findlaw.com. I think the 'have a water hose ready' tactic is a better option than a nerf gun; water + cold night = cold soggy pranksters not likely to return. Likewise water leaves no long term evidence, where as a Titan may result in whelts or put someone's eye out. Also no need to reload the hose!

Edited by J_cobbers, 21 October 2004 - 09:59 AM.

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#18 merlinski

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 01:34 PM

While CXWQ is technically right on the criminal justice side of things (ie. it's illegal to shoot someone just for stepping on your property), the real legal question here is one of accountability in a civil suit. There are tons of stories out there about frivilous lawsuits. The worst one I heard was a burgular robbed someone's house when they were away on vacation, but when trying to leave accidentally locked himself in the garage. He subsisted on Pepsi and Dog Food for over a week before the family came home, found him, and called the cops. He sued for psychological damages and won.

I'm of the opinion that in most of these cases, including the ones already mentioned, the family who lost had an exceedingly bad lawyer. I don't see the legal justification for suing someone for trying to knock over their mailbox. Not just the common sense aspect, but look at it legally:
1. He was on their property without their consent or knowledge.
2. He injured himself on an inanimate object. It just as easily could have been him falling off the truck into a tree that happened to be on their property.

Or look at the example of someone hitting a garbage can full of dirt. That could just as easily have been a tree or a garbage can full of trash. Either way, the driver:
1. Got into a single-car accident, all liability is his.
2. Was intentionally trying to hit the can, which is admitting a criminal act.

I find it hard to believe that any halfway-competent lawyer could lose these cases.
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#19 xedice

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Posted 21 October 2004 - 03:38 PM

i would mix up my dog's shit droppings and water and put it in my super soaker and hide in the bushes. You know what happens next.

How would the cops not find that funny and justified?
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#20 Bad Karma

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 07:55 AM

eww....That's really gross...
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