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Size Of Brass Barrel And Dart Size


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#1 danfluidmind

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 01:35 PM

I've noticed that some descriptions suggest 9/16" K&S brass for custom barrels and others suggest 17/32". What I've noticed is that all darts are a little different, even from bag to bag, and some fit one while others fit the other. The first bag of Nerf whistlers I got, for instance, fits quite snug in a 17/32", but very loosly in a 9/16". But some bags of whistlers I got a few days ago don't fit at all into 17/32" and fit very snug in 9/16". What's a modder to do? Anyone have any advice on the best way to make a custom K&S brass barrel? I'm currently modding an AirZone Tek6.

Thanks
--Dan

Edited by danfluidmind, 10 September 2004 - 01:36 PM.

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#2 agent007

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 01:50 PM

Dont waste your time onmthe teks. they are terrible. The only good thing about the gun is the rate of fire.
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#3 danfluidmind

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 02:17 PM

Dont waste your time onmthe teks. they are terrible. The only good thing about the gun is the rate of fire.

Thanks for the advice. But I still need to know the answer to the question, as there are other blasters I want to modify.

--Dan
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#4 cxwq

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 02:23 PM

This only applies to homemade stefan darts, but what I've always advocated is buying more FBR that you will ever need in your nerfing lifetime before you mod your guns. I bought 900' and measured it at several points along the roll. Turns out that my 1/2" FBR runs between 32/64 and 33/64 so 9/16" K&S brass (17/32" ID) is a nice sliding fit and 17/32" K&S (1/2" ID) is a snug fit that compresses the dart slightly.

As you can see in my mods, I use one or both of these, depending on what is needed for a given gun.
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#5 Airsoft999

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 03:14 PM

Yes. Make stefans. Much rasier and cheaper. Stefans are approx. $0.05 each. Stock Darts are 50 cents each. Stefans are much better, too. If you are using stock darts, don't use brass, use 1/2 inch SCH40 PVC. Then push the dart all the way down the barrel.
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#6 danfluidmind

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 03:54 PM

If you are using stock darts, don't use brass, use 1/2 inch SCH40 PVC. Then push the dart all the way down the barrel.

But the 1/2" SCH40 PVC is a LOT wider than the stock darts. Won't that let too much air go around the sides of the darts?
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#7 Airsoft999

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 04:11 PM

:wacko:
NO. The fit is perfectly. Think about it. The seal between the suction and pipe is perfect... shove the whole dart, not just the foam into the barrel. Yes, even the Suction cup.
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#8 Vintage

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 06:55 PM

My best method for getting darts to fit in my modified guns is to bring a dart that is the size I want to the store. I compare it to the rolls of FBR (You could compare a whistling dart to the bags at the store) and pick one that best matches the dart I have. It's the best I can come up with, because I modded almost all of my guns, and don't have a large supply of foam.

NO. The fit is perfectly. Think about it. The seal between the suction and pipe is perfect... shove the whole dart, not just the foam into the barrel. Yes, even the Suction cup.

Actually, I have found brass, or brass in PVC, to work much better than PVC alone. Brass can constrict the foam part of the dart, giving a better pop to the shot. Granted, you can't have as long a barrel when you use brass and stock darts, but you get more power. Putting PVC over the brass helps to support the brass, as well as give you more accuracy.

~Vintage

Edited by Vintage, 10 September 2004 - 06:58 PM.

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#9 danfluidmind

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 07:52 PM

^_^
NO. The fit is perfectly. Think about it. The seal between the suction and pipe is perfect... shove the whole dart, not just the foam into the barrel. Yes, even the Suction cup.

Ah, I gotchya. So if you want to use stefan darts you don't want to use just a 12" PVC barrel because that would only work with stock darts. Is that right? And if you want to use ONLY stephan darts, the best thing would be to use a shorter piece of 17/32" brass inside a longer piece of 9/16" brass (assuming you're using 1/2" FBR)? Is that right?

But what if you want to be able to use BOTH stefan darts AND stock darts in your gun?


Thanks
--Dan
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#10 AirApache

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 07:58 PM

You can use stock micros and micro stefans in the same barrel, and you can also use stock megas and mega stefans (if you make them, most people don't) in the same barrel.
Another thing you might want to decide on is CPVC. It normally isn't compatible with all guns, but as THIRST has done a good job disproving that. CPVC is great because it's cheaper than brass, and is a little more workable. The downside: you have to dremel the inside of the barrel to make it fit micros, or you have to thin out your darts (which is tedious and not always accurate).

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#11 LiKnSmAkScOmIn

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 08:15 PM

Pump guns will just use a single tube of 9/16" brass.Spring powered guns will use a 9/16" barrel and a small bit of 17/32" brass at the end to let pressure build up before the dart goes out of the barrel.

Also,Stock darts will work in brass guns, but only at the very top of the barre;, or else you'll have to cut the protruding plastic sides on micro darts.
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#12 Fuse

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Posted 11 September 2004 - 10:40 PM

I don't want to hijack here, but I'm a bit rusty on the nerf news and since this is a barrel topic I figured it would be ok to ask here.

What happened to PVC? I only see it used to reinforce weaker brass and PETG nowadays, even on plunger guns. I understand the advantage of brass and PETG having lower friction, but last I knew the theory was that the added friction of the PVC as opposed to brass on a plunger gun was that since the plunger takes longer to release all its air then the PVC would hold the dart longer and allow for the pressure to build up better before setting the dart in motion. It was believed that letting the friction keep the pressure building a bit longer would increase the range better than a slick brass barrel (we didnt have PETG back then).

Has this been disproven or something? I was just wondering. I feel like an old geezer trying to program a new VCR or something.
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#13 AirApache

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 12:07 AM

1/2" PVC still works great for nerf megas, but we're using micros now because they go farther. A disad for PVC is its heaviness, which is why more and more mods are done with just brass or PETG. But the manual turn guns, like the sm1500 still uses 1/2" PVC reinforcing, also because it fits the coverslide for the barrels nicely. To increase pressure, were using smaller sized brass to hold the dart longer, instead of using the whole barrel to create friction. Other than that, I don't really know the explanation.
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#14 cxwq

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 01:55 AM

1/2" PVC still works great for nerf megas

Minor correction: 1/2" PVC still works great for nerf micros or stefan megas.

Fuse, the main thing that has changed since the PVC days is that most people back then were using nerf micros and mega (5/8") stefans. The aerodynamic advantage of using 1/2" stefans drove us to find materials that would fit the smaller darts. Both PETG (the stuff Iron Rhino sells which I bought from Sinclair-Rush (Visipak)) and 9/16" (OD) K&S brass tubing are slightly over 1/2" ID and work great for typical 1/2" micro stefans. The variety of materials being used these days is primarily because of slightly differing FBR sizes and because people are taking advantage of differing characteristics of different guns.

I wrote MOD 401 - Darts and Barrels several years ago for Nerf Online, but it's still useful for understanding the reasoning behind all these changes. When that was written, every mod writeup online used either PVC or crayola barrels except for my first couple brass mods which I'd just posted.

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#15 AirApache

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 06:54 PM

Oops, didn't see that. I was thinking about stefans...ah well.

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#16 danfluidmind

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Posted 13 September 2004 - 08:09 AM

Thanks a lot for all your great answers, everybody. That helps a lot.

--Dan
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